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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Scenario Design and Modding >> Tech infos

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Tech infos - 3/2/2011 1:14:33 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
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I noticed the you can choose any planes to start investing, but what about early proto-types, most players would simply skip the early versions and pick out the best one for there needs.

We need to redo the techs and add more options during the warfare in WitP:AE. When you mouse over the bases that have factories that making aircrafts from the start (grand campaign) both Japanese and Allies, seen many models are missing.

Unfort you cant put much efforts into later design without investing the early proto-types first. This would make Techs more realistic and interesting during the war. Even if you have capture enemy crafts, should be able to study it and possible getting ideas as well increases R&D.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 3/2/2011 1:17:17 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 2:39:01 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline

I wasnt sure if i can change it (not while playing it) and how the AIs handle it too? Was going to put them in proper places where they actual being built. Infact US shouldnt have that much aircraft production that high after Pearl was hit, after FDR declared war on Empire of Japan, things started to change in US and it slowly build up and it does take time.

(in reply to Rising-Sun)

Post #: 2

RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 3:56:46 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I wasnt sure if i can change it (not while playing it) and how the AIs handle it too? Was going to put them in proper places where they actual being built. Infact US shouldnt have that much aircraft production that high after Pearl was hit, after FDR declared war on Empire of Japan, things started to change in US and it slowly build up and it does take time.

Allies have no control over production. They get what they get when they are supposed to get it. The only reason for on map Allied A/C factories is so that they can be attacked and damaged if the IJN player wishes to do so...since the West Coast, India, and Australia are reachable with Carriers or LBA (in some cases).

Most Allied A/C simply arrive on map according to their settings. That is if the production rate is 30 for a plane without a factory on the map, you get 1 plane per day (30/month).

The only thing you can do for Allied planes is start the actual on map factories damaged, which will allow them to repair up. As far as the 'magical injection' aircraft go, there is no way to ramp it up. I believe the game is designed so that the proper number of A/C will be produced over time...which means a few too many early, but too few towards the end of the model's production.

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'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Rising-Sun)

Post #: 3

RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 4:09:31 PM

vettim89

Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I wasnt sure if i can change it (not while playing it) and how the AIs handle it too? Was going to put them in proper places where they actual being built. Infact US shouldnt have that much aircraft production that high after Pearl was hit, after FDR declared war on Empire of Japan, things started to change in US and it slowly build up and it does take time.

Allies have no control over production. They get what they get when they are supposed to get it. The only reason for on map Allied A/C factories is so that they can be attacked and damaged if the IJN player wishes to do so...since the West Coast, India, and Australia are reachable with Carriers or LBA (in some cases).

Most Allied A/C simply arrive on map according to their settings. That is if the production rate is 30 for a plane without a factory on the map, you get 1 plane per day (30/month).

The only thing you can do for Allied planes is start the actual on map factories damaged, which will allow them to repair up. As far as the 'magical injection' aircraft go, there is no way to ramp it up. I believe the game is designed so that the proper number of A/C will be produced over time...which means a few too many early, but too few towards the end of the model's production.

This would actually go for both sides when you think about it. Any a/c is going to have some "teething" issues. That goes for performance as well as production. Henry Ford was actually being investigated for war profiteering for the debacle that was the Willow Run B-24 plant (dubbed "Will It Run" by the press). Then they hit they sweet spot and were cranking out a brand new Liberator every hour in 1944. That said, Grumman plant #2 at bethpage was built just for F6F prduction and pretty much hit the ground running when it went into operation

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(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 4

RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 4:43:06 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I wasnt sure if i can change it (not while playing it) and how the AIs handle it too? Was going to put them in proper places where they actual being built. Infact US shouldnt have that much aircraft production that high after Pearl was hit, after FDR declared war on Empire of Japan, things started to change in US and it slowly build up and it does take time.

Allies have no control over production. They get what they get when they are supposed to get it. The only reason for on map Allied A/C factories is so that they can be attacked and damaged if the IJN player wishes to do so...since the West Coast, India, and Australia are reachable with Carriers or LBA (in some cases).

Most Allied A/C simply arrive on map according to their settings. That is if the production rate is 30 for a plane without a factory on the map, you get 1 plane per day (30/month).

The only thing you can do for Allied planes is start the actual on map factories damaged, which will allow them to repair up. As far as the 'magical injection' aircraft go, there is no way to ramp it up. I believe the game is designed so that the proper number of A/C will be produced over time...which means a few too many early, but too few towards the end of the model's production.

This would actually go for both sides when you think about it. Any a/c is going to have some "teething" issues. That goes for performance as well as production. Henry Ford was actually being investigated for war profiteering for the debacle that was the Willow Run B-24 plant (dubbed "Will It Run" by the press). Then they hit they sweet spot and were cranking out a brand new Liberator every hour in 1944. That said, Grumman plant #2 at bethpage was built just for F6F prduction and pretty much hit the ground running when it went into operation

But the IJN player already has the teething issues with the R&D facilities and the change of A/C damages the factory (or at least it used to, did that change?).

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to vettim89)

Post #: 5

RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 4:50:22 PM

Ken Estes

Posts: 125
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Seattle
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I wasnt sure if i can change it (not while playing it) and how the AIs handle it too? Was going to put them in proper places where they actual being built. Infact US shouldnt have that much aircraft production that high after Pearl was hit, after FDR declared war on Empire of Japan, things started to change in US and it slowly build up and it does take time.

