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Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:13:54 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		This is how it looked before I ( Soviet ) moved anything in turn two. In turn 1 William ( Ketza ) captured everything important and
isolated everything else. Truly a great job. I'd like to know step by step how he did that. I've practiced turn 1 Axis moves and have
never even come close to this result. Wow. And here in turn two he has zoomed forward isolating and threatening thrusts in multiple
directions. [ Sorry I didn't have the state of mind to capture a turn one screenshot. I was in a state of shock and awe. ]




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/14/2011 8:18:02 PM >
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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:20:20 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the turn 3 front lines before I moved anything. Notice how I'm attempting to use the checkerboard defense in selected areas
of the map. It's still very early in the game and no reinforcements from the far east have had time to reach the front lines yet. So the
checkerboard defense is all I have left to use. Not enough units to try a carpet defense anywhere.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/14/2011 8:22:54 PM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:24:48 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the turn 4 front lines before I moved anything. Now that the rail is cut between Lgrad and Russia Lgrad is doomed. It's just a matter of time now.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/14/2011 8:26:37 PM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:28:18 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's the turn 5 front lines before I have moved anything.




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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:29:49 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Did you not cut his AGN panzers off on turn 2? From the screenshot I think it was more than possible And perhaps even the AGC Panzers could have been cut off. If you didn't, then yes, that's a free ride for him

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/14/2011 8:30:02 PM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:33:12 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's the turn 6 front lines before I've moved anything.




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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:35:55 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
Did you not cut his AGN panzers off on turn 2? From the screenshot I think it was more than possible And perhaps even the AGC Panzers could have been cut off. If you didn't, then yes, that's a free ride for him

I'm kind of new at this. Can you tell?

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:39:01 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's the turn 7 front lines before I moved anything.




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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:41:33 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's the turn 8 front lines before I moved anything.




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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:42:44 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
Did you not cut his AGN panzers off on turn 2? From the screenshot I think it was more than possible And perhaps even the AGC Panzers could have been cut off. If you didn't, then yes, that's a free ride for him

I'm kind of new at this. Can you tell?


Sure Don't forget isolated units = LESS fuel and supplies. They would NOT have advanced = you would have bought one turn.

I very much suspect a similar movement was possible in the center, to isolate his other DANGEROUS spearhead




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< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/14/2011 8:43:55 PM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:43:40 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's how it looks now in turn 9 before the Soviets moved anything.




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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:45:48 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
Sure Don't forget isolated units = LESS fuel and supplies. They would NOT have advanced = you would have bought one turn.
I very much suspect a similar movement was possible in the center, to isolate his other DANGEROUS spearhead

Thank you very much for that insight. I hadn't even thought of that. I was busy running away everywhere and didn't notice the possibilities.

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 8:49:36 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		You're welcome The problem is this might cost you Leningrad and perhaps Moscow. You are allowing him to do what he wants

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 9:24:28 PM   
Aurelian

 

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Status: offline 		I learned the hard way not to run. Sure, you keep your losses low, but so does he.

You have to slow him down so you can get defense lines built in front of Lgrad and Moscow.

You have to be willing to take losses.

There's a time for checkerboard, linebacker, and carpet defenses. The trick is to know which to use, and when.

Something I'm slowly learning

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/14/2011 9:41:46 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Status: offline 		Yes, it's true that the cemetery is full of heroes and that those who run away save their lives and might fight later but during the Blitzkrieg you should try to stop the fascist hordes. If you don't the outcome is pretty obvious: Siberia in the bag too I like to think I am really in charge of the whole thing. Leningrad and Moscow must NOT surrender (as per history).

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/14/2011 9:42:12 PM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 12:21:01 AM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		May want to keep an eye on when you get re-enforcements. I notice that most everything around Moscow is attached to the Moscow military district, which means that HQ is really overloaded. You also have the Reserve Front that came in the turn after that and you could have attached a lot of those Stavka re-enforcements to the Reserve Front. It also looks like Western, Bryansk, and North Western Fronts are under manned as well as far as troops attached. While none of these things will stop what is going on as far as the German push goes, it is something important to learn about.



