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RE: The fall of Scoodra

 
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RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/11/2011 4:46:19 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		If he doesn't have much force in the area, and you're confident you can take and hold, then you should be fine with the shipping you have...wait to see what CR and Nemo think....They're a tad more experienced than me...

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Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 451
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 6:03:56 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 14,15 42

Two days that saw the loss of 3 more blockade runners (2TKs and 1AKs) near Karachi due to the Hordes of jap subs infesting those waters and, above all, two days that saw the final end of Chengtu. Rge city, after an heroic resistance lasted more than 2 months, finally gave up the fight...troops are pushed out of the perimeter with unbelievable losses...
Chungking remanins the last chinese city held by the allies...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 101733 troops, 1361 guns, 367 vehicles, Assault Value = 2610

Defending force 43632 troops, 651 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 624

Japanese adjusted assault: 1910

Allied adjusted defense: 637

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chengtu !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
     1892 casualties reported
        Squads: 7 destroyed, 62 disabled
        Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 114 disabled
        Engineers: 1 destroyed, 16 disabled


Allied ground losses:
     17480 casualties reported
        Squads: 767 destroyed, 1 disabled
        Non Combat: 941 destroyed, 1 disabled
        Engineers: 169 destroyed, 1 disabled
     Guns lost 80 (77 destroyed, 3 disabled)
     Units retreated 21


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
   32nd Division
   41st Division
   19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
   15th Division
   104th/A Division
   7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
   61st Infantry Brigade
   17th Division
   13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
   104th/B Division
   37th Division
   39th/A Division
   34th Division
   3rd Division
   39th/B Division
   1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
   39th/C Division
   51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
   6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
   Mongol Garrison Army
   1st Army
   52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
   21st Mortar Battalion
   13th Army
   4th Mortar Battalion
   15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
   China Expeditionary Army
   2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
   11th Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
   41st Chinese Corps
   90th Chinese Corps
   92nd Chinese Corps
   55th Chinese Corps
   95th Chinese Corps
   24th Chinese Corps
   34th Chinese Corps
   47th Chinese Corps
   52nd Chinese Corps
   38th Chinese Corps
   71st Chinese Corps
   36th Chinese Corps
   3rd Chinese Corps
   96th Chinese Corps
   3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
   3rd Chinese Base Force
   4th Group Army
   35th Group Army
   4th War Area
   Red Chinese Army
   7th Chinese Base Force


Lost contact with the KB since the beginning of the Scoodra siege...



< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 5/12/2011 6:06:01 AM >

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 452
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 6:10:09 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		One thing is disturbing me...since his advance from the Calcutta area he completely stopped using his Betties/Nells bombers in India or China....it's been a month now since the last time i saw one of them....if they've been transfered back to the pacific i may be in deep trouble...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 453
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 7:18:44 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Ok a brief review of the situation in India.

Between Karachi, Hydebaran (S) and Jodpur i've managed to collect 450.000 supplies and some 230.000 fuel. Not bad i'd say. The sacrifice of all those blockade runners (i've lost nearly 50 AKs and 10 TKs in the last months resuppling Karachi) was worth the result.

Edit to say that we have more 100.000 supplies in Bombay with 130.000 fuel...should be enough to hold for a while there...Bombay is getting sieged in these days. Lots of units closing in...

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 5/12/2011 9:32:25 AM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 454
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 10:36:13 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		Have you considered shipping the fuel on AKs instead of TKs? TKs tend to be valuable imo.
Do you have fighters that can be sent to the islands you intend to capture?
The fact that KB is "missing" can mean alot of things ofc but the most likely seems;
-refueling
-relocating to cover the channel from Aden or Cape Town
-he has gotten intel of your units prepping for the Pacific.

Does intel tell you anything useful about the islands you are targeting?

Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 455
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 11:01:41 AM   
Erkki


Posts: 1461
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Have you considered shipping the fuel on AKs instead of TKs? TKs tend to be valuable imo.
Do you have fighters that can be sent to the islands you intend to capture?
The fact that KB is "missing" can mean alot of things ofc but the most likely seems;
-refueling
-relocating to cover the channel from Aden or Cape Town
-he has gotten intel of your units prepping for the Pacific.

