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War in the Fog

 
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War in the Fog - 9/24/2002 6:34:31 PM   
lentullus

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/24/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		One of the best features of the original games was the really low level of information about the enemy. The china-marker interface was actually a great plus for that, not a compromise -- mine always ended up covered wiht notes about what I thought the enemy was up to.

Will you be retaining the original foggyness? Your map preview showed unit id's on both sides, I hope that I will see less detail on my opponent. Also, it would be really neat of I could put my own "markers" or even better notes, on the map.

StJohn did a great job with the first version, you have a lot to live up to. :)
Post #: 1
Re: War in the Fog - 9/24/2002 6:59:31 PM   
IronManBeta


Posts: 4132
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by lentullus
[B]
StJohn did a great job with the first version, you have a lot to live up to. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh great, more pressure! Steve St. John (and later Steve Newberg) did indeed do a great job. The whole thing had to fit into 64k and run on a Commodore 64 so a premium was put good design and clever execution. SSJ and I worked together for a while on a pair of Napoleonic games (his got published, mine died on the vine) and it was a real pleasure talking to him and chewing over some of these kinds of issues.

Fog of War. For brand new players you can turn on 'auto spotting' which allows all units to be revealed to the player (but not necessarily each other) at all times. The screen shot you saw was from one of those set-ups. Once you learn the game though you can turn it off and play it the real way. I've spent the last week doing that and even though I know exactly what is going on, I still get the willies as I send my tank regiment yet again into the void where I just know a substantial cavalry force is lurking. Nothing beats the experience of actually having to probe on your own and find things out the hard way.

Early testing indicates that I may need to add a semi-automatic mode. This would represent individual vehicles and foot patrols out on recon and would detect most enemy units say within 2 km automatically. Otherwise I might have to put a lot more tiny recon units on the map to do the job under manual control, and that is not really consistent with the viewpoint of the game.

The other big fog of war item was the delayed sitreps. You don't know how the unit is doing until it reports in and then you don't know again until it reports in again. The combat info describing the unit state is timestamped and can be quite old. You have to look at it and realize that it may be 40 minutes past and the unit has been fighting since and could be all but dead, not as shown. Fun and games.

Notes on map. Sadly no, it would compromise graphics performance too much! You will just have to write them on paper. There is a 'staff diary' function that captures much of the text output of the old game into a journal that you can then save or print. Maybe that would help? Nothing beats working directly with the map though....

Cheers, Rob.

(in reply to lentullus)
Post #: 2
- 9/25/2002 1:48:59 AM   
lentullus

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/24/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Notes on map. Sadly no, it would compromise graphics performance too much! You will just have to write them on paper. There is a 'staff diary' function that captures much of the text output of the old game into a journal that you can then save or print. Maybe that would help? Nothing beats working directly with the map though.... [/QUOTE]

Here's a thought:
Give me a limited number of "note pins" Let me stick them where I want on the map -- the graphics code can treat them like unit markers. Bring up associated text as an explict "open" or a hover over like a tool tip -- on the side as needed.

I know -- killing things right is FAR more important. Maybe release 2.7 :)

[QUOTE]I still get the willies as I send my tank regiment yet again into the void where I just know a substantial cavalry force is lurking. [/QUOTE]

... I really liked the way the enemy artillery would blast you if you spent too much time on the radio.:cool:

(in reply to lentullus)
Post #: 3
- 9/25/2002 2:18:44 AM   
IronManBeta


Posts: 4132
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by lentullus
[B]

... I really liked the way the enemy artillery would blast you if you spent too much time on the radio.:cool: [/B][/QUOTE]

It still does! Plus now it shows a little gauge of how much radio traffic has been going in and out over the last hour. There is a green zone, a yellow zone and a perilous looking red zone. If you do any micro management at all it will peg the meter at the upper end of the red zone and you will find out in a hurry why that is not such a good idea!

Cheers, Rob.

(in reply to lentullus)
Post #: 4
- 9/26/2002 6:21:48 PM   
lentullus

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/24/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		RobertCrandall said:

[QUOTE]Early testing indicates that I may need to add a semi-automatic mode. This would represent individual vehicles and foot patrols out on recon and would detect most enemy units say within 2 km automatically.[/QUOTE]

Two suggestions:
[list=1]
  • Do not even think about this as automatic. Think "units will conduct local reconaissance operations in a way and to an extent appriate to the local conditions and the unit's mission, and with an effectiveness appropriate to their doctrine, training and conditions in effect at the time."
  • Having thought that way, when will an "automatic 2km" rule not be right? For example Soviet Catagory C or German territorials pinned down and under artillery fire and close assault are not going to recce as effectively as a first line Jaeger battalion of a Panzer division doing an advance to contact.
    [/list=1]

    I agree 110% that this should not be the role of the higher level command. Viewpoint was a key success factor in the original games.

    (in reply to lentullus)
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