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B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/1/2011 6:58:01 PM   
jdcorley

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		Playing my first full game in AE. It 1944 and all of my B-29 units show up out of range of every airfield and have to beither be packed for a ship or rail transit into theater.

WHY?!?!

There was not a single case of any B-29 unit going from CONUS to either the CBI or CenPAc aboard a ship or a train. The B-29-5 (initial production variant) had a ferry range of 5600 miles (140 hexes +/-) and the plane in the game has the range to stage from CONUS to the combat zone in one hop. Why does the game hamstring an intercontinental bomber (albeit an early one) with this extremely unrealistic handicap? For that matter, why do they show up in Eastern USA? Herington, KS processed over half of the B-29 units in the CenPac campaign on their way to the Pacific. Wouldn't that have made more sense? The B-29s going to the CBI transited the southern atlantic route and would have entered the map at Aden which is 2350 miles from Karachi. The B-29s were staged by air through Karachi and the primary reason for the stop wasn't fuel, rather fatigue. A ship simply took too long, as a B-29 could arrive in the combat zone in a week, not a month or more later.



I searched for this topic, but didn't find anything. Sorry if it's old ground being recovered.
Post #: 1
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/1/2011 7:09:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jdcorley

Playing my first full game in AE. It 1944 and all of my B-29 units show up out of range of every airfield and have to beither be packed for a ship or rail transit into theater.

WHY?!?!

There was not a single case of any B-29 unit going from CONUS to either the CBI or CenPAc aboard a ship or a train. The B-29-5 (initial production variant) had a ferry range of 5600 miles (140 hexes +/-) and the plane in the game has the range to stage from CONUS to the combat zone in one hop. Why does the game hamstring an intercontinental bomber (albeit an early one) with this extremely unrealistic handicap? For that matter, why do they show up in Eastern USA? Herington, KS processed over half of the B-29 units in the CenPac campaign on their way to the Pacific. Wouldn't that have made more sense? The B-29s going to the CBI transited the southern atlantic route and would have entered the map at Aden which is 2350 miles from Karachi. The B-29s were staged by air through Karachi and the primary reason for the stop wasn't fuel, rather fatigue. A ship simply took too long, as a B-29 could arrive in the combat zone in a week, not a month or more later.

I searched for this topic, but didn't find anything. Sorry if it's old ground being recovered.


I'm playing a Scen 2 game, am in April 1944, and so far all B-29 units have shown up in SE Asia. I have them mining Bangkok and Singers. Re-check your queues maybe.

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The Moose

(in reply to jdcorley)
Post #: 2
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/1/2011 7:55:46 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		It is a design error..
They flew from the states through Africa , having planes in the east that need to use trains to move to the west is silly as well.. but look this is a minor issue

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 3
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/1/2011 11:33:28 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		My father related that his unit flew from Clovis New Mexico to the west coast and then on to Hawaii.  In Hawaii they were issued Arctic wear and then proceeded to fly off to Tinian.  Imagine how happy they were not to be in Alaska.

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 4
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/1/2011 11:42:19 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		and flying a new plane was dangerous, there was a problem with the first engines throughing bolts and catching on fire.. that is not a good thing when your goal is to fly half way around the world and then go to war..

this may need to be changed in the next witp S AE supreme ae lol
But my number one bitch is still.. after those inconsiderate people who steal threads... is .. oh no I cannot steal a thread! lol
see new post on the topic of rails behind the lines


< Message edited by freeboy -- 5/2/2011 8:07:25 AM >

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 5
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/2/2011 12:53:09 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline 		It was considered "out of scope" to allow air units to fly between the main map and off map bases. Consider that the physical hex that a base is located in, on the map, does not represent where it was in reality, so air ranges between off-map bases and on-map bases are not accurate if a straight line distance is used (which is how air transfers work in AE). Same for off-map to off-map bases as well, of course - even more so.

Think of strat movement to include "flying" between off map bases.

Andrew

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 6
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/2/2011 7:37:34 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jdcorley

Playing my first full game in AE. It 1944 and all of my B-29 units show up out of range of every airfield and have to beither be packed for a ship or rail transit into theater.

WHY?!?!

