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Why are captured resources not being used?

 
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Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 7:34:17 AM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline 		I've always been curious as to when or if captured resources are getting used. The logic about these mechanics is something I obviously don't understand.

As axis I have captured resources in many cities/urban and connect the rail network. So why do I find in the reports that I'm short resources? To me this seems like a bug, as I have plenty of resources and should NEVER be short until my captured resources are used. I'm guessing late when fuel is more of an issues, I'll be seeing stockpiles of fuel (like in Leningrad) never being used? Should be able to easily just ship all that fuel back to Germany for use.

Can a dev or tester please explain this or maybe file it as a bug?





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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 8:19:45 AM   
cpt flam


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From: caen - France
Status: offline 		can you tll me if your captured ressources have been repaired (take some time)
may be an explanation

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 10:09:39 AM   
Jim D Burns


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From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		I can think of two possibilities: Is the rail line leading from the resource hex repaired and unbroken all the way back to your rear area cities? Partisan attacks are possibly preventing rail moves along the line.

Jim

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 10:27:12 AM   
ComradeP

 

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Status: offline 		Even without capturing resources, you have plenty of resource centers to fuel your industry as the Axis in 1941. For some reason, those locations must've dropped of the rail grid or the like. After a few turns, the production system should iron itself out. It could be a Finnish HI location, but Finland has only 1 synthetic fuel location, so that doesn't explain why 2 don't have enough resources.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 10:41:48 AM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
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Status: offline 		I've been seeing this too. I'm in early 43 as Axis in PBEM. I have captured cities in the Caucuses that have literally 100s of thousands of tonnes of oil, fuel and resources that have been sitting untouched for months now, despite my production centres always reporting lack of supplies, resources, or whatever, in line with what you're reporting Kriegerson. The rail net is not the issue.

The other thing is: I have captured oil facilities that are damage 40 which are not producing. Seems in the manual that when damage is under 50 they should begin producing, but are not. Any reason why? Again, rail is fine.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 10:44:48 AM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Historically, given the poor overall transportation infrastructure in Russia (coupled with its almost complete destruction during the fighting), the chances of getting any significant amount of resources out of the region (the Caucausus especially) was slim - Hitler may have gain control of the oil fields, but he probably never would have gotten much back to Germany.



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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 1:42:26 PM   
molchomor

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 12/28/2009
Status: offline 		Also seen this in my game, e.g. have Baku captured and rail link established (fuel facilities were damaged, but with damage only ~30 now).

I should see German fuel production almost doubled 2 turns out of 3, right ?).

This does not seem to happen, the Axis fuel pool has not jumped up as i would have expected.

What is even more annoying is that the strategical decisions I made (assigning precious TBDs to repair rail to captured resource and oil centers) seems to have resulted in nothing (no increased axis production etc.) ?

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 4:23:36 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

I can think of two possibilities: Is the rail line leading from the resource hex repaired and unbroken all the way back to your rear area cities? Partisan attacks are possibly preventing rail moves along the line.

Jim



I'm not some noob player. Neither of these are the case.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 4:26:04 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Even without capturing resources, you have plenty of resource centers to fuel your industry as the Axis in 1941. For some reason, those locations must've dropped of the rail grid or the like. After a few turns, the production system should iron itself out. It could be a Finnish HI location, but Finland has only 1 synthetic fuel location, so that doesn't explain why 2 don't have enough resources.



I've had these resources in the supply grid for months now. For me I consider this a bug, unless it can be explained to me why I'm coming up short of resources when I have many cities connected to the grid with caches of resources.

I'll be very disappointed if this issue can't be explained and is just 'brushed under the rug'.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 6:07:50 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpt flam

can you tll me if your captured ressources have been repaired (take some time)
may be an explanation



From what I understand this is a cache of resources which should be used even if the every turn resource production is damaged.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 6:34:38 PM   
wosung

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Historically, given the poor overall transportation infrastructure in Russia (coupled with its almost complete destruction during the fighting), the chances of getting any significant amount of resources out of the region (the Caucausus especially) was slim - Hitler may have gain control of the oil fields, but he probably never would have gotten much back to Germany.