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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 1:32:50 AM   
DTurtle

 

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Status: offline 		The thing is, you have some 50-70 or so divisions sitting around Moscow not helping the fight at all - until and unless he runs into that line and attacks straight into those defenses.

You are basically fighting with one or two hands tied behind your back - no wonder he is able to break through and exploit almost at will.

You have to get those forces out of Moscow and into the fight (especially the South) otherwise you will find out that you still have Moscow but have lost the rest of the map. You can - in one turn - take two thirds of those forces and rail them around the penetration at Kharkov and start pressuring him there. He will not be able to fight very well as his supply lines should be quite long because of the fast advance.

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 1:52:01 AM   
Da_Huge_D

 

Posts: 195
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Status: offline 		Let me put some reference picture. Here's game im playing as soviets; It's turn 7 and look how stabile things are. Every front have its 'own' territory (see color codes) and they're very clear looking, and also i like to keep em historical lol. In this situation my supply works like charm. You should keep your fronts at size 3-5 armies, and every army at size 9-10 divisions + some tanks + cavalry. Also keep in eye of SU's and evade using units in combat who are straight assigned to STAVKA.



< Message edited by Da_Huge_D -- 4/15/2011 1:56:50 AM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 2:40:02 AM   
hfarrish

 

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Status: offline 		I'll second all this - after losing big on round one you need to pick your spots to reorganize, and make sure they are not so far back from the front line that you give up everything for free. In the South, you always have enough units to plant one on every motorized/panzer unit and give him headaches for months. True, you will lose guys but it will give you time to build up a line on the Dnepr up to the Smolensk landbridge. There, it is key to build a line several units deep, which will take him some time to work through and also give you opportunities for counterattacks. You also want to make sure to build a strong line from Novgorod NW along that river that runs up to the west of Leningrad. You should have enough units to both annoy him on the front (knowing you will lose a lot of the guys) while building reasonable lines in the rear. It will take him sometime to reorganize once he hits these lines, since he will be out of supply and you will be dug in. Oh yeah, always stick units in the swamps guarding the Crimea...my opponents have always eventually broken through but far too late to seriously challenge Sevasopol.

If you pull that off, you can still lose here and there (maybe Leningrad, maybe some in the South, probably not Moscow) but you won't get totally thrashed in 41. Also - don't worry too much about reorganizing your command structure in the front, but try to get army HQs along your lines to the rear and build at least two RR construction brigades per...these guys will speed your digging in while providing essential RR repair support when you switch to the offensive.

< Message edited by hfarrish -- 4/15/2011 2:42:00 AM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 3:40:50 AM   
Bamilus


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Status: offline 		Larry Fulkerson AAR - definitely will be following this one :)

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 3:58:24 AM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Whoa.  Lots of good ideas and stuff I never thought of.  Thanks loads guys.  Really.  I'll get busy and reorganize things and see if I can't turn this around.  Somewhat.

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 5:36:42 AM   
larryfulkerson


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Status: offline 		Here's the turn 10 front lines before I moved anything. Leningrad is gone. I bet the emphasis is on Moscow now.




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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 7:41:34 AM   
76mm


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Status: offline 		Looks depressingly familiar...I'm now out of the blizzard with Ketza and he is beating up on me again...

A couple of words of advice: he is pretty aggressive, rarely misses an opportunity for a pocket, and I think he uses HQ buildup quite a bit, so even into late summer and fall his panzers can move shocking (to me) distances...you really have to have a checkerboard everywhere, particularly behind your main line, just to slow him down.

One of the biggest problems I have with Ketza is that I find him to be pretty unpredictable, which along with the lousy Sov recon ability can make things pretty scary.

I think you are at grave risk of losing Moscow, the area between Vishny Volochok and Yaroslavl (the Sonkovo corridor) seems to be a natural invastion path. At least with me, he was very passive with the Finns after taking Lgrad, I will be interested to see if he uses them more aggressively with you.


