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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 12:52:09 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zace

What the F guys.....

If you have never built a system just do it. I am sure several people here can talk you through it no problem at all.

The one I have now was build last april or so. basically top of the line or one step down on everything. Including the computer, case (ANTEC makes the best gaming cases ever and the ps on the bottom and vront to back flow channels mean great air flow), and 52" plasma monitor I came in about 2gs. The monitor (read Hidef TV) is a grand alone so the computer was only about 1k.

Are you totally against building one?

It really is much cheaper for gaming pcs (office pcs there are some low margin vendors but for the newer chipsets, CPUs, etc you do save by building your own).

Not calling BS, but can you point to anyplace where a case, mobo, 1000W PS, 4-6 gigs of gaming RAM, a 4-core AMD or Intel CPU, cooling, a 1TB HD, and a SOTA graphic card (even one) retails for $1000? That's before OS and associated trim.

Tom's Hardware site, which has been around for ages and is highly repsected, speced out a Digital Storm PC and built one with the exact same parts bought through mail-order. The exact same box. It was $250 lower than DS's price, before Tom's labor, with no warranty and no tech support.

I could build a business PC. I've done drives, replaced fans, added RAM, built partitions, etc. But a gaming box is a whole different animal. There's no way I'd try to install liquid cooling for example. Once upon a time gaming boxes WERE business computers, but not anymore. And before I risk leaivng $3000-4000 worth of components in a heap on the table I'll pay a company with real engineers to take the risk for me, and let me send it back for a refund if they screw up.

My dad built cat's whisker radios when he was a kid. Today, not so much. Times change, technology gets more complicated. Risks and costs of being wrong increase.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/9/2011 12:53:51 PM >

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 3:47:50 PM

Nikademus

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From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

[Not calling BS, but can you point to anyplace where a case, mobo, 1000W PS, 4-6 gigs of gaming RAM, a 4-core AMD or Intel CPU, cooling, a 1TB HD, and a SOTA graphic card (even one) retails for $1000? That's before OS and associated trim.

its doable, but if not building, your going to have to go big name brand selling out of a wholesale warehouse like Costco.

As a cost savings exercise, i rebuilt my X's dad's Celeron computer into a modern machine. Minimum requirement was: better than AMD Athlon64 as that was what his laptop used.

Total cost ended up being $318.00

Gigabyte MOB supporting up to 4GB DDR2 or 3 RAM, onboard ATI Radeon graphics and Intel 5.1 sound.

AMD Athlon 2 3.0GHz duo core.
4 GB DDR2 RAM
500GB SATA HD

salvaged parts:

basic ATX case
DVD drive
CD drive
NIC card 100mbs

had i had to buy a case....could have gotten no frills one for $29.99
basic DVD/CD-R....about $30
A quad core AMD would have added about 60-80$ to cost. AMD is not my personal choice but its far cheaper than Intel.

Windows "experience" rating was a respectible 5.1 It ran Doom3 on ultra quality no prob.

I put a copy of XP on the machine.

Windows7 "ultimate" is a waste of money.....only thing it adds is multi language support and Bitlocker encryption for the HDD. Get Professional instead.

I stay clear of liquid cooling options.

Do not recommend ASUS MOB's.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 3/9/2011 4:10:52 PM >

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 4:15:37 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

[Not calling BS, but can you point to anyplace where a case, mobo, 1000W PS, 4-6 gigs of gaming RAM, a 4-core AMD or Intel CPU, cooling, a 1TB HD, and a SOTA graphic card (even one) retails for $1000? That's before OS and associated trim.

its doable, but if not buying your going big name brand selling out of a wholesale warehouse like Costco.

As a cost savings exercise, i rebuilt my X's dad's Celeron computer into a modern machine. Minimum requirement was: better than AMD Athlon64 as that was what his laptop used.

Total cost ended up being $318.00

Gigabyte MOB supporting up to 4GB DDR2 or 3 RAM, onboard ATI Radeon graphics and Intel 5.1 sound.