German oil strategy was weird from the start. Like everything else it counted on a short six month Blitz in the East.

The German Wehrwirtschaftsamt planned to relocate French refineries to the Caucasus. Optimistically, it planned to start a considerable oil production half a year after the Majkop oil wells had been occupied and to reach an output of 1 Mio. tons another six months later, 50% of Soviet light crude oil peace time production there. With Groznyj and Baku (the latter with a yearly peace time production of 20 Mio. tons) it was hoped to produce some 120.000 tons a month from mid 1943 onwards. This turned out to be just an illusion. Only Majkop was occupied. Only 70 barrels (about 10 tons) a day ever were produced there under German management. The German Ostheer alone needed 5.000 to 6.000 tons a day. Plus there were other oil consuments, the Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, the production and transport sector and Italy.

But according to a German report, the Soviets “expertly destroyed” endangered Caucasian Oil wells and production sides in Majkop, taking years of repair: Drilling holes were filled with concrete and iron. Derricks, aggregates, power lines, infrastructure were destroyed. Road transport capacity was lacking, rails were destroyed, thus heavy equipment couldn’t be transported. Also, the kerosine refinery Kubanol in Krasnodar was destroyed “beyond repair”.

The 6.500 men strong Technische Brigade Mineralöl, which in March 1942 was formed by the German Wehrwirtschafts- und Rüstungsamt and which was attached to Heeresgruppe A and its 1. Panzerarmee also was delayed by air and partisan attacks – frex 40 German oil experts were killed with knives in one partisan night time raid in Majkop.

German efforts also were hampered big way by the usual feuds between OKW, Göring’s Office for the 4 Year Plan, Reichswirtschaftsministerium, Ministerium Spee, Ostministerium, OKH, making it impossible for months only partly to recruit of the additional needed 2.800 drilling experts.

All German oil planners were absolutely clear about one point: The only way to transport considerable amounts of Caucasian oil to Germany or to the Ukraine would be by ship, up the Danube. Thus, the Black Sea had to be secured. Additionally, first all the tankers needed had to be concentrated: by Black sea charter, by transferring French and Italian ships through the Bosporus, by rebuilding Danube river boats and by a building program for Danube boats made of concrete.

And from just another telling perspective: Till Nov. 1942 up to 45% of all trains just transporting supplies for the Wehrmacht fighting in the Caucasus were blocked by partisan activities there.

But the fight for the Caucasus did mean this: Not only Germany but also the Soviet Union struggled for oil. From summer 1941 onwards Caucasian oil production, from Majkop to Grosnyj was heavily reduced for a number of reasons: Drilling equipment was evacuated to the East, Azerbajan came under the threat of Luftwaffe bombing raids, the Volga and the rail net was blocked by the the Wehrmacht. Thus several Million tons of oil had to be shipped from Krasnovodsk over the Caspian Sea and the distributed through Turkmenia and Kazachtan.

In autumn and winter1942 lack of fuel on both sides resulted in a esp. tough fighting in the South.

Arguably, as early as in late September 1942, even Hitler himself didn’t believe anymore in the success of Operation Blau: Correcting his earlier Order No. 45 for the occupation of the Caucasus oil fields intact, now he ordered airstrikes on the oil tanks in Saratov, Kamysin and Aatrachan and in mid October on the rafinery in Groznyj.

Give the extraordinary economical, strategic and discoursive meaning of the “Caucasian oil” for Nazi Germany, arguably the very matter wasn’t planned and realized particularly thoroughly. Also, possible Wally reactions weren’t taken into account: As early as in the Soviet Finnish war there were Anglo-French plannings for air strikes on Caucasian oil fields.

As Richard Overy concisely has put it: Neither the German nor the Japanese occupation of oil fields in the Caucasus or in Dutch East India did move all this oil one inch closer to the German and Japanese industry.

