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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 8:02:27 AM

Zakhal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AstroCat

My system is still on the higher end overall and all other games, like the Total War series, CMSF, various FPSs, etc... all run right where they should performance wise. It's not jerky or anything like what 10fps would be like, it's just expectations. Given the graphics of PCO and the 580gtxSSC card I have plus Q9650@3.6Ghz you'd think I'd be able to coast at 30+ fps...

I have i7@2.8Ghz,6Gt ddr3 and 580GTX. The game runs fast on all settings maxed. I havent noticed a single performance issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richie61
I have a feeling the demo isn't putting much of a load on the GPU for example. My fps are around 26, but the GPU and fan loads/ speeds doesn't ramp up much at all.

That could explain it though.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 5/12/2011 8:12:34 AM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 8:40:29 AM

Zap

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I definetly need to upgrade my computer for this one. AI processing was slow on mine. This will definitely take away from the enjoyment of this game. And I really want to give this game every chance to impress me.
Atholon xp 3000+

I've really have to get used to game play. Because ,as it is ,I can't immerse myself into this game. I have to say that I let Combat Mission go after a few tries because it was akward. This one has the same feel to me.
By akward ,I mean, I find it hard to keep track of things on the battle field. So one demo battle I left all my troops where they were. And just let my troops and tanks fire away. Funny I got a major victory.
Lol, I would have faired much worse if I controlled things more.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 8:43:42 AM

Mad Russian

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There is an immersion factor in PCO if you play it very much. There are multiple options in the UI that allow you to keep track of what's going on in the battle.

Like you said. Sometimes it just takes time is all.

Good Hunting.

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Post #: 243

RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 9:24:21 AM

Zakhal

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With the right settings and little learning curve Ive had no trouble keeping track of the game. In the winter defense scenario everything went perfectly according to my plan. 45mm ATGs fired at the germanic invaders from right flank while platoon of T-26 rushed at them from the left flank and ATR fire rained upon them from the front and mortar barrage from above. It was quite fun to watch the german vehicles get hits and blow up one by one.

For record I have to say I didnt really like either of the previous PC games. I tried hard but things like reaction turns and lack of infantry immersion killed it. This game though seems to draw me in and I dont even have to try like it.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:26:22 AM

diablo1

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quote:

I have i7@2.8Ghz,6Gt ddr3 and 580GTX. The game runs fast on all settings maxed. I havent noticed a single performance issue.

This ^ is not a common machine for most wargamers so this input is pretty useless to the main load of gamers buying or playing this. Wargamers don't usually upgrade like mainstream FPS or RTS players.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:43:42 AM

Zakhal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

I have i7@2.8Ghz,6Gt ddr3 and 580GTX. The game runs fast on all settings maxed. I havent noticed a single performance issue.

This ^ is not a common machine for most wargamers so this input is pretty useless to the main load of gamers buying or playing this. Wargamers don't usually upgrade like mainstream FPS or RTS players.

How do you know? Many here have good PCs and play more than just wargames. And mainstream or not its three years old.

Also it might prove that the game engine is dependant on good processor not GPU.

I wonder what system requirements the new CM will have. It looks even more graphics intensive than Panzer Command.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 5/12/2011 11:49:45 AM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 1:23:17 PM

AstroCat

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New CM has its performance issues as well but they are similar to CMSF.

quote:

I have i7@2.8Ghz,6Gt ddr3 and 580GTX. The game runs fast on all settings maxed. I haven't noticed a single performance issue.

Have you checked your fps, I have a similar system and for sure get into the low 20's at times, to me that is not running fast. I know my system is ok, because in all other games, most of are much more graphically challenging, including CMSF and now the CMBN demo it performs as expected.

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Post #: 247

RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 1:34:02 PM

diablo1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

I have i7@2.8Ghz,6Gt ddr3 and 580GTX. The game runs fast on all settings maxed. I havent noticed a single performance issue.