AMD Athlon 2 3.0GHz duo core.
4 GB DDR2 RAM
500GB SATA HD

salvaged parts:

basic ATX case
DVD drive
CD drive
NIC card 100mbs

had i had to buy a case....could have gotten no frills one for $29.99
basic DVD/CD-R....about $30
A quad core AMD would have added about 60-80$ to cost. AMD is not my personal choice but its far cheaper than Intel.

Windows "experience" rating was a respectible 5.1 It ran Doom3 on ultra quality no prob.

I put a copy of XP on the machine.

Windows7 "ultimate" is a waste of money.....only thing it adds is multi language support and Bitlocker encryption for the HDD. Get Professional instead.

I stay clear of liquid cooling options.

Do not recommend ASUS MOB's.

This is not a gaming computer. The graphics card alone . . . nope. Dual core . . . nope. The RAM is slow. The sound is not even SOTA for mobo sound (7.1), let alone what you can get with a sound card. Liquid cooled isn't standard, yet, but it's close, and it is probably needed if you go with more than one video card and/or overclock the CPU. (5+GHz is getting standard for overclocking these days.)

The box you describe will play AE fine. But it's not a gaming box.

This is the link to the Tom's article I cited. You can see that gaming-quality components are not cheap, and there's no magic place to get them at 50% off retail. You can get a PC that will run Office and let you surf the Web for $500 at BestBuy. But that's not the kind of machine I'm talking about. Not even close.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/digital-storm-dominator,2376.html

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 4:24:27 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The box you describe will play AE fine. But it's not a gaming box.

I didn't say it was. It won't satisfy the power gamer who plays 3D shooters but it will satisfy 90% of the rest of the community in terms of functionality including many games....like for example AE, and for a very low price.

The gaming rig i built several years ago came in at just over 2 grand using all top line parts. An equivilent Alienware rig priced at over 5 grand.

It is doable if you know exactly what you need to get the performance desired. For example there were a good number of items on Hanzberger's list that were superfluous to a good gaming rig and could be dispensed with.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 3/9/2011 4:27:46 PM >

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 4:32:56 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The box you describe will play AE fine. But it's not a gaming box.

I didn't say it was. It won't satisfy the power gamer who plays 3D shooters but it will satisfy 90% of the rest of the community in terms of functionality including many games....like for example AE.

The gaming rig i built several years ago came in at just over 2 grand using all top line parts. An equivilent Alienware rig priced at over 5 grand.

It is doable if you know exactly what you need to get the performance desired. For example there were a good number of items on Hanzberger's list that were superfluous to a good gaming rig and could be dispensed with.

I agree that his list had some bloat. I also would say that Alienware is a terrible comparison as it's gone off the tracks since it was bought by Dell. It makes fairly average gaming boxes with a huge brand markup, coasting on what it used to be. That won't last much longer.

I do play some shooters and graphic-intensive games, not just AE. I also only replace every 5-7 years, so buying backward, or even mid-now is a false economy . . . for me. For others who incrementlally replace components and tweak as they go it's not as important.

You can't build a leading-edge game machine in 2011 for $2000. You can build a pretty good machine, sans monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. But you certainly don't need to spend $5000 either. I'd urge you to take a look at the link I posted. That article is from 2009, so its prices aren't current, and DS stopped making that line of pre-made power machines in order to go full-custom as a business model, but in 2009 their machine was a beast for about $2500. Their direct build-your-own test with the same components was $250 less, not half as much. Components cost what they cost, and OEMs get volume discounts the home-buildier can't.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 4:57:40 PM

Miller

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Im my (albeit) limited experience, you can buy or build a system that performs 80-90% as good as the best for half the price.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 5:21:13 PM

Bullwinkle58

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I need sources for these components, because if that's true, I might chance it.

