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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 7:08:24 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
No! I'm saying that Gary Larson (The far Side) was right - cows are the dominant species!

My wife and I still refer to 'Cat Fud' [sic] in honor of Mr. Larson.

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Post #: 16411

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 7:09:39 PM

Chickenboy

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Well, it's about time UNP.

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Post #: 16412

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 7:34:09 PM

Onime No Kyo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
No! I'm saying that Gary Larson (The far Side) was right - cows are the dominant species!

My wife and I still refer to 'Cat Fud' [sic] in honor of Mr. Larson.

I can only surmise where she lures you with that one.

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Post #: 16413

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 7:38:04 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
No! I'm saying that Gary Larson (The far Side) was right - cows are the dominant species!

My wife and I still refer to 'Cat Fud' [sic] in honor of Mr. Larson.

I can only surmise where she lures you with that one.

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Post #: 16414

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 7:49:30 PM

gladiatt

Posts: 2576
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Hey DivePac,

Sorry to hear your news, but great to see your attitude.� Hang in there and keep fighting.

+1; i imagine what it could mean and i bow in respect for your good spirit

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Post #: 16415

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 8:03:47 PM

Mynok

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Looking into this cat business some more: there are a number of species/subspecies thought to be possible progenitors to the current Felis catus, only one is associated with the desert. Most are associated in the wild with woods, jungles, mountains.

This from Wiki:

"As The New York Times wrote in 2007, "Until recently the cat was commonly believed to have been domesticated in ancient Egypt, where it was a cult animal", but a study that year revealed that the lines of descent of all house cats probably run through as few as five self-domesticating African Wildcats (Felis silvestris lybica) c. 8000 BC, in the Near East. The earliest direct evidence of cat domestication is a kitten that was buried alongside a human 9,500 years ago in Cyprus."

Again, 10+ K years ago, the most of the middle east was not the desert it is now (or so 'tis thought).

'Chapparal' probably would have been a better word. It wasn't the Sahara but it wasn't a lush tropical island either.

It is very evident that the Sahara has encroached mightily both northward and southward. I believe there is a good deal of evidence (maybe I read this in NatGeo?) that there was much greater rainfall over Egypt and much of the north of Africa some 10,000+ years ago. Still not to the point of 'lushness', per se, but certainly more along the lines of a chapparal and a semi-arid to arid climate.

< Message edited by Mynok -- 3/30/2011 8:10:01 PM >

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Post #: 16416

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 8:55:15 PM

Grollub

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Evening tithe.

Todays balcony pic; Part of the pool area.

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Post #: 16417

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 8:56:39 PM

Grollub

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... and we also had some corvette/patrol boat (?) visiting just offshore.

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< Message edited by Grollub -- 3/30/2011 8:57:29 PM >

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Post #: 16418

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 8:58:29 PM

Grollub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Hey DivePac,

Sorry to hear your news, but great to see your attitude.� Hang in there and keep fighting.

+1

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Post #: 16419

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 8:58:57 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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Per, I'm trying to decide if I dislike you versus Kwik E Mart more these days...it's a very tough choice.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 3/30/2011 8:59:08 PM >

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Post #: 16420

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:01:49 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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Per-the canary islands are nominally Spanish, right? Yet, the vast majority of their tourist trade is from all over Europe, right? What's the default lingua franca there? How did the bellhop greet you before you said a thing?

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Post #: 16421

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:02:21 PM

Grollub

Posts: 6674
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From: Lulea, Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Per, I'm trying to decide if I dislike you versus Kwik E Mart more these days...it's a very tough choice.

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Post #: 16422

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:07:11 PM

Grollub

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From: Lulea, Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Per-the canary islands are nominally Spanish, right?�

Right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Yet, the vast majority of their tourist trade is from all over Europe, right?�

Right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
What's the default lingua franca there?�

Spanish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
How did the bellhop greet you before you said a thing?

Buenas Noches, Senor.

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Post #: 16423

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:12:18 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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You look about as Spanish as I do, mate.

My experience with some tourist-heavy places with multinational patrons is that they will default to what you 'appear' to be. In my case, with 'gringo' tattooed on my cabeza, they usually try American English (

take that Limeys) first as a default.