There was not a single case of any B-29 unit going from CONUS to either the CBI or CenPAc aboard a ship or a train. The B-29-5 (initial production variant) had a ferry range of 5600 miles (140 hexes +/-) and the plane in the game has the range to stage from CONUS to the combat zone in one hop. Why does the game hamstring an intercontinental bomber (albeit an early one) with this extremely unrealistic handicap? For that matter, why do they show up in Eastern USA? Herington, KS processed over half of the B-29 units in the CenPac campaign on their way to the Pacific. Wouldn't that have made more sense? The B-29s going to the CBI transited the southern atlantic route and would have entered the map at Aden which is 2350 miles from Karachi. The B-29s were staged by air through Karachi and the primary reason for the stop wasn't fuel, rather fatigue. A ship simply took too long, as a B-29 could arrive in the combat zone in a week, not a month or more later.


I searched for this topic, but didn't find anything. Sorry if it's old ground being recovered.


None of my B-29 had to be ever cratered as soon as I had them on the map - of course it´s not possible to fly from off map zones. I can´t see it being that much of a handicap because those that arrive in Eastern USA can be transferred by rail to San Francisco and be flown to the front. Ok, those arriving at Aden have to be shipped to India but that´s not that much of a problem either.

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Post #: 7
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/2/2011 7:43:54 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		It's a bit of a bother, but you can fly them as soon as they're on the map. Consider using AKVs to transship them from Aden to Karachi.

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Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 8
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/2/2011 5:05:18 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		well, if you are doing playuer defined upgrades you can change some heavy bomber groups to 29 groups and avoid some of this..
again a minor issue

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 9
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/3/2011 4:11:50 AM   
jdcorley

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		I understand about AKVs, rail shipments and all that.

Its just a HUGE inaccuracy unlike most of the game. A B-29 could fly just about anywhere in CONUS from SF.

Just a disappointing facet.

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 10
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/3/2011 4:36:54 AM   
bbbf

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 7/16/2000
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Why is it disappointing?

You are setting way to high a mark for any game to achieve.

I'd much rather have a programmer squash a persistent bug than muck around writing an exception for one plane type.

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Robert Lee

(in reply to jdcorley)
Post #: 11
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/3/2011 9:20:22 AM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

Why is it disappointing?

You are setting way to high a mark for any game to achieve.

I'd much rather have a programmer squash a persistent bug than muck around writing an exception for one plane type.


The point is they really don't need to do a any coding. Just change the base of arrival to an appropriate on map base and there is no more coding. I'm not too bothered by this though, its just a very small problem, but the fix is equally small. Of course, we're probably not getting any new database patches, so if anyone wants it solved they'll have to use mods.

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The AE-Wiki, help fill it out

(in reply to bbbf)
Post #: 12
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/4/2011 2:11:58 AM   
jdcorley

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		Is there any way to change the database of an in progress game? I tried on a small scenario by adding a ship to appear two turns after a saved point in the game, but it never appeared.

Would it be possible to go in, and change the arrival base? Or even change it to add the base in Kansas for units to arrive at.

(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 13
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/4/2011 3:42:50 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Nope, can't see any DB changes in games that are already started.  Think of it this way.  When you change something in the DB for a scenario, that is the "master" copy.  When you start a new game from a scenario, it reads that scenario data into the save game file and only uses the data in the save game file from that point on.  

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Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to jdcorley)
Post #: 14
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/4/2011 3:58:11 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		I suspect - but don't know for sure - that the off map arrival was deliberate to make sure you get the units in the case of an 'on map' base being captured. Then again, if San Francisco was in Japanese hands by the time the B-29's arrive, you've got bigger problems I think…

B

< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 5/4/2011 3:59:56 PM >

(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 15
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/5/2011 4:09:05 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline 		Remember, this is a game/simulation with obvious limitations. Simulations are abstractions and in this case I would posit the abstraction is to have the unit appear so that the effort to bring it on map represents the time of transit from CONUS so that it appears approximately on the date it appeared historically (or within your choice of +/- time).

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So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 16
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/5/2011 5:02:47 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well, I am not staying awake at night worrying about this one.

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Post #: 17
RE: B-29 Unit arrivals - 5/5/2011 5:18:54 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I'm at that point now.  11 groups have arrived in Aden and I'm using AKV to ferry them to Bombay where I've stuck them on training.  OK so it takes a few days to ferry them but there not ready for combat anyway so they need some

I also have the XX USAAF (Commanded by LeMay) and the XX US Bomber Cmd based there for added training bonus.  In a months or twos time I'll let them lose.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 18
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