I don't think competitive markets with nearly seamless (Internet) information flows are that inefficient, but I'm from Missouri on it. I need sources and price lists. "Half" was the standard geek toss-off reply to the retail buyer ten years ago, when Fry's rode high and most PCs were bought brick&mortar, but I don't see that now. Prove me wrong. Please.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 6:25:20 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You can't build a leading-edge game machine in 2011 for $2000. You can build a pretty good machine, sans monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. But you certainly don't need to spend $5000 either.

<shrug>

If you say so. I guess too it depends on what one interprets as "leading edge" One certainly does *not* need to have the absolute fastest most expensive processor in order to have leading edge performance. The small statistical gain one sees on websites such as Tom's will barely show up in a real world situation, if at all from my experiences. Certainly it isn't worth the increase in cost.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 3/9/2011 6:26:35 PM >

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 7:47:08 PM

USSAmerica

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quote:

The box you describe will play AE fine. But it's not a gaming box.

Blasphmey!!!

AE is gaming and gaming IS AE!

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 8:20:44 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You can't build a leading-edge game machine in 2011 for $2000. You can build a pretty good machine, sans monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. But you certainly don't need to spend $5000 either.

<shrug>

If you say so. I guess too it depends on what one interprets as "leading edge" One certainly does *not* need to have the absolute fastest most expensive processor in order to have leading edge performance. The small statistical gain one sees on websites such as Tom's will barely show up in a real world situation, if at all from my experiences. Certainly it isn't worth the increase in cost.

Processor speed hasn't been the bottleneck for at least five years. Coring has become somewhat an analog for what had been bragging rights based on clock-speeds in the Pentium-war era. Now you see hairy game machines without the max coring available on the market. Over-clocking is pretty standard, but now it's "safe" over-clocking with liquid cooling, not the geek-teen risky behavior of a decade ago.

Instead of processors the gaming game is all about graphics cards. Number, cooling, over-clocking of them as well, Crossfiring, SLI configs., bussing, and driver games. RAM is a distant third as I percieve it. RAM requirements have leveled off at 4-6 for games, with the real loads being carried by the graphics array. Unless you do other things than gaming, like video editing or something, I don't see OEMs pushing 8+ gigs of RAM very much. I'm not sure, but I think the home version of 64-bit Win 7 tops out at 12 gigs? Don't see gaming rig OEMs pushing Win 7 Professional or the other versions on their sites.

I've seen ads for gaming PCs at over $9000. It's all relative to your income. I know people who have that much in cash, in their house, every day. I've worked with people where that was their tipping budget for the month. I also agree that my 52-YO eyes and ears aren't going to see a 1% performance bump, and $500 is "a lot" for me right now.

I'm looking in the $2000-3000 window, with monitor. I think I can make myself very happy for that budget. The key, as you've said, is to cut the trim and put the money where it shows. I've learned enough in the past 72 hours to know that 72 hours ago I didn't know very much about the current state of things.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/9/2011 9:05:53 PM >

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 8:27:45 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Instead of processors the gaming game is all about graphics cards.

GPU's are as important a choice as the processor. However Sandy Bridge may change all that. 8GB is fine at the moment if one goes 64bit O/S. However new systems are pushing 12-16Gigs because its new and shiny like the latest SUV or hybrid. I've never been super impressed with multiple SLI results vs. the cost. Alot depends on the program in question being run as well. Like overclocking itself.....opinions vary.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 9:05:11 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Instead of processors the gaming game is all about graphics cards.

GPU's are as important a choice as the processor. However Sandy Bridge may change all that. 8GB is fine at the moment if one goes 64bit O/S. However new systems are pushing 12-16Gigs because its new and shiny like the latest SUV or hybrid. I've never been super impressed with multiple SLI results vs. the cost. Alot depends on the program in question being run as well. Like overclocking itself.....opinions vary.