I'll usually answer them exclusively in Colombian / Mexican Spanish.

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Post #: 16424

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:12:30 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

Zssssssssss time...

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 16425

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:13:31 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
So, are you trying to say that the FEWER genes a species has the more advanced it is? That would put chickens ahead of us... and make Chickenboy possibly the most advanced person here (evolutionarily speaking...)

And that would also imply E. coli and the influenza virus have us beat by a large margin (4,169 and 11 genes, respectively).

While I concur with rtrapasso's conclusion about my advanced hybrid chicken/human persona (evolutionary speaking of course) , "advanced" is a very subjective term. The number of genes in a given organism is a non-correlate to how advanced an organism is. There's lots of other schemata for determining how 'advanced' an organism is relative to others.

Er... i would hope it was pretty obvious (from the examples given) that by most standard the number of genes doesn't have much to do with how "advanced" a species is.

As for cats and where they developed: i think it is a logical trap to think that because a species has the most genetic diversity in a particular location that it is then the place where they developed (although of course it MIGHT be true).

For instance, lets say cats originated in Libya (in a thought experiment) and that they migrated along the coast of Africa into the Middle East and Turkey. Then the ocean levels change and the Middle East population is cut off from the original Libyan population. The Mid-East population would tend to spread and proliferate genetic diversity as they encounter different climates, but in this though experiment, the Libyan population is wiped out (or at reduced to very small numbers) by a cat virus combined with natural disaster. Actually, this is what has recently happened to the cheetah: it has very narrow genetic diversity.

Genetic testing would say "there is more genetic diversity in the Mid-East/Turkey, therefore that is where cats originated", however, in this thought experiment that is not the case.

Also, we can say that the ancestral cat that gave rise to most of the current cat species was probably from an arid climate, we don't know where the current species Felis catus developed based on (say) kidney structure. Despite cats living for tens of thousands of years (or more) in relatively wet climates (jungles, etc.), afaik, they haven't tended to lose their relatively efficient kidney function.

It would seem to have a survival advantage to be able to drink brackish water if your kidney function is able to hold up until you are able to breed, which seems to be the case with cats. A large percentage of cats i've known tend to go from kidney failure

- but only after they've had a successful reproductive life.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 3/30/2011 9:17:52 PM >

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Post #: 16426

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:15:16 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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Hey Leo-

I wanted to say 'thanks' for the video / news pieces you post. Usually, those are excellent quality or at least very interesting. The video of the tsunami from a couple days ago was phenomenally sobering. The 'big NASA announcement' from a couple months ago sparked a furious debate around my family and coworkers about what it was going to be. So, thanks.

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Post #: 16427

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:22:39 PM

Grollub

Posts: 6674
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From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline

Good night friends

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Post #: 16428

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 9:39:54 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Er... i would hope it was pretty obvious (from the examples given) that by most standard the number of genes doesn't have much to do with how "advanced" a species is.

Yes, it was pretty obvious. With the exception of myself, as I indicated.

I concur about your thoughts on diversity does not equal inception / initial introduction. So many factors influence what genetic phenotypes predominate in a given area over long stretches of evolutionary time. I haven't done an anatomic comparison between F. silvestris or Panthera spp. to juxtapose their renal physiology versus today's F. catus (and presumed geographical origins), but my loose understanding is that they're pretty darn similar.

Unless you knew most pre-Felis domesticus or Felis silvestris catus or Felis catus or Hotrodicus tidbiticus (oops-the latter was Roadrunner taxonomy...), your experiences with modern cats and renal disease is likely unrelated to their evolutionary renal physiologic function so much as a hazards associated with domestication and aging.

To whit: because you probably haven't known many feral Felis catus animals or what caused their demise at what age, your sampling from personal experience is biased and not reflective of the species on the whole. Most cats (by species number) are not domesticated in the behavioral sense. For them, a typical demise is much more likely to be FIV, FeLV, traumatic (automobile, dogs and other cats most common), exposure, malnutrition and starvation.

The average feral cat doesn't live to see three years of age. As far as reproduction of species goes-because of their truncated feral lifespan-they've got to squeeze out some progeny STAT. They do a pretty good job of it.

