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RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor

 
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RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 3:19:57 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Moscow is indeed fairly nasty in the Winter, summer is much much nicer!

I have to say that your AAR is a depressing read for a Sov player...

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 151
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 3:22:29 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		I try to lighten the atmosphere! More "take my wife please!" jokes needed?

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 152
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 4:33:25 PM   
Manstein63


Posts: 688
Joined: 6/30/2010
Status: offline 		Remind me never to play against you as I don't think my ego could take it. A true master at work. However I do have some sympathy with your opponent as must be wondering what the hell has happened.
Manstein63

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 153
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 4:46:01 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		How did this game get so out of hand for the Soviet player? From what I can tell it's just a result of a huge discrepancy in skill levels. No offense here, but I haven't seen any brilliance from the Soviet player as I've seen in some other AARs. I would be in the same Soviet situation as I'm new to game as well. So when Moscow is taken does that give a auto victory for axis? Maybe the Soviet player can surrender at any time? I'd like to see how PeeDeeAitch would fair against a skilled Soviet opponent. Once again, not trying to offend anybody as just my observations.


(in reply to Manstein63)
Post #: 154
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 5:02:19 PM   
krupp_88mm


Posts: 406
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		i don't care what the historians say or the game models, if Moscow Leningrad and Sevastopol fell in 1941 the war fro Russia would be lost

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 155
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 5:14:19 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		The defender had better booby-trap Moscow ASAP so that PDH is too skeered to enter. Worked against Hitler at Leningrad from what I hear...

(in reply to krupp_88mm)
Post #: 156
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 5:32:54 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		I don't think Moscow is going to fall, it would take a lot of resources that I don't have. However, the threat that it will fall opens up other regions for me.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 157
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 6:10:55 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		Will the game end when Moscow - Leningrad - Sevastopol is in axis hands?

I though I remember something about auto victory?

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 158
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 6:18:35 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Nope, if I were to take Moscow I would be about 3/4 of the way to auto-victory in points, I think.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 159
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/17/2011 11:44:54 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Turn 15 sent, and now the wait.  I have a cunning plan for winter, but I need to advance my lines about 1200 miles to the east for it to be totally practical.  The devil is in the details.  Failing that I plan a two-part winter plan: 1) Take massive losses as I try to hold everywhere, and 2) Retreat back to the Oder.

I think that if I phase from part 1 to part 2 I shall be able to weather the upcoming storm.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 160
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 12:27:59 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

Remind me never to play against you as I don't think my ego could take it. A true master at work. However I do have some sympathy with your opponent as must be wondering what the hell has happened.
Manstein63


I don't think I am a master, but the second part of this is what I strive to do as the German player - leave my opponent wondering what I will do, threatening one location then driving to another, deep drives that leave him saying "bloody hell" when he opens the turn. That is what playing the germans is for me.

By turn 15 my tanks are depleted, my units tired, I will likely be pushed around in Winter - but I have caused more than historic casualties, I have taken Leningrad, I have marched to the edge of Moscow before mud...all in all I did what I set out to do - now I just need to survive for 3.5 more years!

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Manstein63)
Post #: 161
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 2:26:05 AM   
Manny111

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

i don't care what the historians say or the game models, if Moscow Leningrad and Sevastopol fell in 1941 the war fro Russia would be lost


I'm gonna write Logan11, my current game opponent and propose your idea as modified victory conditions, Krupp.

I wonder what he will think about that?
---


Sorry for hijack.



< Message edited by Manny111 -- 3/18/2011 2:27:03 AM >

(in reply to krupp_88mm)
Post #: 162
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 2:53:25 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Let's see if the wife is impressed by how well this Envelope Game is going. 

(in reply to Manny111)
Post #: 163
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 2:57:37 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		This thread started as a hijack of myself, no worries.  However, I don't see any realistic chance of victory in 1941 based on the actual events, participants, and actions...

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Manny111)
Post #: 164
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 3:04:27 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Moscow is indeed fairly nasty in the Winter, summer is much much nicer!

I have to say that your AAR is a depressing read for a Sov player...


If I was writing one, it would be equally so.....

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 165
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 12:57:15 PM   
cpt flam


Posts: 2352
Joined: 1/16/2011
From: caen - France
Status: offline 		I will probably surprise some
but for me game isn't finish yet!
winter will probably be bloody during snow again
but all is not loss
if I can reform a "real" army will follow the advise to limit attack during blizzard

_____________________________


(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 166
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 2:16:47 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Hit him very, very, very, very hard during the winter

Its the big leveller

_____________________________


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Post #: 167
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 3:22:44 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Hit him very, very, very, very hard during the winter

Its the big leveller


Hey now! That just seems unfair! Well, not really - I expect to be hit hard and left out to dry, but you don't have to have such a sound of happiness in your voice...

