Gallo Rojo
Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000 From: Argentina Status: offline
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo [B] The reason why Germany and the US are usually modeled with most care is simply the fact,[/B][/QUOTE] … So we are agree about that German and US OOBs are most carefully modeled than those of USSR … :D :D … Great… let’s continue … [QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo [B] that it's easy to get good information on them - on German material even better then on US gear - just try to find something on the net...[/B][/QUOTE] Yes, I guess that it could be very difficult to get good information from the other side of the “iron curtain” ... particulary now that we are in 1970 and we are looking for the plans of the SS-20 missiles! :rolleyes: :D :D Sorry about the sarcasm :) I didn’t want to be rude, honestly, I just couldn’t resist … Look, I’m not talking only about OOB (sorry I get out of the topic, which was H2H and the 76.2mm gun) How many MC have been realized? Three: Two from the German perspective, one from USMC perspective. Any Soviet one? Nop! Regular campaigns organically included in the game (namely that they come with MC CD if you buy it): US Army/USMC: Preparing the Way; From Utah to the Rinh; The Victors; Tulagi: The First Offensive; Guadalcanal = 6 (I’m not counting “Long road to Victory” Because is a combination of the first trhee). Germany: Watch Word Freedom; Stalingrad; Romel to the Rescue = 3 USSR: Heroes of the Motherland = 1 United Kingdom: Normandy Gold = 1 Japan: Zero! (no, not a campaign about the famous fighter :D just not a one single campaign …) How many data do you need to collect to design a fun campaign? … Not much! I have the story board for a Stalingrad Soviet side campaign based upon Rodmistrev XIII Rifle Guards division … And didn’t take me to long … I design a story board for Saturn & Uranus operations that will be used in “Russian Steel” Campaign (I didn’t include this one in the list because is a “private initiative”), and wasn’t so hard … And I have another story board for German Invasion to France in 1940 … What I have not is time to design them … but is easy to get good data for a Soviet side campaign … but there was only one designed … Regarding the OOB … you know … you don’t need to much data to put a T-34/57 in the game (ok, there were very few of these … but there were more than the Maus … and more than Panther Huh –a unit that, by the way, as far as I know, needed a weak HT equipped with the infra red vision device to operate … but it’s not the case in the game! All you need is the Panther!) … you don’t need to much research to include some Guards Heavy Tanks! (the fact that you included them in your version is one of the things that I like most about H2H) … you don’t need to know much about soviet army to not link tank-desant troops to a only single type of MBT (a particularly crap one, for the worst). [QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo [B] I would have loved to have a Russian with some knowledge on WWII working on better OOBs, but I don't know a single one...[/B][/QUOTE] May be you have a point here. Let’s analyze this a little bit … Firstly … probably there is a linguistic barrier. Second, I knew one. I don’t know how deep was his knowledge about WWII, but he was a SPWAW fan. I played a couple of PBEM with him (he was dam good) … the guy run out of the Game when 7.0 comes out … totally pissed of about how Russian tanks had been modeled in this version (you probably remember those bitter discussions when 7.0) … and that wasn’t the first time that he had felt that Russian were “the duck of the wedding” in SPWAW (I don’t know if this expression exist in English … it means that you have been invited to a wedding, but only because it suppose that you are dinner). Any way … you’re right … there aren’t to much Russian players out there … but may be there could be a few more if Russian SPWaW’s were a little more “nicer” than they are. So the question is: Are the Russians OOB not that cared than American or Geman’s ones because there are few (or none) Russians helping … or Are few Russians helping because they feel that may be they are not very welcome? Same thing is applicable to Japanese. To sum up … I have no doubt that if there were 20 or 30 Russians regularly posting at the forum and interested on the game (as there are Americans and Germans and other Nations (Finnish for example)) … well, the Russian OOB should be much better than it is and we had much more Soviet side campaigns. But not only because of that they were helping, but also because they were potential buyers! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Panzer Leo [B] so US and German units are definetely modeled the best, although I tried to get rid of rare German units in the German OOB in H2H - you will not find the Maus or Sturmtiger available for normal purchase, along with many other things that got thrown out...it was one of the things I tried to care most of, to get more historical setups for German troops... [/B][/QUOTE] I know that you did … I have a big respect for your version. Now … look … I’ll tell you which is my opinion: I have no problem with the Germans having the Mousse or the SturmTiger or whatever (except probably for the Panther Huh, since it gives an unfair advantage –it wont give it if it were very very expensive and needed to be escorted by a Half-truck). When I have problems is when Germans and Americans have those toys … and Russians do not have the T-34/57 … 57mm ATG is not available until late 43 while it was in Soviet arsenal since 41 (although in very short numbers, I now, but there were more 57mm than Mausse tanks, by the sure) … tankodesantikys can only be attached to one single MBT …. And I could go and go and go … My general feeling is that there are certain nations that are better treated than others. And is not just my opinion (I now a lot of friends that were big SPWaW fans and run out of the game because of this). And I give you another example but not related with the Russians: now a lot of players who I respect that are in the opinion that is almost impossible to beat the Americans … I don’t play too much in the western front, so I can not affirm it by my self … I think that you probably agree in this point (or at least in that they should be modeled in other way), since in your version American’s have a very different experience and leader rankings than they have in SPWaW 7.1 Now … SPWaW is a free game. I now that Matrix team dedicates a lot of time on it. I really respect that. And I really enjoy the game and (although all I have said) I’m a big fan. And I’m not saying that they consciously gives little care to Soviet OOB “just because…” … I think that they do because most of the people push for the Americans and the Germans, because they are the nations that most of the people like to play with … but … you know … But, just as Gorgias pointed above, I’m worry about Combat Leader …. I mean … My favorites nations to play are Soviet Union, United Kingdom (which wont be included in CL) and Germany (which I have no doubt that will be very well cared in CL) … now … I can live with a not-that-good Soviet OOB in a free game like SPWaW … but … Will I pay 65 + shipping US Dollars (which is A LOT of money for me) jut to be “the duck of the wedding”? I doubt it. Any way … sorry about this long speech ... This pots is about H2H, and I finished talking about v7.1 and Combat Leader … It’s obvious that what I should do is post this in Combat Leader Forum. And that’s what I’ll do… Best, Gallo
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