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Post #: 16429

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 10:23:19 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Between Chickens and Grapes:

The number of genes that humans have was estimated at 6.7 million in 1984... current estimate is around 22000... chickens have ~16736 protein encoding genes, and grapes 30,434...

Shoot... we are arguably less advanced than grapes...

Remember that grapes and other plants have to make everything they need from light, CO2, water, and a little fertilizer.
That takes a lot more proteins and more genes. We have the luxury of eating the things they already made for us.

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Post #: 16430

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 10:34:04 PM

Mynok

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quote:

They do a frackin A-class bang-up job of it.

Fixed that for you.

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Post #: 16431

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 10:37:42 PM

Kwik E Mart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Per, I'm trying to decide if I dislike you versus Kwik E Mart more these days...it's a very tough choice.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 16432

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 10:40:39 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Er... i would hope it was pretty obvious (from the examples given) that by most standard the number of genes doesn't have much to do with how "advanced" a species is.

Yes, it was pretty obvious. With the exception of myself, as I indicated.

I concur about your thoughts on diversity does not equal inception / initial introduction. So many factors influence what genetic phenotypes predominate in a given area over long stretches of evolutionary time. I haven't done an anatomic comparison between F. silvestris or Panthera spp. to juxtapose their renal physiology versus today's F. catus (and presumed geographical origins), but my loose understanding is that they're pretty darn similar.

Unless you knew most pre-Felis domesticus or Felis silvestris catus or Felis catus or Hotrodicus tidbiticus (oops-the latter was Roadrunner taxonomy...), your experiences with modern cats and renal disease is likely unrelated to their evolutionary renal physiologic function so much as a hazards associated with domestication and aging.

To whit: because you probably haven't known many feral Felis catus animals or what caused their demise at what age, your sampling from personal experience is biased and not reflective of the species on the whole. Most cats (by species number) are not domesticated in the behavioral sense. For them, a typical demise is much more likely to be FIV, FeLV, traumatic (automobile, dogs and other cats most common), exposure, malnutrition and starvation.

The average feral cat doesn't live to see three years of age. As far as reproduction of species goes-because of their truncated feral lifespan-they've got to squeeze out some progeny STAT. They do a pretty good job of it.

Right - my point exactly... the renal physiology of the cat family is unlikely to die out as it confers a survival advantage (ie - ability to successfully utilize water that might kill humans or other animals), and any possible disadvantage don't show up until the individual have reproduced.

An analogy might be how genetically-induced Alzheimer's disease* wouldn't naturally leave the human population by selective survival... the problem doesn't show up until after the reproductive years. Other illnesses could also be examples (i.e. polycystic kidney disease, Huntington's disease, etc.)

Of course, these illnesses might be cured by other means (i.e. gene therapy) in the future.

*note - apparently not all Alzheimer's is caused by genetic influences.

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Post #: 16433

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 10:46:39 PM

Kwik E Mart

Posts: 2447
Joined: 7/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Er... i would hope it was pretty obvious (from the examples given) that by most standard the number of genes doesn't have much to do with how "advanced" a species is.

Yes, it was pretty obvious. With the exception of myself, as I indicated.

I concur about your thoughts on diversity does not equal inception / initial introduction. So many factors influence what genetic phenotypes predominate in a given area over long stretches of evolutionary time. I haven't done an anatomic comparison between F. silvestris or Panthera spp. to juxtapose their renal physiology versus today's F. catus (and presumed geographical origins), but my loose understanding is that they're pretty darn similar.

Unless you knew most pre-Felis domesticus or Felis silvestris catus or Felis catus or Hotrodicus tidbiticus (oops-the latter was Roadrunner taxonomy...), your experiences with modern cats and renal disease is likely unrelated to their evolutionary renal physiologic function so much as a hazards associated with domestication and aging.

To whit: because you probably haven't known many feral Felis catus animals or what caused their demise at what age, your sampling from personal experience is biased and not reflective of the species on the whole. Most cats (by species number) are not domesticated in the behavioral sense. For them, a typical demise is much more likely to be FIV, FeLV, traumatic (automobile, dogs and other cats most common), exposure, malnutrition and starvation.

