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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 4:43:10 AM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		I think the second plan has some issues in that the rail line between is left intact and he can potentially rail out a lot of units if need be or rail in a lot of troops. 

The other thing that will be going on soon is the effect the Russian tank corps movement will have on breaking German encirclements. I say movement because they move a lot faster than anything the Germans are used to seeing, but they are about 1 step above being a beer can in durability.

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Post #: 421
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 6:01:57 AM   
cpt flam


Posts: 2352
Joined: 1/16/2011
From: caen - France
Status: offline 		a quick overview from soviet side
for the first time from long away I have some ARM points
manpower pool is now less than a million
I have begin to reform some units


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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 1:54:14 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Is this normal? I ask because it is fairly early on a saturday morning, I am without coffee so far, and I don't recall seeing all zeros before - well, except in my exam scores.





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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 1:56:17 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Theoretically it might be possible if refitting units absorb all replacements, but I've never seen values of 0, the lowest I've seen were a few hundred men.

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Post #: 424
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 1:56:21 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Also, my negative manpower situation is worrying, in the long run negative soldiers could hurt me.





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Post #: 425
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 2:14:34 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Obviously you need to flog your propaganda troops for not meeting their quota of getting Russian solders to join your army! 

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 2:36:50 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		0 replacements in the normal replacement phase is possible, Pavel confirmed it. I've posted that you have negative manpower.

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Post #: 427
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/9/2011 9:08:23 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 886
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		i think you have to send this negative human mass result to CERN.

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 12:00:51 AM   
Mynok


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Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Yikes...negative manpower.....does that mean a certain number of soldiers turn into women each turn?


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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 12:30:41 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Enough with the negative waves, Moriarty

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 12:40:11 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Frauen am front,
Frauen am front,
machen die Russkies,
menschlich sofort!




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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 3:30:28 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Thankfully manpower is up to zero by the time the clear-mud-clear-mud cycle starts. I was forced to make all soldiers from Field Marshall down reassigned to rifle units.

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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 432
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 4:08:26 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Pictures later - the first clear turn was anti-climactic. The tanks are still resting, the infantry still whining, and a cheeky little spoiling invasion in the Crimea had to be cleaned up.

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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 433
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 7:26:25 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Bob or others probably don't care anymore, but the most exciting thing happening is my reports of strength and replacements. As you can see, still pretty healthy.





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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 434
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 7:27:47 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Replacements. At least some get through!




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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 435
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 7:31:18 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Manpower - Here our "Strength through Pizzas" campaign has paid off, as the negative Germans have gone. The last thing we need is negativity!






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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 7:59:27 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Here is the problem I face. While it is the first clear turn since waaaaay back when, my tanks are not strong enough. 11th panzer only has 64 ready tanks in it. This might work in turn 2 or three of an offensive, but not to open the attacks. Time is needed.





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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 437
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 8:02:28 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		And for those who worried that the 402nd Bicycle Recon might have had a rough winter busting through drifts in their mountain bikes, here they are!






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< Message edited by PeeDeeAitch -- 4/11/2011 4:26:32 AM >

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 8:07:18 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Whats happened to thier "30+" morale boost as an "Elite" unit?

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Post #: 439
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 8:09:27 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		It appears the 11th panzer must immediately start attacking if it wishes to fix the tank issue since it has T-34's there.

Actually for the 11th ToE (75%) is pretty good. I don't know that it will get a lot more tanks with your two biggest elements well over 80% for tanks. You certainly are not building T-34's and I don't think panzer II's are really going to make that big of a difference for you, but then I could be wrong on that.

Maybe attach some battalions to pump it up some in areas you are concerned about? 

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Post #: 440
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 8:14:12 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Whats happened to thier "30+" morale boost as an "Elite" unit?


It is the "near supermen" boost you refer to, and it is hidden.

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/10/2011 8:15:34 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

It appears the 11th panzer must immediately start attacking if it wishes to fix the tank issue since it has T-34's there.

Actually for the 11th ToE (75%) is pretty good. I don't know that it will get a lot more tanks with your two biggest elements well over 80% for tanks. You certainly are not building T-34's and I don't think panzer II's are really going to make that big of a difference for you, but then I could be wrong on that.

Maybe attach some battalions to pump it up some in areas you are concerned about? 


Actually, I showed this because it is one the best panzer divisions I have

It is the ones that are at 6-7 CV that worry me. At the very least, those units need time in refit to get their morale back up.

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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 442
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 3:47:36 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		You know what plan I will likely try. My opponent knows what plan I will likely try. The bulge is too tempting, and I do have all my panzer armies ready to try. The problems are obvious. Given the weather, if I try this before full summer, I have to do it in one turn. Also, I have to (no matter what else) cut the rail lines leading out of the bulge.

