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Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 5:54:17 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		Interesting article on what works and what doesn't.

"Ask him what he means....

"Agree with him (but use a softer language)....

"And eventually negotiate a common ground."

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
Post #: 1
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 7:43:47 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

Interesting article on what works and what doesn't ...


I edit two controversial websites on Topix and IMO, I don't think any of these suggestions will work with "career" trolls.




_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 2
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 8:05:12 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		I have tried all three of those techniques on this forum. How do you think I got this Sigbanner nickname and banner (Thanks to USS America and Dixie)? I've also received many warnings , hate mail and threats. Those 3 suggestions might work for some people , but when I used them they simply enraged the trolls. And the one thing nastier than a troll is an enraged troll!

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(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 3
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 8:11:16 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

Interesting article on what works and what doesn't ...


I edit two controversial websites on Topix and IMO, I don't think any of these suggestions will work with "career" trolls.





nope. only sure fire way (besides banning) is to not feed the troll. Unfortunately in the case of this board's career troll....at least one person always ends up taking the bait....usually out of ignorance. As Mynok has said repeatedly.....green button is your friend.


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(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 4
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 8:48:29 PM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		I agree the green button is your friend.  Some of the trolls I've seen don't care anything about common ground.  Even if you adapt there position they will change it to something else  just because they will never allow common ground.  I've met a few folks who really do enjoy hostility and no matter how you attempt to find common ground they will have no part of it.  Not to mention the I'm right and your wrong and I will not allow discussion types.


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Post #: 5
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 9:04:19 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		When I was at TRW, we had a guy in Accounting who enjoyed negotiating. He'd always try to get away with something outrageous on his federal tax return--not because he expected to win the argument outright, but because he figured he'd come out ahead in the negotiations. I guess he was the troll in accounting. So some people enjoy it. I don't.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to pmelheck1)
Post #: 6
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 9:07:16 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I have tried all three of those techniques on this forum. How do you think I got this Sigbanner nickname and banner (Thanks to USS America and Dixie)? I've also received many warnings , hate mail and threats. Those 3 suggestions might work for some people , but when I used them they simply enraged the trolls. And the one thing nastier than a troll is an enraged troll!


Steve,
Your efforts may not work, but we appreciate them anyway.

_____________________________

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 7
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 9:29:33 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I have tried all three of those techniques on this forum. How do you think I got this Sigbanner nickname and banner (Thanks to USS America and Dixie)? I've also received many warnings , hate mail and threats. Those 3 suggestions might work for some people , but when I used them they simply enraged the trolls. And the one thing nastier than a troll is an enraged troll!


Steve,
Your efforts may not work, but we appreciate them anyway.


+1

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 8
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 9:51:52 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Just remember that it is estimated that one in every ten human beings is "disturbed" or has some sort of pychological issues. It is inevitiable then that some of them are going to post on forums.

I spent ten year in the Seafarers Union and there are crazy guys out there in spades.

There is only one rule to remember when dealing with crazy, and that is "that you don't f**K with crazy."

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 9
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 10:20:38 PM   
vonTirpitz


Posts: 511
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Wilmington, NC
Status: offline 		I whipped this up a few months back but never had a good chance to use it.

Feel free to reuse as you see fit...




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 10
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 10:22:14 PM   
SargeantTex


Posts: 420
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Thats why political chat of an inflammatory nature has no business on this forum they have forums specifically for political debate and they have forums for alternate history debates but trolls will try to ruin any forum just to get a rise out of people for their own satisfaction!!! I troll but I troll the appropriate forums not forums for people just enjoying the greatest computer game ever designed!!

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 11
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 10:26:21 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Some people need to knock other people off balance to feel balanced themselves.  There are many ways of doing it and different people do different things.  For some of those who need it, if they can brew up a lot of trouble and get other people riled up, they will then feel better about themselves.  The internet has enabled these people to take out their destabilizing needs among people they have never met.

I've administered a mailing list for more than 12 years and the list has been around since 1993.  At one time it seemed like there were trolls showing up every month or so.  Some were coming over from another mailing list with the intent to cause trouble and go back to their mailing list and brag about their exploits.

The old timers learned the signs of a troll and circled the wagons whenever one showed up.  The list got a reputation of being a dull place for trolling and the trolls gave up.  Being reasonable with them is the first line of defense.  If they are determined to cause trouble, rather than just be heard or just upset, they will continue.  At that point, someone needs to name the game and then everyone else shuns them.  It usually works fairly well.  Trolling is very dull when nobody is willing to play along.

Bill


_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 12
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 10:32:00 PM   
SargeantTex


Posts: 420
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		plus simply ignoring them seems the fastest way to get rid of them banning doesnt work they just get a different username. everynow and then especially after about 4 beers I get the urge to feed the trolls and the political forums are the best bet they are not hard to spot they bite the first bait you throw as long as you keep responding they will troll.

(in reply to SargeantTex)
Post #: 13
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 11:09:28 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I have tried all three of those techniques on this forum. How do you think I got this Sigbanner nickname and banner (Thanks to USS America and Dixie)? I've also received many warnings , hate mail and threats. Those 3 suggestions might work for some people , but when I used them they simply enraged the trolls. And the one thing nastier than a troll is an enraged troll!


Steve,
Your efforts may not work, but we appreciate them anyway.


Many thanks!