I'm leaning toward 6 gigs right now. I can add a stick if I need to; it's not beyond my capabilities. I'm also leaning toward one pretty good graphics card and not adding the cooling overhead an array might need. I might change as I learn more, but I know that my playing style, environment, and other uses for the box such as music, DVDs, and word processing would benefit from putting the same dollars into the monitor, a clicky keyboard like a Razer, and a good mouse.

As for overclocking, it still scares me a little, even if it's done by pros. That's still on the to-be-determined list.

The truth is, my current rig is so out of the game that anything close to modern is going to blow my mind. It's one of the best moments in gaming when you turn on the new kid for the first time and just go "wow." This time span has been the longest of my gaming career, and things have changed several orders of magnitude on the hardware and in the games' features. I've only played the first two Call of Duty's for example. I think I'm in for some pretty good times, and COD#3 is dirt cheap by now.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 9:06:29 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

The box you describe will play AE fine. But it's not a gaming box.

Blasphmey!!!

AE is gaming and gaming IS AE!

Sorry, dude. I cheat with other (cheap) game hussies.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 9:08:16 PM

Nikademus

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well without case.....i just priced a power system using i7 at $1978.99 assuming i needed all the parts i looked at. As was the case 3 years ago....where Intel really sticks it too you is by trying to entice buyers to get their "Extreme edition" version of their best. (3 years ago it was Core2 Extreme). If hooked, you'll add over $700 to the price tag for marginal increases in performance. My advice....go for a good midline processor of the top grade. You'll save a bundle and won't regret it. My midline Core2 quad machine blazed for years before the i5 and i7 came out to knock my now defunct power system off it's pedestal. Glad i didn't waste the money on the Extreme.

Thx to ASUS....i have a number of spare parts that would reduce my cost at the moment by alot. (i have 8GB of DDR3 memory, a 1000w power source, a high speed DVD-R, and a decent nVidia and sound card lying around)

In truth....i'd update the nVidia to the latest were I in a position to build an i7 desktop and probably the sound card as well. But the memory is spry and the powersource fine for my needs.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 9:18:05 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

well without case.....i just priced a power system using i7 at $1978.99 assuming i needed all the parts i looked at. As was the case 3 years ago....where Intel really sticks it too you is by trying to entice buyers to get their "Extreme edition" version of their best. (3 years ago it was Core2 Extreme). If hooked, you'll add over $700 to the price tag for marginal increases in performance. My advice....go for a good midline processor of the top grade. You'll save a bundle and won't regret it. My midline Core2 quad machine blazed for years before the i5 and i7 came out to knock my now defunct power system off it's pedestal. Glad i didn't waste the money on the Extreme.

Thx to ASUS....i have a number of spare parts that would reduce my cost at the moment by alot. (i have 8GB of DDR3 memory, a 1000w power source, a high speed DVD-R, and a decent nVidia and sound card lying around)

In truth....i'd update the nVidia to the latest were I in a position to build an i7 desktop and probably the sound card as well. But the memory is spry and the powersource fine for my needs.

Surprisingly to someone who once ran home during lunch to install an AdLib sound card in his Dell 386 (no more annoying beeps and whistles form the "native" speaker), sound cards seem to be a meh these days except for audiophiles. Everything I'm reading about gaming sound is that mobo sound is fine for most games, except where fine directional cues are needed to live. I'm thinking of trying to transplant my 7-YO Turtle Beach into the new guy, as I have six satellite speakers and a good subwoofer already, and the plugs work.

I've always had Intels, but I hear decent things about AMD for gaming. That's the extent of my knowledge of AMD--they're better than they used to be. Any comments?

I'm also seeing a myriad of neat case designs. I don't care about all the windows for CPU porn viewing, or neon lights, etc., but I've seen some with top-mount cable connections which would really help me in my room layout. Air flow and dust control is also a key need with a cat living in my office most of the day..

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 9:19:55 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

As for overclocking, it still scares me a little, even if it's done by pros. That's still on the to-be-determined list.