The real push for the US began with the fall of France, June 1940, not PH: the National Emergency programs begun then account for the US production being better in 1942. By PH, the Victory Fleet is already under construction aircraft programs underway and a million men of the guard and reserve remain mobilized, albeit by scarcely a vote or two in mid-1941.

<ahem> War is declared by act of Congress, back in those old days. These days, it only takes a president.....

Cheers, Ken

(in reply to Rising-Sun)

Post #: 6

RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 5:26:18 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline

I can understand that, but most plants and factories are missing since we cant see mid/eastern part of USA. But what bother me the most is not having early protypes before getting into later series of aircrafts (which it was much better performance).

Im gonna wait til there another wargame like this one in the pacific with better results, maybe better combat views like in 3D, that what i really wanted. Only closest games i can find is HoI Series and Pacific Storm, PS wasnt that good and still needed alot of improvements.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 3/3/2011 5:27:36 PM >

(in reply to Ken Estes)

Post #: 7

RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 5:44:04 PM

Erkki

Posts: 1461
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I can understand that, but most plants and factories are missing since we cant see mid/eastern part of USA. But what bother me the most is not having early protypes before getting into later series of aircrafts (which it was much better performance).

Im gonna wait til there another wargame like this one in the pacific with better results, maybe better combat views like in 3D, that what i really wanted. Only closest games i can find is HoI Series and Pacific Storm, PS wasnt that good and still needed alot of improvements.

Early prototypes... They were used for testing, evaluation, R&D etc. You'd only get a dozen of them, at best, per model. They were not used for combat, one of the very few exceptions being the He 219...

Btw there is an evaluation/operational test squad flying Ki-44s in the beginning of the war.

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RE: Tech infos - 3/3/2011 6:45:29 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline

Well i dont want to spend too much time playing this game again, its alot of timing and complex. I like it, but missing some key elements of the game/warfare. What they need to do is remove those aircraft listing when you mouse over their bases, shouldnt show unless you recon that base. Those aircraft productions should be secrets! Sooner or later they will find out once doing recon over that areas.

What would help most is R&D screen and do it in order, without skipping other series or weaker models.

Also noticed that alot of P-51D as well other series, shouldnt be there. P-51 didnt come thru with protypes around 1940 and P-51D didnt have til 1944. I know very few can be drawn in, but without having proper R&Ds with early models, these models wouldnt have exists. That goes for japanese aircrafts as well. If we cant build what we want to build, why put those aircrafts on statics that you get what come in from the assemlby lines and you cant change it. Time to time, they can change the models to better series during the timeline of the war.

I have huge collection on American Naval Warship from 1800s to 1979, 8 volumes. They are rare and hard to find, its mention every ships in USN and capt, crews, sails, weapon layouts, etcs. I found some ships on the later runs, that not suppose to be in USN. They were transfer to British Navy. I dont want to bring up all those ships, would be alot of research and time.

This game doesnt feel right, i did like the ol' Gary Grisby Pacific War back in 1990s, and loves that Warship too, both from SSG.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 3/3/2011 6:48:05 PM >

(in reply to Erkki)

Post #: 9

RE: Tech infos - 3/7/2011 7:18:50 PM

dwg

Posts: 319
Joined: 1/22/2008
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quote:

Also noticed that alot of P-51D as well other series, shouldnt be there. P-51 didnt come thru with protypes around 1940 and P-51D didnt have til 1944. I know very few can be drawn in, but without having proper R&Ds with early models, these models wouldnt have exists.

There's development and there's development. Some projects ran on for years through multiple variants trying to get a decent production model that a service crew and/or groundcrews could handle, the He 177 and the Firebrand being perhaps the classic examples*. Others were right first time, the Mustang being pretty much an example of that. Even the re-engining that transformed it from merely capable to superb was straightforward. It's very difficult to model this kind of varying level of problems/difficulty/whatever at the level of abstraction WITP functions at. A lot of the development problems experienced by British aircraft, for instance, simply came down to a shortage of drawing office staff, perfectly good aircraft were abandoned because we simply didn't have the people available to do the detailed design. If the customisability of the game allows you to pick and choose between aircraft to develop or not, is it all that different to push a few hundred men (and women, CC&F's Elsie MacGill being graphic evidence of the untapped potential there) down a different career path?

A further problem with aircraft development is that it doesn't go A to B to C, it wanders all over the map, drawing in ideas from other projects and reacting to new demands as they arise. Look at the Spitfire, there are at least 7 different development lines wrapped into that one aircraft (Merlin, Griffin, fighter, strategic PR birds, Seafire, contraprop and Spiteful) all interacting with each other in parallel and combining in different ways to throw out different variants that in turn depended on several different variants having gone before them. Then there's the derivative projects that are easier than being done from scratch because they borrow technology or aerodynamics from an earlier aircraft, DH Mosquito/Hornet, Manchester/Lancster and Blenheim/Beaufort/Beaufighter/Beaumont/Buckingham/Buckmaster/Brigand being the classic examples here.

Whatever level of model you choose to build the game around, it's always going to be possible to build another level of detail into it. And there's always going to be people who think you should have done precisely that.

* Mentioning Firebrand reminds me of a question that I haven't turned up an answer to. The later variants are notorious for tricky handling, but was that also true of the 1942 Firebrand F.1 before they decided to drop it as an interceptor due to shortage of Sabres and make it into a Centaurus engined strike/torpedo fighter? None of the references I have to hand seem to talk specifically about the performance of the F.1, while they're very specific about the later variants being dogs. Anyone know?

(in reply to Rising-Sun)

Post #: 10