RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis)

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/12/2011 11:51:35 PM

Aditia

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this is the sig from hell ./o\

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 12:36:38 AM

TulliusDetritus

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Just let this thing die and reach the bottom of the page, please

R.I.P.

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Post #: 632

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 4:13:47 AM

Klydon

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Sorry TD, I can't let this one go without my 2 cents in here.

You have great AAR's that many people find entertaining and are obviously interested in. (lot of views, etc).

Don't let some idiot who is mad at the world ruin it for the rest of us over the signature crap. If he has heartburn with it, then he is more than free to use the green button and not bother visiting this AAR.

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)

Post #: 633

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 4:24:32 AM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Sorry TD, I can't let this one go without my 2 cents in here.

You have great AAR's that many people find entertaining and are obviously interested in. (lot of views, etc).

Don't let some idiot who is mad at the world ruin it for the rest of us over the signature crap. If he has heartburn with it, then he is more than free to use the green button and not bother visiting this AAR.

I agree.

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 634

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 4:28:02 AM

Mynok

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Do not let trolls drive you away. That is what they want.

Use the green button on him.

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"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

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Post #: 635

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 4:59:22 AM

pompack

Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
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What they said

I have learned a great deal just watching the way you worked the 41 defense. Now I want to see how you do the blizzard

< Message edited by pompack -- 4/13/2011 5:00:21 AM >

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Post #: 636

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 6:57:11 AM

Reconvet

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Joined: 1/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

No no, you got it wrong. I CONTINUE the game. I simply f*ck off to the WitP forum

Well, good to hear this game is not over for you.

I just hope you can reconsider your decision not to continue this AAR because of trolling incidents. I'd really miss this lecture, I learned a lot here and it really was good entertainment so far.

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The biggest threat for mankind is ignorance.

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)

Post #: 637

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 1:05:35 PM

TulliusDetritus

Posts: 5521
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I appreciate what you say

The truth is I am having fun playing the game (and that's what really matters) and I am also having fun doing this AAR (I try to keep it humourous, as Cookie Monster said, you don't have to take "war" too seriously). This was not supposed to be a guide that might help other players. Just like on my other game I was expecting to lose Moscow, Leningrad...

So I guess all I need is to stay away from the general forum and stay on this AAR section. And that's what I will be doing. I am still waiting for the patch, since that's what 2ndACR wants.

76mm, maybe I am underestimating what the Germans can do when an utter competent player is in charge

But maybe you are underestimating what the zillions of Soviet counters can do. These MANY forces can be put to very good use.

I do not think I am that good (I only played like 50 PBEM turns, that's not a lot). And of course I don't think 2ndACR is an utter incompetent, not even close. We are basically playing on the same league so I have to conclude that yes, your most vital places CAN be defended. But you have to concentrate your forces. As I already said somewhere the Germans are ALREADY concentrating their forces (the Panzer Armies: that's a lot of mobility and fire power in x place). It would be idiotic to not do the same (as the Soviet). It would be like fighting with one arm tied behind your back.

I mean, the Soviets are not that doomed during the Blitzkrieg. If they were I should agree with those who defend the "German Supermen" thing.

As for the blizzard, I really have no idea, Pompack. I will push my opponent back, that's 100% certain

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Post #: 638

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 2:59:39 PM

PeeDeeAitch

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From: Laramie, Wyoming
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TD, I can understand why sniping, comments, and other assorted idiocy can get you down - it has happened (happening) to me. No need to bolt. Just don't put me on green.

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- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)

Post #: 639

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 3:42:10 PM

Reconvet

Posts: 355
Joined: 1/17/2011
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I fully agree with PeeDee.

I'm not a veteran forum participant, still doing my first active steps, and my first conclusion: Don't let yourself get dragged down by idiots, don't get tempted to try and reason with hopeless ignorants.

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The biggest threat for mankind is ignorance.

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Post #: 640

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 4:59:14 PM

DTurtle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

76mm, maybe I am underestimating what the Germans can do when an utter competent player is in charge But maybe you are underestimating what the zillions of Soviet counters can do. These MANY forces can be put to very good use.