Don't overclock. Not worth the wear and tear on the system or the instability.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 9:27:26 PM

witpqs

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These people:

http://www.pcper.com/

maintain recommended configurations for different budgets:

http://www.pcper.com/hwlb.php

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 9:44:29 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I've always had Intels, but I hear decent things about AMD for gaming. That's the extent of my knowledge of AMD--they're better than they used to be. Any comments?

I'm not an AMD fan. I built the one system using it because I was minimizing cost as part of the exercise. It runs well enough but i believe in sticking with what works and Intel has always done good by me. (I also believe that if something is that much cheaper.....there's a reason for it.) Same for GPU. I'm an nVidia man through and through. Got burned by ATI once. ASUS is also on my s*it list. MSI is great...my P4 board lasted 8+ years of heavy use.

quote:

I'm also seeing a myriad of neat case designs. I don't care about all the windows for CPU porn viewing, or neon lights, etc., but I've seen some with top-mount cable connections which would really help me in my room layout. Air flow and dust control is also a key need with a cat living in my office most of the day..

The only valid reason i would spend more for a case is for how well it's interior is designed in regards easy access/installation of components. The cheap case i bought looked fine but it was very bare bones in terms of ease of install, generating a few curse words when removing/adding something. Next time may pay a little more for a fancier box (on the inside) No need for neon or flashing lights or fish tanks.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 10:08:08 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

These people:

http://www.pcper.com/

maintain recommended configurations for different budgets:

http://www.pcper.com/hwlb.php

Thanks!

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 10:45:47 PM

Sredni

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It's going to be interesting to see how the new cpu's with built in gpu's change things. On the one hand I can't see an add on gpu in the cpu being anywhere near as powerfull as a purpose built graphics card, on the other it could end up being an extra gpu to help hold the load with your 1 to 4 purpose built cards. I saw some interesting benchmarking this one guy did with 4 way sli graphics cards vs 3 way with the 4th card tasked to physics with some performance gains with the 3+1 vs the 4 way. So assigning graphics to your graphics cards and physics to your cpu-gpu might be a good performance boost in the future. I think while the built in gpu of the future might normally be mostly targeted to reduce the need for graphics cards at all for non gamers, for gamers it may also end up providing a nice addition to our gpu lineup.

If it all works out heh.

I've long been tempted to build my own computer, but there's a few things that keep holding me back. The numbers on RAM elude my understanding for instance. The four timing numbers, the actual speed of the ram, it's all greek to me. bleh. Or 6gbs vs 3gbs for hard drive connections. About all I know for that is bigger=better, so why arn't they all just 6gbs? But all the MB's today only have 2 connections for 6gbs, leaving the rest as 3gbs. Now when I was thinking about my ideal system I wanted to have a separate drive for the OS, along with drives for normal operations, and then a backup drive to do backups to. With only 2 6gbs connections does that mean I can only have 2 drives at 6gbs? Or do the 2 drives I have setup in raid0 count as only one drive for connection purpose? And if they don't would I get faster drive access with 2 drives in raid0 connected to 3gbs, or 1 drive on a 6gbs connection? arg. And what about my poor backup drive. Am I going to be stuck copying files over a weekend because they're stuck on an old obsolete 3gbs connection? Would I be better off using an external drive connecting to one of the usb 3.0 connection?

Or the bios stuff. the initial setup of a computer sounds like a nightmare to me. A foreign language of pain and suffering.

There's like a billion little things like that that hold me back from building my own system. I've been considering seeing if there are any night courses at one of the local colleges about building your own pc from parts up.

On the liquid cooling there are some interesting small closed system setups that are fairly cheap. Like 70 bucks for a small radiator and heatsink/pump for your cpu only. The heatsink/pump are actually smaller in size then a lot of the heatsink/fan setups, and then the hoses just run to the radiator which clamps (along with fans) to the spot on the back of your case where you'd normal just have a case fan. I havn't tried them out yet but it seems like a fairly easy setup. I think the system you were linking from cyberpower bullwinkle has a setup like that you can upgrade to.

