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Trucks - 5/5/2011 6:17:32 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.

Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.
Post #: 1
RE: Trucks - 5/5/2011 8:34:03 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		This is why you need to horde your supplies and not launch attacks until you are ready. Wars did not start right away, and Nations mobilized and stocked enough supplies to last for months. That is why this new game is more realistic than the old AT, in that you have to watch what you do and make sure you don't run low. Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade your oil refineries is key....

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 5/5/2011 10:27:42 AM >

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 2
RE: Trucks - 5/5/2011 1:27:28 PM   
tweber

 

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.

Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.


I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.

However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 3
RE: Trucks - 5/5/2011 2:22:00 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweber


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.

Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.


I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.

However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.


Already tried it wont let you change stats. The only thing I could change was the amount of fuel used for Strategic deployment.

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 4
RE: Trucks - 5/5/2011 2:40:03 PM   
all5n


Posts: 371
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Republic of Texas
Status: offline 		I definitely don't use trucks at all any more, especially in games in which navies play a large role.

Between my tanks and my navy, I am effectively at 0 oil at the start of each turn (before production). In one game i am playing, i have had to mothball the tanks in my army fighting an AI opponent so i can use the oil against the players i am fighting.

In pbem games with AI countries, a strategy seems to be to capture upgraded AI oil wells, which are often level 3. That is a free 140PP worth of upgrades and very valuable. Thats about the cost of Staff II or Rifle/SMG II + Artillery II. Much of this strategy is based on luck/where the AI oil wells are located.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 5
RE: Trucks - 5/5/2011 3:03:13 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweber


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.

Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.


I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.

However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.


Already tried it wont let you change stats. The only thing I could change was the amount of fuel used for Strategic deployment.


Remember to disengage the masterfile before doing it ...

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 6
RE: Trucks - 5/5/2011 11:23:51 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweber


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.

Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.


I would say that the German, Soviets (certainly pre-1944), Chinese, French, Italy and British (pre-1944) were all relatively unmechanized. Germany was certainly fuel constrained. For the others, it was probably more of an issue of equipment. Barbarosa was launched with 3 million horses and only the 5 panzer groups where mechanized. Most of the soldiers in 1941 marched.

However, if you do not like the fuel stats for a particular unit, it is easy to change. Go into the editor, sftypes, select the one you want and then go into fuel stats.


Already tried it wont let you change stats. The only thing I could change was the amount of fuel used for Strategic deployment.


Remember to disengage the masterfile before doing it ...


How does one do that?

(in reply to ernieschwitz)
Post #: 7
RE: Trucks - 5/5/2011 11:53:25 PM   
tweber

 

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		Go into the editor, then settings, then click the masterfile button (it is a blue arrow button).  It will ask you for the masterfile and you just cancel.  This removes the masterfile.

Changing fuel stats unit by unit will take a while.  If, systematically, you want to reduce the impact of fuel, you can:  go into editor, go into items, select the oil item, then click the prodmultiplier button.  You can now make it so multiple of fuel is produced.  This is the same as systematically dividing the fuel requirements of all units.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 8
RE: Trucks - 5/6/2011 9:08:02 AM   
Grymme

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think in general that units were quite balanced in AT. So it might be that trucks etc should have their fuel cost adjusted a little because they might become less usesfull.

That being said WWII was not a cakewalk as far as fuel was concerned. Many nations had to suspend offensives and operations because of fuel shortage. For example the entire Italian navy and airforce more or less came to a halt because they had so little fuel. If every player would have the possibility to move all fuel consuming units every round then there would be no use to having fuel as a concept.

_____________________________

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http://atgscenarios.wordpress.com

30+ scenarios, maps and mods for AT and AT:G

(in reply to tweber)
Post #: 9
RE: Trucks - 5/6/2011 3:58:26 PM   
kendollem

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/4/2008
Status: offline 		The only issue im finding with the scarcity of fuel and how much units use.. Raws really dont have a point.You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .

(in reply to Grymme)
Post #: 10
RE: Trucks - 5/6/2011 4:03:24 PM   
Barthheart


Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kendollem
...
You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .


Really not sure what you're saying here... why do you have to build 2 gun factories for every other factory?

Also you do know that you can turn off a factory by setting all it production lines to 0? There's no need to make stuff if you're not going to use it.... that's just a waste of Raw resources.....


_____________________________

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty & well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"

(in reply to kendollem)
Post #: 11
RE: Trucks - 5/6/2011 6:46:34 PM   
Ande

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart


quote:

ORIGINAL: kendollem
...
You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .


Really not sure what you're saying here... why do you have to build 2 gun factories for every other factory?

Also you do know that you can turn off a factory by setting all it production lines to 0? There's no need to make stuff if you're not going to use it.... that's just a waste of Raw resources.....


There would be little point in building another factory if you got one of the same type that you're not using and letting raw material pile up is a waste of mine investments. The only thing left to do is to is to build a lot of artillery. There are ofcourse some fuelcheap things you can do with a airplane factory. Perhaps the most useful is to stack up on fighters for defence. Defence as in never fly them anywere ever. Another thing I experimented with was missles at one point. They only cost fuel at construction (or so I think) and is something to spend the production when you can't afford anything else. I would suggest that the fuel requirement for missles II is removed to stimulate the need for them at all.

(in reply to Barthheart)
Post #: 12
RE: Trucks - 5/7/2011 1:23:43 AM   
kendollem

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ande


quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart


quote:

ORIGINAL: kendollem
...
You have to build 2 gun factorys for every othre factory you have and you'll still end up with a pretty big reserve of tanks and planes you cant use .


Really not sure what you're saying here... why do you have to build 2 gun factories for every other factory?

Also you do know that you can turn off a factory by setting all it production lines to 0? There's no need to make stuff if you're not going to use it.... that's just a waste of Raw resources.....


There would be little point in building another factory if you got one of the same type that you're not using and letting raw material pile up is a waste of mine investments. The only thing left to do is to is to build a lot of artillery. There are ofcourse some fuelcheap things you can do with a airplane factory. Perhaps the most useful is to stack up on fighters for defence. Defence as in never fly them anywere ever. Another thing I experimented with was missles at one point. They only cost fuel at construction (or so I think) and is something to spend the production when you can't afford anything else. I would suggest that the fuel requirement for missles II is removed to stimulate the need for them at all.

Yea thats pretty much what im saying.. And with only core cities capable of producing supplys.. Ones infantry army continues to decreace after a certain point and you'll have a crap ton of arty and infantry guns if you try to use all your raw. Which you would be crazy not to.

Not sure if theres an easy fix tho.

(in reply to Ande)
Post #: 13
RE: Trucks - 5/7/2011 2:34:56 PM   
Casus_Belli

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.

Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.


Didn't Cornelius Ryan says that, at the time of Market Garden in '44 the Germany Army was still 80% powered by horses? And marching, of course, not to mention the railways.

_____________________________

Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 14
RE: Trucks - 5/7/2011 11:35:48 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Casus_Belli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Not a single nation in WW2 was so strapped for gas that they could not motorize significant parts of their military. Japan did not because they were fighting mostly in the Pacific and China was to rough for trucks.

Yet this game makes it nearly impossible for any one to mobilize their forces with trucks. If you do you run out of oil so fast you ruin your entire military. Further no one had trouble providing fuel to massive air armies or Navies. Yet try that in ATG Gold and you will quickly stall out and have no oil.


Didn't Cornelius Ryan says that, at the time of Market Garden in '44 the Germany Army was still 80% powered by horses? And marching, of course, not to mention the railways.


The Germans had no means to procure enough trucks. They raided every conquered country for usuable military vehicles and still needed more.

(in reply to Casus_Belli)
Post #: 15
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