I do not think I am that good (I only played like 50 PBEM turns, that's not a lot). And of course I don't think 2ndACR is an utter incompetent, not even close. We are basically playing on the same league so I have to conclude that yes, your most vital places CAN be defended. But you have to concentrate your forces. As I already said somewhere the Germans are ALREADY concentrating their forces (the Panzer Armies: that's a lot of mobility and fire power in x place). It would be idiotic to not do the same (as the Soviet). It would be like fighting with one arm tied behind your back.

I mean, the Soviets are not that doomed during the Blitzkrieg. If they were I should agree with those who defend the "German Supermen" thing.

Don't sell yourself short - you are playing a great game. At the very worst it is an extremely fun AAR to read.

After finally having the game for a few days, I have to say that there is a lot to learn. Trying the 41 GC as the Soviets, I find that even though I apparently have many forces, it is extremely easy to overcommit in one sector and therefore have too little in the important sector.

So far I think that that is the biggest lesson that a Soviet player has to learn: Exactly how little you can put in directly in front of the German advance so that you have enough forces to dig defensive lines in advance and to focus your hordes where they are needed. It was quite eye opening, when I realised I could take three or so full armies from the southern sector - where the AI is advancing extremely slowly - and transport them all to Leningrad within two turns. Though it did completely kill any chance of having a coherent OOB - I try to at least have my armies together, but keeping those armies in the fronts they are supposed to bein is close to impossible so far.

Anyway, enough of such "analysis" and "thinking" and "learning" - I want to see the bears chasing the girl with the fish again!

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)

Post #: 641

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/13/2011 6:56:53 PM

TulliusDetritus

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DTurtle, the Soviets did exactly that: send Stavka reserve armies to the most important sector (Moscow approaches that is). It's simply what I did on my TWO games (I did not need to invent anything: just do what the Soviets did, except the big trapped pockets LOL). I'm possibly the only one who sent the 16 army (in Ukraine) to the center (on my two games). On this game this army managed to cut the AGC panzers off on turn 2, 3 and 4, if I remember correctly. In other words, they managed to slow the enemy down: and that was their mission whilst the armies that should cover the Dnper were arriving...

The Russian Civil War was also an inspiration (to me). This war was ALL about CONSTANTLY moving reserves from front A to B, then C, and then A again. They [the Soviets] always concentrated their forces in the most important strategic area. And therefore weakened the other fronts.

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/14/2011 8:09:03 PM >

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 12:55:35 AM

2ndACR

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I have not read but for all you interested, I have emailed Tillius that 1.04 is out and we can upgrade and start the winter.

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)

Post #: 643

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 2:03:58 AM

TulliusDetritus

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Alright, let the massac... er game continue

By the way, I will tell 2ndACR that he can read (if he wants) this AAR. At least until page 18 (when I started talking about the blizzard strategy, and I am not sure this will be my strategy). Not a lot of Top Secrets. Right now he has to know I concentrate my forces, etc. etc. So no big deal.

In other words, if you see his name on this AAR, it's because I allowed him to visit this place

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Post #: 644

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 3:47:13 AM

Aurelian

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Now, you know how Beria feels about secrets......

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Post #: 645

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 7:04:16 PM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Now, you know how Beria feels about secrets......

Yes, I will need to watch my back... Beria's thugs...

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Post #: 646

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 8:17:27 PM

TulliusDetritus

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And a strategic issue: my defensive campaign during 1942.

Yes, I have to think about that. In the real war, the Soviets were defending a big area behind their front line. Even in 1943 they were defending areas 300 km behind the front (I have the data on one book).

Soooo. I have two choices: Fortified Regions and Infantry Brigades. I want to create defensive lines behind the front. Multiple lines in critical areas: Moscow and Leningrad. Unlike many players I think the FRs are VERY useful. To me a fort level >= 2, 3 or 4 is far better than a fort level 0

So, if my opponent pushes me in the '42 campaign I want to have prepared defensive lines...

I think I won't be using the infantry brigades during the blizzard. They should be digging to prepare these defensive lines (if not all, most of them). Same thing with FRs. I guess I'll be creating minimum 2 or 3 every turn.

