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RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Available!

 
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RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/10/2011 7:54:56 AM   
barbrady

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/16/2011
Status: offline 		I would suggest to remove research labs from space ports designs and build dedicated research stations or special space port with research facilities to achieve the research potential of the colony and to get bonuses from special locations.

The main problem with AI:

-Doesn't build dedicated station on the first years so it wastes research potential of the colony
-Building research facilities on each space port leads to high maintenance cost (the research capacity on mid game is major than the research potential of your colony) , so the AI has less money than a player who manages the research station / space port correctly

Solving this doesn't seem too difficult, simply remove research facilities from space port design, and build special space ports (new design needed) / research dedicated station to achieve your research potential. This will give the AI less maintenance costs and more research output during all the game.

< Message edited by barbrady -- 3/10/2011 8:01:40 AM >

(in reply to tornnight)
Post #: 31
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/10/2011 8:09:35 AM   
barbrady

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/16/2011
Status: offline 		ummmm and simplifying even more, you could argue that scientists can not work with all the noise produced at space ports, so space ports can not handle research facilities. The player / AI should build research stations to do research and manage them correctly.

< Message edited by barbrady -- 3/10/2011 8:11:43 AM >

(in reply to barbrady)
Post #: 32
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/10/2011 11:40:00 AM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		It is actually a decent proposal.

You can argue that there is no reason why such a module could not be placed on a space port. But then I would ask ... why do you have to build it in space?

One could remove the space port labs, and give some background research outcome from colony populations and planet sizes. To make things easy this could be a percentage of the research potential. And then you have to build research stations to fill the gap, as really fancy research must be at a quiet spot in space...

To make more sense, require all labs to be at a research location, and make more (weak) research locations. So finding a spot to build is not hard, but finding a good spot is a little harder.

I think the complaints about slow AI research expansion compared to players, are more a problem of game design than poor AI. The massive human research buildup has a feeling of being loopholeish.

(in reply to barbrady)
Post #: 33
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/10/2011 11:52:15 AM   
Caesar_Augustus


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Henneth Anûn
Status: offline 		Interesting... but since I have not experimented extensively with this "issue",
I wonder how can the players tell if AI-empires are slower at tech expansion?
By the use of the editor?

And in any case, I would imgaine that a fairly simple "workaround" is, in addition to the above-mentioned tweaks,
the tweaking of the research percentage increase in the races.txt for the empires you want.



(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 34
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/10/2011 11:55:37 AM   
Litjan

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 3/27/2010
From: Butzbach, Germany
Status: offline 		I would like to take things even a bit further: Why not just do away with research labs for generating the basic research points? Let´s have the population generate research automatically (it is just some mouseclicks to build the research stations around your homeplanet, anyway).

We could then concentrate on the fun part of building research stations at research locations to get those juicy boni - something exciting and worth fighting about.

< Message edited by Litjan -- 3/10/2011 11:56:42 AM >

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 35
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/10/2011 12:17:20 PM   
barbrady

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/16/2011
Status: offline 		I like litjan proposal too. It's easy to improve the current situation.

"I wonder how can the players tell if AI-empires are slower at tech expansion? "

Easy, on earlier game, simply go with your explorers and see what the AI is building. AI does a decent job with mining, fleets, expansion (latest patches)... but not with research.

On later game as the AI uses the default design to build space ports it has a lot of research capacity, more than needed, so it wastes a lot of maney on unnecesary research facilities.

< Message edited by barbrady -- 3/10/2011 12:21:55 PM >

(in reply to Litjan)
Post #: 36
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/10/2011 12:27:33 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		It is very easy to learn how the AI does stuff.

Let the AI run your empire, and watch the results...

The AI is good at building resort and research bases, but not until it locate suitable bonus locations. (Resort outside one would not make sense, anyways).

Players retrofit to 10 of each lab on their starting port for almost no money, and just stuff single lab station at the best bonus locations. If they need more, they retrofit more. This is loopholey.

(in reply to Caesar_Augustus)
Post #: 37
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/11/2011 5:37:32 PM   
hewwo

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/22/2010
Status: offline 		+1 for litjan's idea. It would really improve the research mechanics. Cut away the fat and concentrate on the fun stuff!

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 38
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/12/2011 11:52:18 AM   
Merker

 

Posts: 208
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		hmm, generally I tend to just leave the AI to do my research, and it all works balanced enough for everyone. Anyway, most of the time the other AI empires end up outteching me if I'm not building my custom bases or am with the humans. I just can't help not building the compiled space lab tough, it seems way too odd for me to build dedicated labs next to each other. And it all balances out from what I've seen, the AI doesn't build any more labs if you build a high yield custom base with lots of labs. It also becomes a target for your enemies and it's a risk to lose your whole research potential, or at least a large part of it so it becomes balanced.

I love being outteched though, makes the game MUCH more interesting, needing 2-3 ships to take out one of theirs of the same class.

(in reply to hewwo)
Post #: 39
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/18/2011 7:27:03 PM   
Shuul

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 2/16/2011
Status: offline 		Isn't it like a week after that last beta patch? Maybe its time to release official update?

(in reply to Merker)
Post #: 40
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/18/2011 8:00:37 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Maybe they noticed some of our feedback and they prepare some more fixes for the official one. I'd like that, waitning is not a problem.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Shuul)
Post #: 41
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 4:37:22 AM   
Simulation01


Posts: 540
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		sigh

_____________________________

"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will." -Tennyson

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 42
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 4:39:56 AM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		There has been very little activity on the forum these last few days; I am wondering if there are issues.