Does intel tell you anything useful about the islands you are targeting?

Terje


Japs dont get that kind of intel... Turn 172 in my PBEM and all I get is "radio transmissions/heavy volume radio transmissions at hex XX,YY".


< Message edited by Erkki -- 5/12/2011 11:02:15 AM >

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Post #: 456
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 11:08:28 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Have you considered shipping the fuel on AKs instead of TKs? TKs tend to be valuable imo.
Do you have fighters that can be sent to the islands you intend to capture?
The fact that KB is "missing" can mean alot of things ofc but the most likely seems;
-refueling
-relocating to cover the channel from Aden or Cape Town
-he has gotten intel of your units prepping for the Pacific.

Does intel tell you anything useful about the islands you are targeting?

Terje


Hi mate.

Yes, the TKs i lost yesterday were the last ones of an old tankers convoy sent one month ago. When the KB arrived i divided the big TF into smaller TFs and sent them back to Adebadan every 2/3 days in order to avoid detection. Now i'm not using them anymore!

If the KB is coming back to the pacific...my guess is that India can be saved. Without the KB parked in front of Karachi i can hope to keep the Aden Channell open (even with some losses on my side). The air force at Karachi is strong enough to prevent the stationing of any SCTF without air cover there and subs can be nasty but the cannot stop the flow of reinforcements. If he crosses the LOD he will need the whole combined fleet to stop the reinforcements coming from Aden!

I checked the intel reports...haven't got a single report about the Marshalls/Gilberts. If he has gotten some intel about my movements...he has two choices: redirect some of his assets to the pacific, thus reducing his chances of taking India, or hope to rely only on his naval and air forces. I'm pretty sure all those betties taken from the Indian front have been redirected to the pacific...i just hope my CVs will provide enough coverage.

I have many squadrons of fighters and dive bombers ready to be transfered on the captured islands as soon as an AF will be built (all those islands, as i said, haven't been built yet by the japs).


(in reply to terje439)
Post #: 457
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 11:08:59 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki


Japs dont get that kind of intel... Turn 172 in my PBEM and all I get is "radio transmissions/heavy volume radio transmissions at hex XX,YY".



Finger crossed

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Post #: 458
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 11:29:59 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		.




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Post #: 459
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 11:35:22 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		The last defensive perimeter




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 460
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 5:00:42 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		May 16-17 1942

A japanese tank army, composed of 7 tank regiments, easily conquered Surat, defended only by a tiny base force. My 4Es paid a little visit mauling the 7th tank regiment just before the base was conquered. Finally i'm able to give him some headhaces...even if small.

Morning Air attack on 7th Tank Regiment, at 39,20 (Surat)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes


Allied aircraft
Wellington Ic x 16
B-17E Fortress x 37
LB-30 Liberator x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 83 (10 destroyed, 73 disabled)


Morning Air attack on 7th Tank Regiment, at 39,20 (Surat)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 13 (10 destroyed, 3 disabled)





18 units just entered in Bombay, layin the siege to the poor city, now isolated from the rest of the world.

A bombardment TF arrived at Attu atoll and smashed for the 7th time the little island...

In 4 days we'll be ready to start the operations in NOPAC. We're planning a little expansion regaining the Aleutinas thus advancing the front and hopefully forcing him to committ some of his reserves to the Kuriles.

Another xAK goes to the bottom in front of Karachi due to his nasty subs...

Still no sign of the KB...

Lots of moving single ship TF near Canton Island...he's sniffing something...

The next 2 months will be decisive.

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 5/12/2011 5:18:06 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 461
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 6:00:30 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		GreyJoy, what's your situation in Bombay? AV, fort level, supply?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 462
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 10:29:53 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		100k supplies, 4 forts and 600 AVs...not much. When i decided to go for Karachi i chose to leave at Bombay only the burmense units and keep the best ones in the north

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 5/12/2011 10:30:52 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 463
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 10:43:52 PM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

100k supplies, 4 forts and 600 AVs...not much. When i decided to go for Karachi i chose to leave at Bombay only the burmense units and keep the best ones in the north



That's beautiful! He will go in there expecting a huge and lengthy battle, and your troops will fold instantly. In the meanwhile the rest of your troops will get away.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 464
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 11:32:35 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I admire GreyJoy for soldiering gamely and fighting his own war as best he can. He is going to learn a great deal and he's already showing admirable pluck. Good show!