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 168
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 7:38:35 PM   
cpt flam


Posts: 2352
Joined: 1/16/2011
From: caen - France
Status: offline 		glad to see you are there PDH

_____________________________


(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 169
RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of A... - 3/18/2011 7:41:17 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		I am now a player of the evil communist dictatorship, so waiting to see my comrades kick Nazi ass in the winter is worth a Dr Evil type MWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAA

_____________________________


(in reply to cpt flam)
Post #: 170
Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 5:59:23 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		(Thanks Encircled for the title!)

Turn 17. I want to run around and smash things every turn, but sadly the "designers" had to put "weather" in this "game" making me play historically. Rubbish, I say, rubbish. Still, I suppose it is too late to quit, so I play out this last turn of fair weather and gird my loins (I am not sure what that is, but Dante did it) and make ready for the unfun turns.

The turns before mud are dicey, I can't just go turtle, this is the time the Soviets are the most hurt they will ever be - their divisions are staffed by untrained louts and clerks by this time, and the appearance of brigades along the line means that the barrel is being scraped. Still, by blizzard these louts will be 12 feet tall and screaming for vengeance just because I have conquered and brutalized a fair portion of their country. Shame really.

I did not slow down before the weather, instead I pushed. The 1st and 2nd Panzer Groups were blown after the Stalino dash and subsequent Azov pocket, so they can just move slowly. However, the freed up 4th Panzer and 3rd Panzer (who rested after Smolensk) hammered the outskirts of Moscow. 18th Army moved south (too damn slowly...) but would be ready to help out before mud.

The major cities south of Moscow would all be threatened, and any that fell would be gravy for me. North of Moscow the Finns began to march, and the 16th and 9th Armies would press on. Each hex gained was one more I could lose in the blizzard.

Here is the North at the end of clear weather. Say goodbye to advanced, boys, they are about done.






You will note that I took as many of the cities north of Moscow as I could - including Kalinin, Torzhok, and Vyshny Volochek

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by PeeDeeAitch -- 3/19/2011 6:01:10 PM >

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 171
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 6:03:39 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Moscow - the big gamble

Here is where I demand ONE MORE TURN OF GOOD WEATHER

I was too slow, or something, and I will put the panzers and infantry in trouble after the mud. Still, if it works it is worth it. The 3rd Panzer crept around the north of the capital, the 4th (with the reinforcement of the late arriving XXX Panzer Corps) feinted toward Kaluga the previous turn then zapped to cut off Moscow. If it works, I have helped myself a bit, if it fails it proves the original title of this AAR.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 172
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 6:06:26 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		The Empty Middle

Here is where the vastness of the Soviet Union makes me cringe. So much big empty, nowhere to hide. The 4th, 2nd, and 6th Armies bludgeoned along in the past month to take as many cities as they could without armor help. Sadly, Orel will not fall, but Kursk, Belgorod, and Kharkov all fell. I really would want about 5-6 more hexes before blizzard, so the snow might know more advance....gulp.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 173
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 6:08:19 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		The South

Here the fruits of my dash to Stalino pay off. That belt of cities is behind the lines now, just waiting for 1st Panzer to come and book up all the hotels for the winter. Here, the urban/cities/larger towns, along with the mountain troops and extra mukluks for the boys means the chance of a fair defense. Of course, I am usually wrong...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 174
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 6:10:24 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Crimea

Here I cleared out all the nasty Soviets, and reached Kerch right as the rains began to fall. Found the Crimea, just sitting there all alone, can I keep it, Dad? Please?

I promise to keep sufficient troops here and to brush it every day.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 175
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 6:23:31 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		The entire front - End of Summer






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 176
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 8:46:20 PM   
krupp_88mm


Posts: 406
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		watch out i hear the russians are working on a new wonder weapon


(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 177
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 9:01:08 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Be interesting to see your rail situation. You might find some of those guys in The Big Empty are going to be out of supply in mud.


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to krupp_88mm)
Post #: 178
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 10:15:18 PM   
color

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 7/24/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		PDH, interesting game.

Once you reach the first winter turn (before the 1st blizzard turn) if would be really interesting to get your current casualty & OOB, as a reference mark to before your deal with the blizzard.

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 179
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 3/19/2011 10:39:28 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
quote:

You might find some of those guys in The Big Empty are going to be out of supply in mud.


My guess is everything east of Stalino will be out of supply range. If you check the mouse over box for supply range, everything more than 25 MPs in clear will be out of supply as mud is x4.

Just hope your opponent doesn't know the rule about the chance for isolated unit to surrender if attacked. I got away with it in my Game with Trey.



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It's only a Game


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Post #: 180
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