Saving APS to create Cavalry Cops is an a posteriori thinking

You do that because you know there will be a successful blizzard offensive. But in the real war the Soviets did not know that. They had to think about their defensive lines... about surviving. Therefore I will save APS to create these lines.

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 8:28:33 PM

TulliusDetritus

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My command. As you can see, I was not ignoring the southern part of the map. When I said I would be concentrating my forces in the north and center this did not mean there would be 0 units in the south! Yes, I brought many units to annihilate the two german divisions but most of them are still directly attached to STAVKA HQ. Leningrad HQ has perhaps an excess of forces, which I will be possibly diverting to other fronts.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/21/2011 8:32:23 PM >

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 11:20:44 PM

pompack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

And a strategic issue: my defensive campaign during 1942.

Soooo. I have two choices: Fortified Regions and Infantry Brigades. I want to create defensive lines behind the front. Multiple lines in critical areas: Moscow and Leningrad. Unlike many players I think the FRs are VERY useful. To me a fort level >= 2, 3 or 4 is far better than a fort level 0 So, if my opponent pushes me in the '42 campaign I want to have prepared defensive lines...

I think I won't be using the infantry brigades during the blizzard. They should be digging to prepare these defensive lines (if not all, most of them). Same thing with FRs. I guess I'll be creating minimum 2 or 3 every turn.

Just another opinion, worth no more than most other opinions and probably worth less:

1) Fortified regions are BAD NEWS for the Russians for the following reasons
1a. they are armament hogs and you never have enough armaments (and if you do build more artillery or AT guns)
1b. they are not even good speed bumbs as defensive positions
1c) they build very slowly compared to lots of construction brigades in a nearby HQ

2) Unless you have consolidated brigades in at some point, you should have an adequate number of inf brigades. But if you need to build more, build divisions and brigades in a 2/1 ratio ( which happens to be the ratio to convert to rifle corps when it's time for your next offensive)

3) Be cautious in converting to rifle corps: they are great for creating powerful stacks, but that is for after you crush the 42 Summer Offensive. Until then they just suck divisions and brigades out of your carpet.

4) Be very cautious about creating tank corps:
4a) A tank brigade is a nice sacrifice to cut off a panzer division but a tank corps must be conserved
4b) A tank corps takes a LOT more trucks than three tank brigades; it doesn't take many losses added to a few conversions to drop you into the truck shortage numbers

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Post #: 649

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/21/2011 11:51:14 PM

PeeDeeAitch

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PDH's thoughts for the Soviets:

1) Never build corps, ever. Especially when playing me.

2) Carpet defenses suck. Stick to a single linear defense. Especially when playing me.

3) Disband all your cavalry before winter. Especially when playing me.

Follow these rules and the game will be much more enjoyable!

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to pompack)

Post #: 650

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 12:35:51 AM

cookie monster

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Fortified Regions used to be poor prior to this patch.

I bug reported that attaching construction units did not make any difference to fort building speed.

Now that it's fixed they might be one of the best units for building forts in game, as long as you attach construction units.

We need fresh testing of the new patches effect unfortunately.

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)

Post #: 651

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 12:37:16 AM

Klydon

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My two cents on Russian unit creation is to try to avoid it during the period of time that you get your units back for "free". (through October I think). Before that, you are paying 4 x the normal cost. A infantry brigade is absolutely not worth 20 points and a fortified zone is not worth 16 points. Fortified zones for the Russians have a construction value of around 14 while brigades have around 10. That is not a big enough difference imo to offset the disadvantages of the fortification and also with the new fortification rules, you really need the unit attached to a good commander if you are trying to dig in hard over level 2 fortifications.

As far as creating cav corps as a offensive unit for the blizzard, I have to disagree. They immediately become some of your strongest units period. They are also the only units the Russians have that can have support units directly assigned to them for awhile, making them even tougher. That they happen to be mobile is just a big plus, but either way, you can look to use them to stop German attacks, etc.

