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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis)

 
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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/31/2011 11:21:27 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		In the center he is going to make the last push to isolate (I guess) Smolensk.




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/31/2011 11:24:04 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/31/2011 11:24:58 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Oh, I attacked 1 motorized regiment and 1 panzer division in the center. Both counter-attacks were successful.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/31/2011 11:30:09 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		And near Stalino he will try a last effort I guess. I am cutting 3 panzer units off. I have concentrated some hordes in this area. In theory he should be very prudent. I mean, a bold movement now might be dangerous. On next turn his panzers will be stuck... NO 7th Cavalry thing




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/31/2011 11:34:23 PM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		Did you have any industry left in any of the cities by Stalino? (or Stalino itself for that matter). You may have gotten a reprieve if you can get some rail repair guys in there to fix the rail lines AND keep him away from those cities long enough to get the industry out before snow.

He got fortunate with the panzer routing rather than being destroyed.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 3/31/2011 11:46:54 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		I've got only the armament industry in Stalino: 25... a lot He should be surrounding the city, I guess.

Humm, as for the routed panzer division, no, no luck, I think. The rescue thing was part of his plan so my hat is obviously off to him

I thought that all you needed to destroy a unit was a) surrounding it and b) attacking it (a successful attack that is) = destroyed. But it MUST be 100% isolated at the START of the turn Ths means killing a German unit is hard... A German player only needs to send the 7th cavalry. Given that the Soviet basically has only ants, you can't stop him from rescuing this unit. You can cut it off again but the cycle begins again... rescue etc.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 1:27:55 AM   
Mynok


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Yes, non-isolated units can rout out even if surrounded. And you are exactly correct on the the difficulties of destroying German units....at least until the winter. You will find the 7th cavalry turns into the Wretched Sisters of the Poor and Blind during blizzard.


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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 7:06:53 AM   
randallw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

AGGHHHH!!! I told you I should reread the manual! The case is I surrounded the panzer division I wanted to massacre then attacked but it was routed, it did not surrender... Looks like the units MUST be already surrounded at the start of the turn!!! Looks like I didn't know this!



Really, I thought you knew.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 1:55:38 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Turn 17

9 october 1941


MWHAHAHAHAHAHA! Mud will be here on next turn

I thought my situation would be worse. I thought Smolensk would be isolated: it is not! And Stalino... I still can evacuate the armaments industry! I have a question. All my armies have RR Brigades. But in order to repair rail hexes they need to be in Front HQs or these brigades assigned to armies will repair these hexes too?

Randall, no, I didn't know they [the units you want to massacre] needed to be surrounded before you move





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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 2:04:05 PM   
raizer

 

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Status: offline 		Tullius bring out the demon






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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 2:41:56 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Yes, non-isolated units can rout out even if surrounded. And you are exactly correct on the the difficulties of destroying German units....at least until the winter. You will find the 7th cavalry turns into the Wretched Sisters of the Poor and Blind during blizzard.


Yesssss... definitely, he should be getting some during the blizzard As I already said, I will be using Big Anorak's blizzard rule.

Anyway, I think the designers got it right here. Destroying a German unit before the blizzard should be really hard (if not impossible).

Raizer, demons are indeed part of my arsenal. The problem is they will be stuck too (mud) But I should unleash them during the blizzard.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 2:44:12 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Ok, now that the summer offensive is over (he still can do some sort of limited offensives during the snow turns, I guess), a summary.

The North. Well, I don't think he really wanted to take Leningrad. Interesting thing: Novgorod is in my hands




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 2:47:16 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		The Center. Like in the north, he also more or less avoided this place. He only made a more or less serious push on these last turns.

Interesting thing: I still hold Smolensk (NOT surrounded)




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 2:51:04 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		The Bryansk, Southwest general areas. In theory this is where he made his main push. Notice how he's emptied this place: he sent the panzers to the south, near Stalino.




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 2:52:58 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 3:00:46 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		My overall conclusion? Soooo, he apparently avoided both the north and the center: the places that are VITAL to me

Therefore his main advance was in the south. As you may remember, when he annihilated my Southwest Front with that sophisticated mega pocket (during the Frontier District Massacres that is), I had two choices...

1) stick to my original strategy: concentrate forces in the vital areas (Leningrad & Moscow approaches that is) = send few STAVKA strategic reserves to the South

2) reinforce the south = weaken ALL the fronts

I chose 1). And I knew that was a gamble... The thing is I think my opponent has been somewhat erratic. And even in the south his advance was not decisive. So I am obviously happy and possibly lucky as well

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 3:05:04 PM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		The repair guys will work out of armies. Big thing is to make sure that you don't have 3 units in a hex that you want repaired. Unfortunately for those 4 hexes to be repaired, it will likely take 4 turns (automatic repair units will only repair a hex next to a intact rail hex that is in supply in to your rail net).

The Axis has a lot of work to do during mud and snow to get his lines in shape for the Russian onslaught. Right now, he is going to get crushed I think with the way his lines are.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 3:15:56 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Klydon, yes, I guess the Stalino industry is possibly 70% captured - 30% saved... Making attacks during mud = CV divided by 8 That is going to be my best shield, indeed

As for the blizzard and him being crushed, humm, I'm possibly good at defending but attacking is another thing. Let's see if I can be half competent, it's all I ask. Because to be honest this I don't know

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 3:21:16 PM   
76mm


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Status: offline 		I think you're going to beat him up badly during the blizzard--what is your strength at right now? If you think it'd be helpful, I could give you a few pointers based on my on-going blizzard...