But I have to say that his decision to abandon Bombay in favor of Karachi was a huge mistake. I don't think he has a prayer in India now. Sorry.

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 465
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/12/2011 11:41:58 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		ADB i don't understand if you're serious or ironic...

CR, thanks for the kind words!
I know you were against that decision...and i'm pretty sure facts will show you were right...but i really didn't feel confortable about Bombay instead of Karachi...
However he has already massed 2000 AVs at Bombay...he will storm the place easily i'd say...two days of bombardments and my troops are already falling like flies ....

New turn will come soon in my mailbox...we've had some interesting 4Es actions this turn...soon the combat report!



(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 466
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 12:22:17 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		May 18-19 1942

4 jap DDs tried to get close to Karachi. Our ASW TF composed by 4 british DDs intercepted and engaged battle. We sunk 1 of the enemies for no losses on our side
During the morning phases 50 4Es attacked Surat. The japs this time managed to shot down 2 of ours, badly damaging most of the others but the losses inflicted to the enemy were far superior...pretty happy about the results. We destroyed 59 planes on the ground and 6 more in the air! Not bad!!!!...lost 5 4Es in the process...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 467
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 12:32:49 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		a good day i'd call it




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 468
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 2:51:56 AM   
Prydwen


Posts: 156
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline 		I've been following this from the beginning but don't think I've posted yet because I mainly lurk around here.  But I really feel I have to second what Canoerebel said about you.  I like that you aren't quitting.  I also like that you're listening to everybody's advice but not bowing to it because, in the end, it's you who pushes the end turn button.  Right or wrong, win or lose, it's on you, not anybody else. 

You're also not the only one who is learning from this game.  Keep up the hard work.

ItsAMadhouse


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Post #: 469
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 3:02:20 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ADB i don't understand if you're serious or ironic...


I'm serious - the overkill at Bombay means that many of his good units are not racing northwards. And after Bombay falls he has to re-set everyone for Karachi. In the meanwhile you get more time, and every day helps you.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 470
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 3:11:03 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

We destroyed 59 planes on the ground and 6 more in the air! Not bad!!!!...lost 5 4Es in the process.


Wow - that's quite a mistake on Radar's part. What in the world was he doing with so many planes on the ground in range of your 4Es? He should be shuttling them in and out via air/rail.

Overall, the air loss numbers are in your favour - that's good.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 471
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 5:23:49 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ItsAMadhouse

I've been following this from the beginning but don't think I've posted yet because I mainly lurk around here.  But I really feel I have to second what Canoerebel said about you.  I like that you aren't quitting.  I also like that you're listening to everybody's advice but not bowing to it because, in the end, it's you who pushes the end turn button.  Right or wrong, win or lose, it's on you, not anybody else. 

You're also not the only one who is learning from this game.  Keep up the hard work.

ItsAMadhouse



Thank you ItsAMadhouse for dropping these lines. It's a pleasure to know so many folks are following my indian adventures

(in reply to Prydwen)
Post #: 472
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 5:36:03 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123

quote:

ADB i don't understand if you're serious or ironic...


I'm serious - the overkill at Bombay means that many of his good units are not racing northwards. And after Bombay falls he has to re-set everyone for Karachi. In the meanwhile you get more time, and every day helps you.