_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Simulation01)
Post #: 43
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 4:56:07 AM   
tornnight

 

Posts: 170
Joined: 6/13/2010
Status: offline 		I think it's the opposite. Everyone is too busy playing to get on the board.

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 44
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 8:01:34 AM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tornnight

I think it's the opposite. Everyone is too busy playing to get on the board.


We concur. Happy people are quiet people.

_____________________________

Nothing is impossible, not if you can imagine it!
"And they hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear."

(in reply to tornnight)
Post #: 45
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 8:02:19 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		There are always issues: exterminating monsters, getting that loros moon, pest control etc etc

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to tornnight)
Post #: 46
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 10:06:14 AM   
Sithuk

 

Posts: 431
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		This version is definitely playable. We're all likely stuck in our space sand pits.

I'm looking forward to the externalisation of as much of the game as possible. Then the real fun begins: game balancing and community mods.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 47
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 4:33:46 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hmmm.. I think this version is great. No apparent bugs that I can find so why not release a full version?

There are lots of players who don't download the beta patches so they're long overdue an update.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Sithuk)
Post #: 48
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 7:19:08 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		That was the plan last time we were updated, I hope the hold up is due to more goodies. I know, I know, it's wishful thinking

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 49
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 8:34:41 PM   
Caesar_Augustus


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Henneth Anûn
Status: offline 		I'm sure there will be more goodies in the next patch,
since Elliot and Erik are good developers.
Patience.

And dear friends, I haven't been playing very much,
I've been feeling very down lately. I'm a rather a
sensitive soul and things affect me pretty much.
Can't help it, but this time it's taking its toll on me.

And for all the galactic emperor I am, enjoying destroying
planets with the Death Star, that doesn't mean I haven't got a heart.

Just airing out a bit. Thanks, all.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 50
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 9:50:44 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Hope you feel better soon, Caesar. There's alot of turmoil in the world right now. What we could do with a bit of imperial order, eh?

@Data, More goodies would require another beta patch. It just seems like an ideal time to release a full update via the installer.

That way alot of folks who don't download the beta patches will get an update. Unless Erik and Elliot have looked at the numbers and most every DW player is running the beta patch anyway?


_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Caesar_Augustus)
Post #: 51
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 10:08:14 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		I agree entirely and I think that's their target as well.
Since it's rather easy to rollback to a pre-beta state I'd be surprised if many of us can abstain from trying the newest stuff

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 52
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 10:21:35 PM   
Shuul

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 2/16/2011
Status: offline 		I can I never use beta patches, dont want to ruin game experience if something goes wrong with it. So ill just wait.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 53
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 10:24:13 PM   
Caesar_Augustus


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Henneth Anûn
Status: offline 		Thank you, Igard. True enough, the world is in a bit of upheaval,
but it's my own interior world that needs some imperial order, too.

Oh I'll survive this, but I fear I'm on the brink of losing hope,
and that's pretty bad.

I try to remember Tolkien's "There is always hope", and I truly
believe it, but at the moment it's very hard for me.
I don't remember ever feeling quite this way before.

Thanks again.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 54
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 10:29:24 PM   
alexalexuk

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/6/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caesar_Augustus

Thank you, Igard. True enough, the world is in a bit of upheaval,
but it's my own interior world that needs some imperial order, too.

Oh I'll survive this, but I fear I'm on the brink of losing hope,
and that's pretty bad.

I try to remember Tolkien's "There is always hope", and I truly
believe it, but at the moment it's very hard for me.
I don't remember ever feeling quite this way before.

Thanks again.


Focus on whats important in life.

Dont focus on the past, focus on the future.



(in reply to Caesar_Augustus)
Post #: 55
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 10:48:24 PM   
JamesM

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: QLD, Australia
Status: offline 		Has anyone encountered an issue in this beta where construction ships when assigned to manual task, never seem to complete them?

(in reply to alexalexuk)
Post #: 56
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 10:56:21 PM   
Caesar_Augustus


Posts: 182
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Henneth Anûn
Status: offline 		Yes well, I do believe I am focusing on what's important in life.
That's why I feel the way I do...

But thanks, alexalexuk.

(in reply to JamesM)
Post #: 57
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 11:14:49 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Maybe I'll soon have a little Star Trek mod update to cheer you up.


< Message edited by Igard -- 3/19/2011 11:15:25 PM >

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Caesar_Augustus)
Post #: 58
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/19/2011 11:41:52 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		I agree that it is a good sign when the tech issues forum has not had a single new report in 3 days (as of 3/19).

_____________________________

Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 59
RE: New Return of the Shakturi 1.5.0.6 Public Beta Avai... - 3/20/2011 12:55:06 AM   
Simulation01


Posts: 540
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		I don't download Beta patches.  One because I don't have time to play test for the developers and help out, and two because the last time I did that they made a change to it and then made it official....when I tried to then go through the installer to update the beta to the newest version it did not work.  I had to uninstall the game and delete any mention of it in the root directory and reinstall to get it to work correctly again.  That wound up my beta test downloads.


quote:

Thank you, Igard. True enough, the world is in a bit of upheaval,
but it's my own interior world that needs some imperial order, too.

Oh I'll survive this, but I fear I'm on the brink of losing hope,
and that's pretty bad.

I try to remember Tolkien's "There is always hope", and I truly
believe it, but at the moment it's very hard for me.
I don't remember ever feeling quite this way before.

Thanks again.



"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future..."  ~Jeremiah 29:11

“Frodo: I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” ~Tolkien



_____________________________

"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will." -Tennyson

(in reply to tjhkkr)
Post #: 60
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