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 3:21:50 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 3:27:49 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		76mm, these are the losses, etc. Don't forget I will be using Big Anorak's blizzard rule. But yes, the winter should be terrible the same Well, at least this is what I hope!




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 4:33:27 PM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		You're in good shape, you lost lots of hexes, but that's no big deal.

I think your strategy was correct, in that taking Leningrad is priority #1 for the Axis. It is a big population and production center, and helps greatly in your defense by freeing the Finns.

As the game progresses, it's also important for defending Finland, which will become a priority for the Axis. The Finns are tough, but their achillies heel is pitifully low replacements. They can be ground down.

In 1944, the Axis can set the Finns up on the 3 hexes of the Neva River line. Finnish units in Heavy Urban and accross the Major Rivers will be very tough (though vulnerable in Winter...). Up North, there are several 4-hex wide chokepoints with good terrain that make an approach from that direction problematic for the Russians. It also doesn't get you closer to Vyborg, which is the main objective in 1944.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 5:38:38 PM   
cookie monster


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Status: offline 		RR Brigades will work out of Stavka & Front HQ's.

It's probably better to have them work out of Stavka for flexibility for the First Winters gains.

I've had Stavka RR Brigades fixing rail by Baku! When Stavka was in Moscow.

So that's how much operational flexibility you get.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 6:44:03 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

You're in good shape, you lost lots of hexes, but that's no big deal.

I think your strategy was correct, in that taking Leningrad is priority #1 for the Axis. It is a big population and production center, and helps greatly in your defense by freeing the Finns.

As the game progresses, it's also important for defending Finland, which will become a priority for the Axis. The Finns are tough, but their achillies heel is pitifully low replacements. They can be ground down.

In 1944, the Axis can set the Finns up on the 3 hexes of the Neva River line. Finnish units in Heavy Urban and accross the Major Rivers will be very tough (though vulnerable in Winter...). Up North, there are several 4-hex wide chokepoints with good terrain that make an approach from that direction problematic for the Russians. It also doesn't get you closer to Vyborg, which is the main objective in 1944.


What I don't know is this: hadn't I reinforced the north and the center maybe 2ndACR would have concentrated more forces here and tried to grab Moscow or Leningrad (or both).

I only know what happened: a main thrust in the south (well, he kept Panzers in the north, but in a passive role, which should be a mistake per se). But was this his original plan? Or when he saw I massively reinforced the Leningrad and Moscow approaches maybe he was "invited" to advance towards a very weak south? In fact on my first AAR I had said this: I will ALWAYS use this strategy on the first 17 turns of the Grand Campaign. If I were to start a third game I would do exactly the same Now if that hypothetical 3rd opponent sends let's say the 80% of his armored forces to the south... I will simply concentrate forces there (as long as I 100% know Moscow and Leningrad are 100% safe). If it's not the case, then it will be a free ride for him. Simple as that

quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster
RR Brigades will work out of Stavka & Front HQ's.

It's probably better to have them work out of Stavka for flexibility for the First Winters gains.

I've had Stavka RR Brigades fixing rail by Baku! When Stavka was in Moscow.

So that's how much operational flexibility you get.


I didn't know that: the STAVKA thing. In fact I have only assigned support units to Armies, NOT to fronts. So during the mud there's going to be a massive reorganization. I am going to assign 3 or 4 RR Bdes to Front HQs and like 10 to Stavka

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 7:06:59 PM   
cookie monster


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Status: offline 		The Front attached RR Brigades only work there local area.

Stavka go 900 miles.

I fixed rail in my first game from Stalingrad to Poland, so I should know it by now.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 9:08:34 PM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		I don't know that I would attach so many rail repair guys to Stavka and the reason is that they serve a dual purpose with armies in helping to dig and in repairing rails. Stavka, they are only going to repair rails. Not saying don't assign a few there, but I would not go crazy with it.

As far as what his objectives were and what actually happen, that is something he did state, but we can't tell you. You are of course free to ask him and he might tell you. I will have comments on this at some point, but obviously can't here at the moment.

Right now, I think the Russians are going to hurt and abuse the Axis in the winter. Unless the Axis have a great 3 turns of snow and he manages to pull a rabbit out of the hat somehow, then I think the Axis are in deep, deep trouble.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 9:21:33 PM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		Front HQs 'hold' a maximum of 3 construction units; anything above that they may run away and move up/down the command chain, unless you lock that HQ.

There's also a minimum amount that HQs like to have; Stavka requires none so those 10 you put there may run off to a Front HQ; Fronts attempt to collect and keep 15.

Collecting support units is like a little game in itself.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 9:59:01 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Ok, there is a MASSIVE reorganization. Up north, the 7th and 23rd armies facing the Finnish have been attached to STAVKA itself.




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 10:12:44 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		In Leningrad area his forces have retreated some hexes, behind the Luga River. His Panzers had taken this hexes when he charged like a bull in the center.

The case is now I am 2 hexes closer to Berlin! If he wants these hexes again he will need to dislodge me... mud... CV divided by 8... please go ahead...

I am also diverting most of the 49 Army (attached to STAVKA) to the south to cover the positions held by Northwest Front armies. There is a massive accordion movement. The turn will take time




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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/1/2011 10:18:44 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Now the Northwest Front is covering the area between the Lakes Ilmen and Selinger. Perhaps this front is too "short"




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