Sources:
Bernd Wegner, Der Krieg gegen die Sowjetunion 1942/43, in: Germany and the Second World War Vol. 6., pp. 942-951.
Richard Overy, Why the Allies won, pp. 228-234.

Regards

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 6:48:12 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
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Status: offline 		Ok, well yes all interesting stuff to know. But we digress for the main question I posed. What is going on with captured resources, supplies, fuel, and oil which are connected to the rail network back to Germany. To me it either works or doesn't. In the later case it needs to be fixed. The fact is the game allows these type of caches to be captured and thus the players (axis in this case) should be able to utilize it. If this is not the case, then it should be removed from the game. Personally I think more resources were sent back to Germany from the Soviet Union than most people realize. So I hope it is fixed or can be explain to me why my situation would EVER occur.

I would love it if Joel or somebody could explain this to me.

Thanks in advance!



< Message edited by kirkgregerson -- 5/12/2011 6:49:06 PM >

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 9:00:39 PM   
carnifex


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quote:

As Richard Overy concisely has put it: Neither the German nor the Japanese occupation of oil fields in the Caucasus or in Dutch East India did move all this oil one inch closer to the German and Japanese industry.


I'm sorry, but whaaaaa? Are you saying the Japanese didn't get a drop of oil out of the DEI?

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/12/2011 9:48:12 PM   
wosung

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

quote:

As Richard Overy concisely has put it: Neither the German nor the Japanese occupation of oil fields in the Caucasus or in Dutch East India did move all this oil one inch closer to the German and Japanese industry.


I'm sorry, but whaaaaa? Are you saying the Japanese didn't get a drop of oil out of the DEI?



No. I didn’t say that.

In 1939 and 1940 Japan imported 19 resp. 22 Mio barrels crude oil and 12 resp. 15 Mio. barrels refined oil, altogether (?) thereform 3 resp. 3,5 Mio. barrels from NEI (which produced ca, 60 Mio barrels yearly in 1940 and 1941). Total domestic stock 1940 49, 5 Mio barrels.

In 1942 Japan imported 8,146 Mio. barrel crude oil and 2,378 Mio. barrel refined oil, therefrom 10,524 Mio barrels from NEI. Total domestic stock 38, 2 Mio barrels. Production in NEI 25,9 Mio barrels.

In 1943 Japan imported 9,848 Mio. barrel crude oil and 4,652 Mio. barrel refined oil, therefrom 14,500 Mio barrels from NEI. Total domestic stock 25, 3Mio barrels. Production in NEI 49,6 Mio barrels.

In 1944 Japan imported 1,641 Mio. barrel crude oil and 3,334 Mio. barrel refined oil, therefrom 4,975 Mio barrels from NEI. Total domestic stock 13,8 Mio barrels. Production in NEI 36,9 Mio barrels.

In 1945 Japan imported 0 Mio. barrel crude oil and 0 Mio. barrel refined oil, therefrom 0 Mio barrels from NEI. Total domestic stock 4,9 Mio barrels. Production in NEI 6,5 Mio barrels.

But all those conquered oil just had to be transported to the consumer: the Japanese armed forces and the Japanese homeland. From the above it’s clear that Japan yearly imported 30 Mio to 37 Mio barrels before the Pacific war, but only 14 Mio barrels yearly max in the Pacific war. Practically all the oil Japan imported in the Pacific war it got from occupied NEI. Japan practically lost its merchant marine during the war (17,2 Mio BRT or 4690 ships, with merely 557.000 tons seagoing in Sept. 1945). Its started the Pacific war with only 42 oil tankers with 356.000 BRT.

You think all that was a good deal or a well prepared strategic plan?

If you’d ask me, just considering the oil problem 1930’s Japan would be better of not having started the Pacific war.
But that’s another discussion.

Fact remains, having conquered NEI didn’t move the NEI oil to Japan. No wonder, in 1945 main parts of IJN fleet quite tellingly anchored in Singapore and not in Japan. This was nearer to the oil.

Same with Germany in the Caucasus. Having occupied Majkop just didn’t help one bit.