This ^ is not a common machine for most wargamers so this input is pretty useless to the main load of gamers buying or playing this. Wargamers don't usually upgrade like mainstream FPS or RTS players.

How do you know? Many here have good PCs and play more than just wargames. And mainstream or not its three years old.

Also it might prove that the game engine is dependant on good processor not GPU.

I wonder what system requirements the new CM will have. It looks even more graphics intensive than Panzer Command.

Well just reading others posts on their systems specs for one. I myself wait 5 years before I'll even think about upgrading and even then buy around mid level of the times since high end systems are way over priced and they just aren't worth it for one or two mainstream games that "might" use 50% of their capabilities. But, of course I can't be 100% sure of what anyone has unless they post them, but, I'd still wager most wargamers are below the high end computer systems vs those that play FPS and RTS games. I don't play FPS or RTS games so I don't need the high end systems either. Waste of money if you're not into those.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 1:45:55 PM

Mobius

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I don't think you really have to set the graphics to ultra. This mostly just determines the distance that grass, trees go out of sight and high detail models turn into less defined models. It doesn't make the bolts on the tanks any more boltier.
You really can't see any change to lower detailed models at the high setting.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 2:06:35 PM

Zakhal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1
Well just reading others posts on their systems specs for one. I myself wait 5 years before I'll even think about upgrading and even then buy around mid level of the times since high end systems are way over priced and they just aren't worth it for one or two mainstream games that "might" use 50% of their capabilities. But, of course I can't be 100% sure of what anyone has unless they post them, but, I'd still wager most wargamers are below the high end computer systems vs those that play FPS and RTS games. I don't play FPS or RTS games so I don't need the high end systems either. Waste of money if you're not into those.

I had many reasons for upgrading three years ago. One of them was the native 1920x1080 resolution in my to-be new HDTV. Old pc even though it was mid to highend couldnt have handled that well in most games.

As for games there are plenty of graphics intensive wargames too. But of course if you stick to 2D wargames then you dont need high end PC.

But in anycase if people are having performance issues with this game it might be because of lack of gpu utilization. Its very taxing to run game engine on cpu.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 5/12/2011 2:13:26 PM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 2:38:53 PM

Erik Rutins

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It's true that Panzer Command overall is more CPU-bound than GPU-bound. There are a lot more optimizations that can be made though and we'll continue to optimize whereever possible in the future.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 3:20:39 PM

AstroCat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's true that Panzer Command overall is more CPU-bound than GPU-bound. There are a lot more optimizations that can be made though and we'll continue to optimize whereever possible in the future.

Regards,

- Erik

I agree this is what is going on, if you were able to unload some of the load onto the GPU I think this game would really fly with performance. I'll keep a look out for improvements moving forward. Although my CPU is barely being taxed while running the game... 25% of 1 core on average.

< Message edited by AstroCat -- 5/12/2011 3:21:28 PM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 3:44:33 PM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AstroCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's true that Panzer Command overall is more CPU-bound than GPU-bound. There are a lot more optimizations that can be made though and we'll continue to optimize whereever possible in the future.

Regards,

- Erik

I agree this is what is going on, if you were able to unload some of the load onto the GPU I think this game would really fly with performance. I'll keep a look out for improvements moving forward. Although my CPU is barely being taxed while running the game... 25% of 1 core on average.

That may not be possible. It might not be the graphics bit but the relative sighting. I'm not the programmer but my guess is that even in replay the relative sighting has to run in order to draw the rubber bands. I don't think that can be handled by the graphics cards as there are things that reduce sighting factors that need floating point calculations.
But that is only a guess.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 3:47:13 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AstroCat
I agree this is what is going on, if you were able to unload some of the load onto the GPU I think this game would really fly with performance. I'll keep a look out for improvements moving forward. Although my CPU is barely being taxed while running the game... 25% of 1 core on average.