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Post #: 652

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 2:18:31 AM

TulliusDetritus

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Well, to me the Fortified Regions are ONLY diggers, not fighters. The truth is that IF I want to have defensive lines behind my front I need units on these hexes or no one will be doing that job. Big fighting units (divisions): no, they are needed to either fight the enemy or form the Stavka Reserve Armies I'm planning for 1942. The Infantry brigades, soon or later I will disband them and form divisions. So if I want diggers I will need FRs.

They need armaments? Ok. As I see it, forming these defensive lines is prioritary to me. I saved Moscow and Leningrad on 1941 but I want to make sure I save them on 1942 as well. If I survive that part then I might disband the FRs.

What I don't want is this scenario: everyone is in the front line. 2ndACR starts an offensive on 1942 and I am forced to pull back... and there is NOTHING behind, no fortified places. NO thanks

During the war this was the depth of the Soviet various defences

Moscow area (july '41): between 250 and 400 km...
Leningrad (1941): between 100 and 120 km...
Summer 1942: between 500 and 600 km [that's a LOT]...
Summer 1943: between 300 and 350 km...

In the game, IF you want to have these defensive positions you NEED Fortified Regions (aka diggers, because in fact it's ALL I want: guys with shovels). It's yes or yes

The fighting units are needed to contain the enemy... So either you create FRs or you don't have defensive positions behind your front line...

Conclusion: I will do exactly like the Soviets and build defensive lines behind the fronts. At least until 1943.

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Post #: 653

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 2:38:00 AM

Senno

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

PDH's thoughts for the Soviets:

1) Never build corps, ever. Especially when playing me.

2) Carpet defenses suck. Stick to a single linear defense. Especially when playing me.

3) Disband all your cavalry before winter. Especially when playing me.

Follow these rules and the game will be much more enjoyable!

Amen to number 2. And don't triple stack, either!

Keep up the entertaining AAR, TD. Don't let the guy get to you.

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)

Post #: 654

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 2:51:03 AM

TulliusDetritus

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As for the other issues, I really haven't thought yet about Infantry and Tank Corps

On 1942 I will need to think about that. I guess the first such Corps will mostly be attached to Stavka and then sent to strategically important areas, where they might make some difference.

I was convinced to create Cavalry Corps though, which I will be doing

Senno, I think PDH was being satiric

He gave an excellent tip (I can't remember where): he fears a carpet if the first line is composed of 2 or 3 units-stacks. As opposed to a huge carpet (let's say a depth of five hexes) but with only 1 unit per hex...

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/22/2011 2:53:08 AM >

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RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 3:08:51 AM

Senno

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Senno, I think PDH was being satiric He gave an excellent tip (I can't remember where): he fears a carpet if the first line is composed of 2 or 3 units-stacks. As opposed to a huge carpet (let's say a depth of five hexes) but with only 1 unit per hex...

So was I.

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Post #: 656

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 3:10:49 AM

PeeDeeAitch

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I always spill petrol from the panzers on the thin carpets.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Senno)

Post #: 657

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/22/2011 5:41:23 AM

76mm

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I'm with TD on this one, I use FZs quite a bit, at least once their cost drops to 4. I also build lots of brigades during the winter, since they are cheap (5), can dig fairly well, and can later be combined into divisions.

I've been looking at the construction values of FZs vs brigades. Most of the ready brigades seem to top out at a construction value of 8-9, some hit 11 or so. FZs seem to keep improving over time, I noticed one (one of the first created) with an FZ of over 30! And this was before we could (effectively) attach a RRCB to an FZ for additional digging power. I've also previously noted that sometimes you want someone to start digging right now (ie, FZ), not in the several turns it could take you to move a brigade to the location.

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Post #: 658

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/23/2011 5:01:22 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Turn 24

27 november 1941

Blizzard will here on next turn. I have decided to mass all the divisions in the frontline, I mean NO big units behind. The Winter Offensive is supposed to be a golden opportunity that you can't miss, even if I will be using Big Anorak's rule.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 4/23/2011 5:02:14 PM >

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Post #: 659

RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR ... - 4/23/2011 5:04:22 PM

TulliusDetritus

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As I said, I am going to prepare my '42 defensive campaign. Just in case. In the center this turn I have started 3 defensive lines: a mix of Fortified Regions and Infantry Brigades.

Attachment (1)

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