Source:
Entries “Japan” and “Statistics” in: I.C.B Dear (Ed.), The Oxford Companion to the Second World War, pp. 629 and 1061.


Regards

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 12:22:55 AM   
Joel Billings


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Status: offline 		I can't answer this, but will try to have Pavel or Gary answer it. Could be some other production system inefficiency, but I don't know.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 6:01:05 AM   
Joel Billings


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Status: offline 		Pavel emailed me to say that captured stocks are used, but since stocks from closer sources are used first. He says that resources do not move by sea (supplies do), so it would appear that there are factories in Finland that are running short. However, I'm not sure if that explains why 2 synthetic factories locations are listed as being short as I only see one in Finland.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 6:47:26 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

why 2 synthetic factories locations are listed as being short


There was a bug which I fixed recently. Synthetic Fuel locations do no place request for the resources after usage. It means that some location which don't have local resource production or don't create extra requests due to other industry types will be producing s.fuel every second turn.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 9:55:15 AM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
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Status: offline 		So all that captured fuel sitting there in Grozny (I'm sitting on 180k of fuel, and 120k of oil) will not be used until resources nearer Germany are drained? So even if I hold the place for a year, connected to rail, and these supplies might not be accessed? And then the Red Army draws near, and they are still not accessed? And then the Red Army recaptures Grozny, and they are gone. This doesnt seem much reward for a Caucuses campaign. Will units or hqs not even locally draw upon all those juicy fuel stocks? Or will they send back to Germany for fuel, despite 180k tonnes sitting on their doorstep.

What's more, Grozny's fuel production is damage 40 yet not producing for me - any reasons for this?

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 10:21:18 AM   
Fishbed

 

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From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline 		Most interesting data Wosung, thank you.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 3:53:41 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter

So all that captured fuel sitting there in Grozny (I'm sitting on 180k of fuel, and 120k of oil) will not be used until resources nearer Germany are drained? So even if I hold the place for a year, connected to rail, and these supplies might not be accessed? And then the Red Army draws near, and they are still not accessed? And then the Red Army recaptures Grozny, and they are gone. This doesnt seem much reward for a Caucuses campaign. Will units or hqs not even locally draw upon all those juicy fuel stocks? Or will they send back to Germany for fuel, despite 180k tonnes sitting on their doorstep.

What's more, Grozny's fuel production is damage 40 yet not producing for me - any reasons for this?




Yeah, this seems that WitE is making a very strong statement that capturing Sov resources historically never amount to transportation back to the Fatherland until the last minute when they were needed. I think that if some research was done on this subject by the WitE team, they would see that this is false. Also, it completely negates any real benefits of a southern Caucasus campaign. Denying the Soviets some oil/fuel is still a plus, but I'm not sure it would cripple the Sovs enough to make a difference. Although historically cutting off the entire southern Caucuses would have caused problems for the Sov war effort.

We have to consider that logic like this in WitE is somewhat unhistorical and even worse takes away from some of the fun and variance of strategies that an axis player can implement. I'm not saying that the capacity was there to move all resources west upon capture, but I don't think the other extreme of leaving them in the east is a good choice either.

I propose that remaining axis rail (not used moving units) at the end of a turn be used for moving captured stocks west to axis pools for use later when/if needed. It could be an automated task and maybe be smart enough to move the more needed stocks first or just an even distribution of all. Maybe players could have a simple interface to chose priority on what resources be moved west. This seems reasonable and I hope is given some thought.




< Message edited by kirkgregerson -- 5/13/2011 3:58:17 PM >

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 4:12:04 PM   
carnifex


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Status: offline 		Yeah, I have weeks go by where I don't use any rail movement. So instead of just sitting idle, those trains should be moving resources back home.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 4:13:30 PM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
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Status: offline 		"I propose that remaining axis rail (not used moving units) at the end of a turn be used for moving captured stocks west to axis pools for use later when/if needed. It could be an automated task and maybe be smart enough to move the more needed stocks first or just an even distribution of all. Maybe players could have a simple interface to chose priority on what resources be moved west. This seems reasonable and I hope is given some thought."