Interesting. It uses multiple cores on every system I've tested it on. Do you have something set affinity-wise that's telling it to use just one core?

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 3:53:34 PM

BigJ62

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Ditto mine is using muti cores

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 3:54:02 PM

AstroCat

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Your prob right, I will double check that to make sure later today... I apologize if I read it wrong. I think I just looked at the 1st core reading... still though not maxing out the cpu.

< Message edited by AstroCat -- 5/12/2011 3:55:53 PM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 5:22:37 PM

eniced73

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I have every setting maxed out and am running at around 30FPS up high. When I bring it down and the grass kicks in I am getting about 15FPS. This is a pretty good drop but it is bearable. In fact it does not really bother me at all. Just for another reference. My specs are below.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 6:08:06 PM

JMass

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eniced73

I have every setting maxed out and am running at around 30FPS up high. When I bring it down and the grass kicks in I am getting about 15FPS. This is a pretty good drop but it is bearable. In fact it does not really bother me at all. Just for another reference. My specs are below.

I am running at the same fps, grass is a recently add and I am sure it will be optimized, the drop of 15 fps is noticeable only if I watch at the number show by F1 or Fraps. My specs are Windows 7, i5@2.67GHz, 8GB RAM, NVidia 250GTS no overclocked.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 6:26:09 PM

Zakhal

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After playing new CM demo I have to say that while its impressive its not just all-good. Controls are sluggish and replays are so fast that its hard to keep up what happening in combat.

There is no slow down of replay like in CO so its hard to enjoy the small details. Perhaps I need som more adjustment to CM but for now Id rather play PC if they would just release it.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 5/12/2011 6:29:37 PM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 7:01:02 PM

diablo1

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How do you check to see how many cores it's using? I have quad cores myself.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 10:54:52 PM

sztartur2

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I tried the demo myself.

I love CMX1. I like a lot of games from Matrix.

I find the platoon concept a good one.

BUT.

How can it be that a 82mm mortar barrage take out several PZIII? To add suppression some damage maybe some internal injury it is OK but taking out 1-2 panzers / barrage on regular basis? I played Steel Panthers, CM series, and many othersit never happened like this with mortar fore of this calibre, this is very unrtealistic IMHO. It went off my HD within a minute...

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:02:06 PM

Zakhal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

I tried the demo myself.

I love CMX1. I like a lot of games from Matrix.

I find the platoon concept a good one.

BUT.

How can it be that a 82mm mortar barrage take out several PZIII? To add suppression some damage maybe some internal injury it is OK but taking out 1-2 panzers / barrage on regular basis? I played Steel Panthers, CM series, and many othersit never happened like this with mortar fore of this calibre, this is very unrtealistic IMHO. It went off my HD within a minute...

Are you sure it was 82mm mortars and not the 45mm ATGs that were hidden in the woods?

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:03:47 PM

Mad Russian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

I tried the demo myself.

I love CMX1. I like a lot of games from Matrix.

I find the platoon concept a good one.

BUT.

How can it be that a 82mm mortar barrage take out several PZIII? To add suppression some damage maybe some internal injury it is OK but taking out 1-2 panzers / barrage on regular basis? I played Steel Panthers, CM series, and many othersit never happened like this with mortar fore of this calibre, this is very unrtealistic IMHO. It went off my HD within a minute...

According to Otto Carius in his book "Tigers in the Mud" one of the main forms of damage to the Tigers were mortars. They would land on the back deck or along side them and take out a Tiger. Something a T-34/76 couldn't do.

But the tutorial has other Russian weapons I would suspect of being the ones that knocked out your PzIII's.

Taking it off your HD in minutes didn't let you have the game long enough to tell what was going on. PCO has a very deep tank combat model. Much deeper than a 2 minute play through.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 5/12/2011 11:05:40 PM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:04:21 PM

diablo1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

I tried the demo myself.

I love CMX1. I like a lot of games from Matrix.