The average feral cat doesn't live to see three years of age. As far as reproduction of species goes-because of their truncated feral lifespan-they've got to squeeze out some progeny STAT. They do a pretty good job of it.

Right - my point exactly... the renal physiology of the cat family is unlikely to die out as it confers a survival advantage (ie - ability to successfully utilize water that might kill humans or other animals), and any possible disadvantage don't show up until the individual have reproduced.

An analogy might be how genetically-induced Alzheimer's disease* wouldn't naturally leave the human population by selective survival... the problem doesn't show up until after the reproductive years. Other illnesses could also be examples (i.e. polycystic kidney disease, Huntington's disease, etc.)

Of course, these illnesses might be cured by other means (i.e. gene therapy) in the future.

*note - apparently not all Alzheimer's is caused by genetic influences.

speaking of renal physiology...it's clear to me that cats are far more advanced than any other life form on earth...hmmm...they're probably from Mynok's neck of the woods...

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 16434

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 11:07:02 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Er... i would hope it was pretty obvious (from the examples given) that by most standard the number of genes doesn't have much to do with how "advanced" a species is.

Yes, it was pretty obvious. With the exception of myself, as I indicated.

I concur about your thoughts on diversity does not equal inception / initial introduction. So many factors influence what genetic phenotypes predominate in a given area over long stretches of evolutionary time. I haven't done an anatomic comparison between F. silvestris or Panthera spp. to juxtapose their renal physiology versus today's F. catus (and presumed geographical origins), but my loose understanding is that they're pretty darn similar.

Unless you knew most pre-Felis domesticus or Felis silvestris catus or Felis catus or Hotrodicus tidbiticus (oops-the latter was Roadrunner taxonomy...), your experiences with modern cats and renal disease is likely unrelated to their evolutionary renal physiologic function so much as a hazards associated with domestication and aging.

To whit: because you probably haven't known many feral Felis catus animals or what caused their demise at what age, your sampling from personal experience is biased and not reflective of the species on the whole. Most cats (by species number) are not domesticated in the behavioral sense. For them, a typical demise is much more likely to be FIV, FeLV, traumatic (automobile, dogs and other cats most common), exposure, malnutrition and starvation.

The average feral cat doesn't live to see three years of age. As far as reproduction of species goes-because of their truncated feral lifespan-they've got to squeeze out some progeny STAT. They do a pretty good job of it.

Right - my point exactly... the renal physiology of the cat family is unlikely to die out as it confers a survival advantage (ie - ability to successfully utilize water that might kill humans or other animals), and any possible disadvantage don't show up until the individual have reproduced.

An analogy might be how genetically-induced Alzheimer's disease* wouldn't naturally leave the human population by selective survival... the problem doesn't show up until after the reproductive years. Other illnesses could also be examples (i.e. polycystic kidney disease, Huntington's disease, etc.)

Of course, these illnesses might be cured by other means (i.e. gene therapy) in the future.

*note - apparently not all Alzheimer's is caused by genetic influences.

Ah-I get where you're going now. My genetically (or non-genetically) influenced alzheimers was having trouble keeping track of the conversation.

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Post #: 16435

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 11:24:23 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

speaking of renal physiology...it's clear to me that cats are far more advanced than any other life form on earth...hmmm...they're probably from Mynok's neck of the woods...

The really amazing thing is that's a picture of just one cat, but he's doing the time travel thing and having a laser battle with himself.

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Post #: 16436

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 11:34:33 PM

Kwik E Mart

Posts: 2447
Joined: 7/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub

Evening tithe.

Todays balcony pic; Part of the pool area.

in tomorrow's edition, please zoom in a bit more...i'm trying to determine if this is a topless resort/hotel...

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Post #: 16437

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 11:36:40 PM

Kwik E Mart

Posts: 2447
Joined: 7/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

speaking of renal physiology...it's clear to me that cats are far more advanced than any other life form on earth...hmmm...they're probably from Mynok's neck of the woods...

The really amazing thing is that's a picture of just one cat, but he's doing the time travel thing and having a laser battle with himself.

sort of a schrodinger's cat?

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Ron Swanson: Clear alcohols are for rich women on diets.

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Post #: 16438

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 3/30/2011 11:51:47 PM

ctangus