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 11:03:54 PM

Bullwinkle58

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You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.

I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/9/2011 11:05:32 PM >

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 11:07:05 PM

zace

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Would you like me to lay one out on newegg for you?

It won't be bleeding edge but a lot of that is unncessary. IE 6 core CPUs don't add a lot to gaming as they don't thread across them that well.

I might still have the invoice for this one lying around. Let me check. It was a year ago but here are the components.

AMD phemon II 965 black (unlocked multiplier for ocing)
2 x 2 gigs OCZ (black?) memory with heat spreaders and head sinks
1000w ps (can't remember the brand)
nvidia gtx 285

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RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 11:10:58 PM

zace

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This was over a year ago now so the parts arn't bleeding edge.

Remove the case and windows (280 bucks). Up the MB if you want and then SLI the video.

1

OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3RPR16004GK
Item #: N82E16820227320
Memory Standard Return Policy
For Tech support call: 408 986 8400 or email support@ocztechnology.com

$130.99
. 1

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822152185
Standard Return Policy

$89.99
1

Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - OEM
Item #: N82E16827118030
Limited Replacement Only Return Policy

$24.99
. 1

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 32-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
Item #: N82E16832116756
Software Return Policy
Please Note CD keys are listed on the outside of the plastic wrap accompanying your product.

$139.99
. 1

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX
Item #: N82E16819103727
CPU Replacement Only Return Policy

$183.99
1

MSI 770-G45 AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813130250
Standard Return Policy
MSI 626 913 0828

$79.99
1

BFG Tech BFGEGTX2851024OCBE GeForce GTX 285 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
Item #: N82E16814143190
VGA Standard Return Policy

$359.99
Shipped from NJ, USA - Tracking xxxxxxxxxxxx
1

Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
Item #: N82E16811129043
Limited Replacement Only Return Policy

$159.99
Subtotal $1,169.92
Tax $0.00
UPS 3 DAYS $18.42
Rush Processing $2.99
Order Total $1,191.33

< Message edited by zace -- 3/9/2011 11:12:14 PM >

(in reply to zace)

Post #: 53

RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 11:15:42 PM

zace

Posts: 183
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.

I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

Bull, if you are not building a system then you are not OCing to the point that you need liquid cooling 99% of the time....

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 54

RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/9/2011 11:33:44 PM

zace

Posts: 183
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline

Information for everyone as I have been building systems since the 8088 and 8087 days with the dip socket memory (100's of sockets on a card).

1. Never go for the high end processor. Games don't need the extra speed and will run the same on a lower end.

2. Don't spend 800 bucks on video. By the time the games require the video power you will be able to replace your 400 buck system with one as fast as that 800 dollar one for another 400 bucks. means 400 bucks this year and 400 bucks next year for the same gaming experience and you will keep up with the DX upgrades. Look at people that got screwed on the DX 10 debacle by nvidia.

3. always get your memory in matched pairs... Then set the timing in the bios to what the sticks will do. Don't think more is better... faster is better at a minimum size (4gb is usually enough but you can do 2 x 4gb now).

4. Don't overcool... wasted money. It is better to buy a case with good cooling than coolers for chips. The case will also last decades...

5. remember the system is a matched set. having any one component that much faster won't help you. Balance the CPU, memory, HD, and video for what you are doing. Gaming is video requirement first, CAD is open GL video first then CPU, video rendering is CPU first then memory, etc...

6. don't believe every website out there. Many are in the business of keeping connections not giving you the best advice. Tom's hardware is one of these.....

(in reply to zace)

Post #: 55

RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/10/2011 6:16:42 AM

stuman

Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.
I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

Now THAT is one thing I am damn good at !

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 56

RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/10/2011 6:23:21 AM

stuman

Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zace

Information for everyone as I have been building systems since the 8088 and 8087 days with the dip socket memory (100's of sockets on a card).