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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 8:38:04 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
A couple of words of advice....

Thanks for the advice I'll pay attention to it avidly.

Here's the turn 11 front lines before any movement.




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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/15/2011 11:32:46 PM   
DTurtle

 

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Status: offline 		Could you turn the hex control on for the screenshots? It makes the frontlines easier to see.

Be careful - his panzers barely moved last turn, which means they can make a large lunge this turn.

As far as I can see, he can try to make a lunge for Tula in the North, try a pocket of everything west of the line Kharkov->Kursk->Orel, or try a lunge for Stalino.

Personally, I would expect the pocket attempt, as his supply lines have to be extremely long already. With the pocket he has a chance to destroy a significant part of your ground forces, enabling him to advance again once that pocket is digested and the rail repair has caught up.

What does your industry look like? Just how much has been lost so far?

Edit: Honestly, looking at the map, you will lose everything on the line Moscow-Tula-Orel-Kursk-Kharkov-Stalino-maybe Rostov.

Your goal at this point has to be delay, delay, delay. You have to stop giving him these huge empty spaces he can drive freely through with his forces. You have two (!) divisions between his forces and Tula. You have four or five between his forces and Stalino. Your goal at this point is not to stop him, but just buy enough time to evacuate as much industry as possible. Take a good hard look at where your factories are standing and make sure that he can't get there before you can evacuate them.

< Message edited by DTurtle -- 4/15/2011 11:45:48 PM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/16/2011 4:51:01 AM   
76mm


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Status: offline 		If I had to guess, I'd say he's going to try to pocket all of those units west of Kursk, I would pull back all of those units as quickly as possible. I think he will also lunge for Stalino, thus cutting your rail line to the west. All of those units around Zaporozhye and Dnepro are begging to be bagged--you really need to pull them back NOW.

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/16/2011 10:40:25 AM   
Da_Huge_D

 

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Status: offline 		Honestly, biggest problem in this situation is, that Larry doesn't just have any static line - Okay there's some kind of strong point around Moscow, but everything else is just remnants, whatever.
Biggest objective in first turns as Soviet Union is to build solid line all way from Lgrad to Black sea. It can be done in 3-4 turns. When the first line is being cracked by Axis, then you gotta start to build another line in somewhere back immidiately, and reinforce old line's hole with some divisions to bug Axis advance down. Soviet player receives tons of divisions on first turns so there shouldnt be lack of troops. As i said earlier, evade overloading some fronts, i see that your situation there isnt much troops in Southern front or Northwest front at all, use these fronts too. Now you have overloaded only couple fronts (like southwest (which is teared apart within 500km lol)).

< Message edited by Da_Huge_D -- 4/16/2011 10:43:43 AM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/16/2011 11:08:18 AM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Da_Huge_D
Biggest objective in first turns as Soviet Union is to build solid line all way from Lgrad to Black sea. It can be done in 3-4 turns. When the first line is being cracked by Axis, then you gotta start to build another line in somewhere back immidiately, and reinforce old line's hole with some divisions to bug Axis advance down. Soviet player receives tons of divisions on first turns so there shouldnt be lack of troops.


Don't know about that, once you lose a couple of big pockets, you can really start running out of divisions. In my game against Ketza, in the south after a couple of pockets, I literally had NOTHING other than depleted units (and airbases!) to put in front of him for a couple of turns.

Obviously the key is to avoid the pockets in the first place, but it is kind of late for that now.


< Message edited by 76mm -- 4/16/2011 11:09:07 AM >

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/16/2011 12:41:18 PM   
squatter

 

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Status: offline 		I think a lot of advice that comes in comes from players who haven't yet faced a strong German opponent.

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RE: Fulkerson of Ketza vs Fulkerson - 4/16/2011 2:50:47 PM   
Da_Huge_D

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter

I think a lot of advice that comes in comes from players who haven't yet faced a strong German opponent.


Maybe your're right.

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