Good suggestion.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 4:46:27 PM   
Rafo35

 

Posts: 57
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Status: offline 		"Remaining axis rail capacity" is a game abstraction. There was not such a thing. The rail system is already not a strong point of WITE, let's not go farther in the wrong way.

Also, the many pb with the Caucasus oil are well documented and they are ... huge. First, the Soviet damaged everything at an incredible level. Almost nothing could have been extract before the end of the war. But that's not even the worst : the Germans had just no way to bring the oil back in Germany. The only way was through the Black Sea (main pb, not enough tankers) and then on the Danube (pb : the Danube was already at full capacity with Romanian oil !).

Ironicaly, the Germans studies made at the time did already expose that. Of course the other irony is that the so important Romanian production slowed during the war (before the bombardment I mean) and that the ad hoc unit of petroleum industry specialists the Germans sent into the Caucase would have been better employed in Romania.

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 5:06:33 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafo

"Remaining axis rail capacity" is a game abstraction. There was not such a thing. The rail system is already not a strong point of WITE, let's not go farther in the wrong way.

Also, the many pb with the Caucasus oil are well documented and they are ... huge. First, the Soviet damaged everything at an incredible level. Almost nothing could have been extract before the end of the war. But that's not even the worst : the Germans had just no way to bring the oil back in Germany. The only way was through the Black Sea (main pb, not enough tankers) and then on the Danube (pb : the Danube was already at full capacity with Romanian oil !).

Ironicaly, the Germans studies made at the time did already expose that. Of course the other irony is that the so important Romanian production slowed during the war (before the bombardment I mean) and that the ad hoc unit of petroleum industry specialists the Germans sent into the Caucase would have been better employed in Romania.


First of all WitE already models damaged facilities that are captured. Also, if you want to argue the capabilities Germans had or would have put in place (for oil) to send limited amounts stocks back to the Fatherland, you'll lose that argument. I'm not saying everything, but limited.

I'm trying to solve a fundamental problem I see with the game. Currently, captured stocks are NOT AT ANY LEVEL being moved back to the Fatherland until maybe the last minute when they might be needed. But even that concept that is yet to be known with certainy. My current concern is with a shortage of resources when I have tens of thousands of 'resource' stocks in captured Sov cities connected to the rail net... which IMO is UNACCEPTABLE. If the game doesn't think or want to model captured stocks, then just eliminated it, but don't leave it bugged.

That's all this thread is for. We can have an offline argument about the capabilities of the Germans to move captured resources back to Germany if you like.


As far as game 'abstraction' goes, you could say that about almost all mechanics of this game (i.e. combat is an abstraction, unit supply is an abstraction, partisans are an abstraction). So I don't see any point to that empty comment.

< Message edited by kirkgregerson -- 5/13/2011 5:11:23 PM >

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 5:09:54 PM   
heliodorus04


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafo

"Remaining axis rail capacity" is a game abstraction. There was not such a thing. The rail system is already not a strong point of WITE, let's not go farther in the wrong way.

Also, the many pb with the Caucasus oil are well documented and they are ... huge. First, the Soviet damaged everything at an incredible level. Almost nothing could have been extract before the end of the war. But that's not even the worst : the Germans had just no way to bring the oil back in Germany. The only way was through the Black Sea (main pb, not enough tankers) and then on the Danube (pb : the Danube was already at full capacity with Romanian oil !).

Ironicaly, the Germans studies made at the time did already expose that. Of course the other irony is that the so important Romanian production slowed during the war (before the bombardment I mean) and that the ad hoc unit of petroleum industry specialists the Germans sent into the Caucase would have been better employed in Romania.


Certainly interesting operational considerations in your information that I appreciate.
I'm not really going to be a happy customer of WitE if I can't improve Germany's resource disadvantage by taking what I capture from the Soviets.