1. Never go for the high end processor. Games don't need the extra speed and will run the same on a lower end.

2. Don't spend 800 bucks on video. By the time the games require the video power you will be able to replace your 400 buck system with one as fast as that 800 dollar one for another 400 bucks. means 400 bucks this year and 400 bucks next year for the same gaming experience and you will keep up with the DX upgrades. Look at people that got screwed on the DX 10 debacle by nvidia.

3. always get your memory in matched pairs... Then set the timing in the bios to what the sticks will do. Don't think more is better... faster is better at a minimum size (4gb is usually enough but you can do 2 x 4gb now).

4. Don't overcool... wasted money. It is better to buy a case with good cooling than coolers for chips. The case will also last decades...

5. remember the system is a matched set. having any one component that much faster won't help you. Balance the CPU, memory, HD, and video for what you are doing. Gaming is video requirement first, CAD is open GL video first then CPU, video rendering is CPU first then memory, etc...

6. don't believe every website out there. Many are in the business of keeping connections not giving you the best advice. Tom's hardware is one of these.....

This contiues to be a very helpful thread. I appreciate this advice. As I find myself in a very similar situation to Bullwinkle's I may go play around on Newegg's site ad then ask you a few questions at some point if you don't mind.

< Message edited by stuman -- 3/10/2011 11:24:56 AM >

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

(in reply to zace)

Post #: 57

RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/10/2011 8:47:19 AM

zace

Posts: 183
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

quote:

ORIGINAL: zace

Information for everyone as I have been building systems since the 8088 and 8087 days with the dip socket memory (100's of sockets on a card).

1. Never go for the high end processor. Games don't need the extra speed and will run the same on a lower end.

2. Don't spend 800 bucks on video. By the time the games require the video power you will be able to replace your 400 buck system with one as fast as that 800 dollar one for another 400 bucks. means 400 bucks this year and 400 bucks next year for the same gaming experience and you will keep up with the DX upgrades. Look at people that got screwed on the DX 10 debacle by nvidia.

3. always get your memory in matched pairs... Then set the timing in the bios to what the sticks will do. Don't think more is better... faster is better at a minimum size (4gb is usually enough but you can do 2 x 4gb now).

4. Don't overcool... wasted money. It is better to buy a case with good cooling than coolers for chips. The case will also last decades...

5. remember the system is a matched set. having any one component that much faster won't help you. Balance the CPU, memory, HD, and video for what you are doing. Gaming is video requirement first, CAD is open GL video first then CPU, video rendering is CPU first then memory, etc...

6. don't believe every website out there. Many are in the business of keeping connections not giving you the best advice. Tom's hardware is one of these.....

This contiues to be a very helpful thread. I appreciate this advice. As I find myself in a very similar situation to Bullwinkle's I may go pay around on Newegg's site ad then ask you a few questions at some point if you don't mind.

hopefully you mean play... lol

I am not fully researched on recent video cards and CPUs. But I will help how I can.

(in reply to stuman)

Post #: 58

RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/10/2011 2:01:28 PM

Hanzberger

Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Bullwinkle, I would go back to where you started. Go to Cyberpowerpc, build a computer (online) and this will atleast get you familiar with different parts. Then you can compare with other ppl's pre made machines. I am in the exact same boat as you. There is some good common sense advice here. Like not going for the best graphics card and stuff, or less ram now and put some in later. Things I have thought of doing. I think I still would like to have the liquid coolling just for the shear fact of where my computer is (the kitchen lol). I posted the online computer I built last month earlier in the thread. I am gonna wait until Sandy Bridge comes out and then compare prices to see if they have come tumblling down. But I tried to research each componet as I built it, that is why I like cyberpower. IMO I would stick with Intel.

(in reply to zace)

Post #: 59

RE: OT-CyberPower gaming PCs - 3/10/2011 3:13:18 PM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.
I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

Now THAT is one thing I am damn good at !