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Kamikaze attacks at night?

 
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Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/5/2011 9:47:58 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		I have a query for information.

I'm reading about Kamikaze attacks in Rielly's Kamikaze Attacks of WW2 - an excellent book with many translations of original Japanese training pamphlets which should prove invaluable in improving the kamikaze modelling in the game.


One thing strikes me though.... He references night-time kamikaze attacks several times pointing out that the phosphorescence of ship wakes allowed them to be effective, particularly on moonlit nights.

I've never seen any imagery of night-time kamikaze attacks or heard about them during night-time. I know they used to often come in at dusk as the day CAP was recalled and, occasionally, at dawn also but I've not come across accounts from night-time kamikaze attacks. So, I'm curious, does anyone know of verified night-time kamikaze attacks?


P.s. I'm happy for any constructive discussion or disagreement but I'd ask those who get their fun from abusing others and breaching forum rules to stay away.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/5/2011 9:50:26 PM >

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/5/2011 9:55:48 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		A very interesting quote to show that this definitely happened comes from Lieutenant Commander Ingraham, CO of the ML Shannon...

quote:

On several occasions it has been proven conclusively that the enemy has in their possession our Mk 6 IFF system. Several times have planes showed "lights" and proved themselves to be bogies by suiciding into ships. Up until this time ( 15th July 1945 ) we have been almost correct in assuming that any plane showing lights was friendly. Now our primary means of identification during darkened hours is of doubtful value. It is believed that Jap suicide planes often turn on their running lights when in a kamikaze attack so as to draw fire from the 40mm. The aviator is then able to ride in on the tracers."


Very interesting as it reports the tactics of both sides and also talks about succesful attacks by kamikazes at night "suiciding into ships". Also it, given the context, doesn't appear to be talking about dusk or dawn, but rather, actual night-time.

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 1:27:07 AM   
ilovestrategy


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From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I've read about studies saying tracers were just bad all around, especially if you were a pilot because the enemy could tell of you're running out of ammo by looking at the ratio of tracers to normal bullets. We didn't like them in the Marines because we didn't want our position given away.

I never heard of the riding tracers though. That's a new one.

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 9:07:48 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		Just finished reading Fahey's "Diary of an American Sailor". He writes that at Okinawa the Navy used smoke screens to hide ships at anchor from prowling Kamikazes, covering huge areas in artificial fog. The ships hidden in the blanketed area were ordered not to fire their AA guns after Kamikazes had followed tracer streams into the fog, down to their source...

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 11:20:26 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I've read about studies saying tracers were just bad all around, especially if you were a pilot because the enemy could tell of you're running out of ammo by looking at the ratio of tracers to normal bullets. We didn't like them in the Marines because we didn't want our position given away.

I never heard of the riding tracers though. That's a new one.



why does it tell you would be running out of ammo? Isn´t the ratio the same for the whole ammo loadout?

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 11:38:42 AM   
MightyPaladin

 

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Status: offline 		It was common to have the last "x" number of rounds to be all tracer so the pilot knows he's running out. not sure how much "x" was.

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 12:57:35 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
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Status: offline 		I've heard that for a plane with 15 seconds worth of fire the last 2 to 3 seconds would be tracer so that the pilot would know when to bug out. Also I've read of reports in NW Europe in '44 where one P47 group replaced its tracers with normal bullets and found that the number of kills they got skyrocketed as unsuspecting German pilots were no longer being warned they had been bounced by tracers zipping past their cockpit --- much easier to shoot down a non-manoeuvring target after all.

One of the Murphy's rules of combat that I've often heard quoted is, "Tracers work.... in both directions."

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 1:19:36 PM   
morganbj


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Status: offline 		But a stream of pure tracers sure do look purty .....


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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 1:48:04 PM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
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From: San Diego
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

But a stream of pure tracers sure do look purty .....



Pew, pew, pew!

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/6/2011 7:11:19 PM   
Major SNAFU_M


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Joined: 11/3/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I've read about studies saying tracers were just bad all around, especially if you were a pilot because the enemy could tell of you're running out of ammo by looking at the ratio of tracers to normal bullets. We didn't like them in the Marines because we didn't want our position given away.

I never heard of the riding tracers though. That's a new one.


Well, If you intention is to die anyway, putting the line of tracers right on the 'ol reflecting site will pretty much do it

I have spent much time in flight simulators over the years and I can tell you that I would follow a tracer by eye to its origin, but I would never choose to follow that path with my AC.

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RE: Kamikaze attacks at night? - 5/7/2011 12:31:15 AM   
Nemo121


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Status: offline 		SNAFU,

I think when they talk about riding the tracers in they aren't literally talking about flying the path of the tracers but rather at flying towards their origin point ( aka the ship firing at you ).

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John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

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