All this through at least three lines of defense, ready and dug in for at least a month now. Sounds like a larger, more foolhardy Kursk a year earlier.

Below is a map of one way to do this, and where I need to get to at the very least. One panzer army north and south (after whatever pathetic infantry attacks I have) busts through and holds the pocket open, one follows and takes out any additional obstacles while - hopefully - one panzer corps from each reaches the magic line to encircle. Right now, I do not think it can be done - even with panzers full of gas and having rested through the mud. Of course, the Red Army just gets stronger, but this is one of those problems. Only I know if I will wait.






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< Message edited by PeeDeeAitch -- 4/11/2011 3:49:36 AM >

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Post #: 443
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 3:49:39 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		I would post more pics here of the panzers, but too much intel is not good. Let's just say that the tanks are rather puny now in certain cases.

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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 444
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 3:58:17 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Pros for the plan:

1) The major rivers have been crossed, the bridgeheads are fully linked to the rail system, most of the minor rivers (excepting one in the north) run north-south.
2) The infantry in both north and south bridgeheads are strong enough to at least help blow through the initial line of defenses
3) The armor will have full movement
4) At the worst, the Panzers have 2 more turns of refitting before attack - this can help CV

Cons:
1) Right now is Clear-Mud-Clear phases. Failure to close the pocket firmly, and I mean airtight, means likely no reclosing the next turn in mud. While some would still be pocketed, quite a few would get out. Worst case, spearheads could be cut off for the mud turn.
2) He knows where I will try, he has several good lines of lvl 3 and 4 forts in the way.
3) The panzers are brittle, and will lose CV even faster now in combats. They all might be +50% CV by June, but that is likely too late.

All in all, it seems dicey, but that's what dreams are made of.

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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 4:00:43 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Finally, and some here might find this funny, I am not really a "prepared battle" sort of guy. I guess I am too much a seat of the pants player, and thus this offensive, whatever I decide, has to start that way before mobility is regained.

Maybe I should resign and appoint Manstein.


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"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 4:18:20 AM   
AKCLIMBER

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 11/22/2010
From: Juneau, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

And for those who worries that the 402nd Bicycle Recon might have had a rough winter busting through drifts in their mountain bikes, here they are!



Those guys are studs! Towing anti-tank and infantry guns across the vast Russian steppes, thru dust, mud, blizzards, snow, the hail of deadly gunfire and artillery - all with their 1930's era heavy, steel, single(?) speed bikes. Supermen indeed!

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Post #: 447
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 4:26:59 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

Those guys are studs! Towing anti-tank and infantry guns across the vast Russian steppes, thru dust, mud, blizzards, snow, the hail of deadly gunfire and artillery - all with their 1930's era heavy, steel, single(?) speed bikes. Supermen indeed!


At least the mortars can be towed in little carts or maybe red wagons, the bigger guns must take teams of bikes and complex harnesses. Realize that they pedaled these over the Valdai Hills too!

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

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Post #: 448
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 4:51:58 AM   
CapAndGown


Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		Well, after winning the Tour de France, the Tour de Belorus has got to be a cakewalk.

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Post #: 449
RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... - 4/11/2011 5:12:55 AM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		It is rather obvious to try that. Pull it off and likely bag close to 50 divisions if he has one every hex on that frontage and a few reserves.

Part of the issue is does he think he can hold where he is, even tho he knows you are going to try it. If he has not been pulling back, then that seems to indicate he thinks he can hold. He could also have a very hot reception waiting on you in the middle. Depending on how many tank corps he has, your spearheads are going to go through a cycle of getting cut off and being put back into supply (hopefully) along with him making contact with the pocket, getting it rebroken, etc. The point being you can't start to liquidate the pocket very quickly because he won't be isolated. You could also meet some nasty infantry corps there as well. All in all, it could be a lot like a Kursk type of battle in that you are going to take a lot of casualties trying it and also a ton of time. Two differences between Kursk and this is that his tank corps are a lot better in 43 than they are in 42 and he has mech in 43, but not for most of 42.

While not ideal, I would assume there are some less well defended places on the board or perhaps you look at launching an attack from Orel east and look at meeting up with the northern pincer. This is approximately 13 hexes or so compared to 25 or so for the "big move" and should result in less exposure for your panzers, allow you to keep some panzers in reserve, and clean out the pocket that much faster. The southern half of the pocket would become more vulnerable since it would not have a unfortified northern flank open and he either has to withdraw or risks another easy encirclement.


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