_____________________________


(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 14
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 11:09:52 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I have tried all three of those techniques on this forum. How do you think I got this Sigbanner nickname and banner (Thanks to USS America and Dixie)? I've also received many warnings , hate mail and threats. Those 3 suggestions might work for some people , but when I used them they simply enraged the trolls. And the one thing nastier than a troll is an enraged troll!


Steve,
Your efforts may not work, but we appreciate them anyway.


+1



And thank you too!

_____________________________


(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 15
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/7/2011 11:53:55 PM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I've never really minded the trolls, they can add some amusement to the forums. The damage, imho, is done by the people who respond to the trolls anyways.

A useful and interesting thread can remain useful and interesting even vs the worst troll. What wrecks the thread is the people who feed them. Thread + 1 troll and everythings fine. Thread +1 troll and 2 excitable noobs responding to the troll and the thread is off base, ruined, and up to 20 pages of garbage in a matter of moments.

The trolls would have no impact if nobody paid them attention. So really I retain my disdain for the people who should know better and yet inevitably feed the trolls and ruin forums.

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 16
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 2:46:47 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
So, if I understand. What trolls do is troll for trouble and the best way to deal with a trolling troll is ignoring.

(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 17
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 3:30:42 AM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline 		Yeah.  You can't nuke 'em.  Too bad.

_____________________________

Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 18
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 4:36:52 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I like to take them out with my Rapier +3, The Weeping Blade...  oops! Sorry, wrong game... 

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 19
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 9:28:01 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Yeah.  You can't nuke 'em.  Too bad.


Check this out.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 20
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 1:30:36 PM   
Satansbraten

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 7/27/2009
Status: offline 		Reading the article and the comments posted beneath it my impression is that "The Troll" does not exist. The article itself has a very interesting link to Wikipedia (the "List of fallacies"), which was also a new article to me.
When reading this long list I think it shows you will never meet all those "criterias" (i.e. avoiding the fallacies). And I think you shouldn't do so anyway.

This in turn reminds me about an article I did know before, described in this Wikipedia entry. It's an old philosophical concept describing that you can't be "wrong" or "right" (occupying an objective point of view), because you can not provide proof for your argument.

All discussions show connection to this trilemma, or even could be regarded as actual incarnations of it (including this thread and my posting). When having this in mind, most of the time I find it easier to "deal" with "trolls". Everyone has his/her own mindset. Arguments tend to be endless, until someone drops out. If the "troll" does not hurt or offend people, pays attention to posting rules, etc. then everything should be "fine" (whatever that means ). If not, it will eventually mean banning ("recognize power" as someone called it over there).

Nobody is forced to engage into discussions (with "trolls"). Being a missionary is a hard job these days. So, if you are wondering: this is a scnr posting .

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 21
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 1:49:38 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Yeah.  You can't nuke 'em.  Too bad.


Check this out.

Funny. Reminds me of the "Bastard Operator From Hell" stuff that was popular 20 years ago, or so. If you guys don't know what I'm talking about Google it and read the first fifteen, or so, episodes.

_____________________________

Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 22
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 1:50:38 PM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

Interesting article on what works and what doesn't.

"Ask him what he means....

"Agree with him (but use a softer language)....

"And eventually negotiate a common ground."


Try to catch them out when the sun comes up, they will turn to stone.

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 23
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 2:27:07 PM   
d0mbo

 

Posts: 592
Joined: 8/21/2009
From: Holland
Status: offline 		I disagree with everything that is said in this thread. You guys are wrong.



(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 24
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 2:48:04 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

I disagree with everything that is said in this thread. You guys are wrong.





Special pleading?

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to d0mbo)
Post #: 25
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 2:54:42 PM   
sven


Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SargeantTex

Thats why political chat of an inflammatory nature has no business on this forum they have forums specifically for political debate and they have forums for alternate history debates but trolls will try to ruin any forum just to get a rise out of people for their own satisfaction!!! I troll but I troll the appropriate forums not forums for people just enjoying the greatest computer game ever designed!!



Agreed, matrix once had a political forum called 'the art of wargaming' that was yanked because it was not the image of what matrix had in mind.

Our hobby is dying a little more each year because the younger kids don't enjoy turn-based tac/strat and fewer companies support our hobby all the time.

So now that we have 'ran off the political flamethrowers' as it were, we now are faced with self-appointed forum cops who are rude to people who are just visiting the community as a first stroke.

Unneeded, and even more lamentable when the person is arguably "staff".

_____________________________


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Post #: 26
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 3:11:05 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Yeah.  You can't nuke 'em.  Too bad.


Check this out.

Funny. Reminds me of the "Bastard Operator From Hell" stuff that was popular 20 years ago, or so. If you guys don't know what I'm talking about Google it and read the first fifteen, or so, episodes.


BofH is still around

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 27
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 3:17:01 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Talking about trolls attracts trolls.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 28
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 3:20:46 PM   
sven


Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Talking about trolls attracts trolls.



If you say so.

This troll at least has the restraint to keep among its own kind when trolling unlike our protected friend.

_____________________________


(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 29
RE: Dealing with the Trolls - 3/8/2011 7:43:06 PM   
dorjun driver


Posts: 641
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Port Townsend: hex 210,51
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

I disagree with everything that is said in this thread. You guys are wrong.





I see what you did there.

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x - ACM
x - AES
Current - Bum



The paths of glory may lead you to the grave, but the paths of duty may not get you anywhere.
JT

(in reply to d0mbo)
Post #: 30
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