I find the platoon concept a good one.

BUT.

How can it be that a 82mm mortar barrage take out several PZIII? To add suppression some damage maybe some internal injury it is OK but taking out 1-2 panzers / barrage on regular basis? I played Steel Panthers, CM series, and many othersit never happened like this with mortar fore of this calibre, this is very unrtealistic IMHO. It went off my HD within a minute...

One may ask that same question about Sgt. York who took out a whole "company" by himself. Sometimes extrodinary things just happen. I'd give it another go or two and see if it happens again. It was just uncommon luck really. So the computer ai rolled a couple of three #1's. I've seen it happen in board wargames before.

< Message edited by diablo1 -- 5/12/2011 11:05:25 PM >

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:12:08 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur
How can it be that a 82mm mortar barrage take out several PZIII? To add suppression some damage maybe some internal injury it is OK but taking out 1-2 panzers / barrage on regular basis? I played Steel Panthers, CM series, and many othersit never happened like this with mortar fore of this calibre, this is very unrtealistic IMHO. It went off my HD within a minute...

That's not actually typical, though I suppose it's theoretically possible (were they unbuttoned too?). The early war tanks did not have heavy top armor, but that would still be very unlucky. I encourage you to give it another try, I think you just had some very unlucky "dice".

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:20:46 PM

sztartur2

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Gents,

I have given it several runs.

The 45mms did not take them out. I took them out in my first try because I advanced slow. I checked the messgae log. 82mm round firing logged. Next message PZ III out.

In the first try I won the battle but a 82mm mortar round took out a PZIII. I thought it was plain very bad luck.
In the next try the mortar barrage took out 2 PZIII 1 Halftrack one infantry squad in the first two turns.
After experiencing that I took it off the HD within a minute.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/12/2011 11:53:30 PM

Erik Rutins

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Ok, I haven't lost a Panzer III to mortars in that scenario in a long time, but we may just play it differently. We take your feedback seriously and we'll take a look at that and see if we need to balance it a bit better. Did you try the second scenario at all?

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/13/2011 12:08:27 AM

JMass

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I played it three times and I lost only one or two SPW, never a Pz III...

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/13/2011 12:15:55 AM

diablo1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

Gents,

I have given it several runs.

The 45mms did not take them out. I took them out in my first try� because I advanced slow. I checked the messgae log. 82mm round firing logged. Next message PZ III out.

In the first try I won the battle but a 82mm mortar round took out a PZIII. I thought it was plain very bad luck.
In the next try the mortar barrage took out 2 PZIII 1 Halftrack one infantry squad in the first two turns.
After experiencing that I took it off the HD within a minute.

Did you leave them in the "default setup area"? I immediately moved all my units to the woods and to the far right, tanks as far forward and to the right as they would go. I didn't lose anything the whole game to 82mm mortar fire though I did get several supressions I commented about to Erik and team. If you give up that easily you must hate losing? I'd never give up just because I lost several units in a "few" games. Now maybe I dunno Erik and team had it in for you and if the computer ai found out your name was Sztartur and they programmed it to key on your units just for funzzies knowing you would log online and complain about it so they could get a good laugh well yeah I guess I'd remove it also from my HD but I don't think that happened.

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RE: Demo first Impressions - 5/13/2011 12:24:13 AM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur
In the first try I won the battle but a 82mm mortar round took out a PZIII. I thought it was plain very bad luck.

That probably was just plain bad luck. The mortar is rated as penetrating 1.5cm while the turret top of a PZIII is also rated as a 1.5cm. The engine covers and hull top is rated as 2.5cm. (This is higher than the actual armor because its expected to be impacting at an angle.)
If you look at actual data of armor penetration / armor buckling from HE shells in the table from Aberdeen you will see that a mortar penetrates less than shells of comparable diameter. (In the game it is sometimes possible to penetrate more than just the listed maximum.)