If there is no capability to leverage captured resources to your advantage, then there's no point in a 1942 campaign, strategically speaking, and Germany should just start digging in along the Dnepr in about August 1941. In which case, there's not really a lot of reason to invade the Soviet Union. So on Turn 1, I should just not launch Barbarossa and call myself the winner, having improved dramatically on the historical results. :)

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(in reply to Rafo35)
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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 5:15:33 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline 		heliodorus04,

Yes, as you've seen from my posts I agree 100%. We have to remind ourselves this is a game and there needs to be some level of 'freedom' within historical reason for both sides to try different strategies. If this game or any other puts too many constraints, because they were exactly what DID happen, the game becomes something of a repetitive simulation of the east war and will a over a short period lack repalyability and enjoyment.


< Message edited by kirkgregerson -- 5/13/2011 5:16:53 PM >

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 5:26:20 PM   
Rafo35

 

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quote:


As far as game 'abstraction' goes, you could say that about almost all mechanics of this game (i.e. combat is an abstraction, unit supply is an abstraction, partisans are an abstraction). So I don't see any point to that empty comment.


Sorry, I meant a "bad" abstraction. But certainly a necessary one, a true simulation of the rail problematic would be a nightmare (it would be a huge improvment of the supply system though). Free capacity isn't free actually, and the German players should already be thankfull to be allowed to move troops without any consequence (as far as I know, no less ammunition, fuel, spare part, or replacement will reach the front). So having this no existent free capacity used for something else is not a step in the right direction to understand the war.

By the way, WITE you could have a "rail doctrine" where you tune the effort of the rail between supply, replacement, food, fuel, stock of ressource, etc.

< Message edited by Rafo -- 5/13/2011 5:40:50 PM >

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RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 5:39:21 PM   
Rafo35

 

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quote:

I'm not really going to be a happy customer of WitE if I can't improve Germany's resource disadvantage by taking what I capture from the Soviets.


To each is own. I won't be happy to improve artificially the German production.

quote:

If there is no capability to leverage captured resources to your advantage, then there's no point in a 1942 campaign, strategically speaking,


Deprive the Soviet of those ressources, kill parts of the Red army while you still can, or try something even more ambitious that would deprive the Soviet of more manpower and/or generate a second industrial evacuation.

The alternative was debated at the time. Some wanted to go for Moscow and some wanted to use 42 to refit the German army (no major offensive at all). So you actually have the same choice to make (but with lot's more information, of course).

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 28
RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 5:39:28 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline 		Rafo,

I think we agree in general terms.

Yes, expanding the rail system in WitE would be a nice plus. However, I think the WitE team has bigger fish to fry.
<cough> air combat

(in reply to Rafo35)
Post #: 29
RE: Why are captured resources not being used? - 5/13/2011 6:28:16 PM   
squatter

 

Posts: 1033
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		First off, we all know what the historical German experience with Caucuses oil was. The germans never captured Grozny, and only held Maikop for around four months I believe.

The game allows the player to better this performance, and we are talking about players who might hold the Caucus oil locations for a year, maybe two. Who knows what would have happened then? The question is: how is the game going to simulate the Axis player controlling the production centres for longer than historical periods?

We all know the Russian sabotaged their oil production before it fell into Russian hands. The game simulates that, and nobody is challenging that.

Point 1: The game simulation has it that if the German player holds an oil producing location for long enough for damage to reduce below 50%, some production will restart. I have Grozny at oil damage 40%, but nothing is being produced. Is this a bug?

Point 2: The game allows you to capture already produced resources. I have captured 200,000 tons of oil. This is not oil in the ground, but oil that has already been extracted. Yet none is being used. 100k of this is refined petroleum (fuel, not oil). Okay, rail resourced to move this back to Germany may be scant, but what of the Panzer corps I have parked in Grozny. They are sitting on 100k tonns of fuel in nearby storage. Yet they wont touch it. They instead send back to the reich for more fuel. If this is not a bug, then it is a feature the designers may have overlooked.


(in reply to kirkgregerson)
Post #: 30
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