That was the intention...Scoodra, Diego, now Bombay, and even Attu Island, all these defensive positions were all part of the plan to gain time for Karachi.
Now he has invested a lot in Bombay even if he could have done more...for the moment that's what he is bringing:

Ground combat at Bombay (36,24)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3047 troops, 288 guns, 129 vehicles, Assault Value = 1968

Defending force 16911 troops, 137 guns, 8 vehicles, Assault Value = 589


Allied ground losses:
114 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
143rd Infantry Regiment
33rd Infantry Regiment
148th Infantry Regiment
5th Division
144th Infantry Regiment
48th Recon Regiment
4th Division
6th Guards Division
3rd Mortar Battalion
Southern Army
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
8th RF Gun Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
55th Mountain Gun Regiment
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
56th Field Artillery Regiment
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
11th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
2nd Burma Brigade
Madras Police Battalion
10th Burma Rifles Battalion
4th Burma Rifles Battalion
Bombay Fortress
1st Burma Brigade
13th Burma Rifles Battalion
12th Burma Rifles Battalion
Rangoon BAF Battalion
Railway BAF Battalion
2nd Assam Rifles Battalion
1st Assam Rifles Battalion
Upper Burma BAF Battalion
6th Burma Rifles Battalion
4/8th Gurkha Battalion
Mandalay BMP Battalion
9/11th Sikh Battalion
BFF Brigade
4/14th Punjab Battalion
1/5 Det. South Ind
Southern Command
1/1 Central Detach.
1/1 Det. West Coast


....about that 4Es raid...well Surat fell the turn before and Rader had not have the time to move in his base forces so he has for sure rushed in his fighters without the base forces that were probably scheldued to move by rail the next day. The fighters were numerous on the first day (18th)...more than 70 in the air...but on the second day they were only a shade of the previous day CAP

Look at this:

First two raids on the 18th

Morning Air attack on Surat , at 39,20

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 48
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 16
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 18



Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 31
LB-30 Liberator x 2


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 16 damaged
LB-30 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged



Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
13 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Surat , at 39,20

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 8
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 5



Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 18


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-15-II Babs: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 4 damaged



Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb


Training flight from Tainan Ku S-1 has been caught up in attack
Training flight from 260th Sentai has been caught up in attack


As you can see the first raid did not destroy anything on the ground but probably badly damaged some planes in the air...planes that could not be refitted to fly on the next raid...and the situation got worse with the second day...

Morning Air attack on Surat , at 39,20

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 2
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 10



Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 39


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-15-II Babs: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled



Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 13

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 473
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 6:09:54 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Ok, doing a brief resumé of my forces in northern India (between Karachi, hydebaran s. and Jodpur) i have more than 5.000 AVs, composed of Aus, Brit and Indian troops. 900 of those AVs are composed by tank units that lack in experience but should be far superior in terms of firepower to their japs counterparts. Have a decent artillery army too, with some good medium pieces.
the whole army is divided into 4 different Army Corps.

Rader probably has more than 10.000 AVs in India...so i'll have to be cautious and smart this time in defending. I'll try to be as mobile as possible, moving under the umbrella of my CAP and chose the fighting terrains intelligently.

If things will go very bad i'll move everything to Karachi (but that will surely be my very last option) and dig in beyond the level 7 forts i built there.

But, let me tell you...this time i'll try to fight like a real army. Those japs will find a different attitude!

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 474
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 6:27:24 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		GreyJoy,

Looks like he planned to take a pause to take Bombay before one final push on Karachi. I hope the KB doesn't derail your plans in CenPac.

Good show on the 4E strike. Maybe he's getting overconfident? (Whenever I'm losing I always say it's part of my strategy to make the other guy overconfident.)

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 475
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 6:47:28 AM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I'll try to be as mobile as possible, moving under the umbrella of my CAP and chose the fighting terrains intelligently.

If things will go very bad i'll move everything to Karachi (but that will surely be my very last option) and dig in beyond the level 7 forts i built there.

But, let me tell you...this time i'll try to fight like a real army. Those japs will find a different attitude!


I agree with the consensus that you are showing amazing fortitude and gumption here. I think your attitude is fine, it's your strategy I'd be worried about . Gutsy move sacrificing Bombay, but I think the time you would have delayed Radar with a stronger defence might be critical. It seems to me you should now first secure Karachi then worry about trying to stop the Japanese thrust. I fear you'll be outmaneuvered and get your troops beat up before they even have a chance to fall back on Karachi. If you're not in good shape when you get there, level 7 forts won't save you.

You've given up on good defensive terrain most of the match and Bombay is yet another example of a formidable position undermined and given up on too easily. A 4x terrain bonus with high forts with an adequate AV defence/support/supply would have been a real bulwark against the rest of India being overrun. The time and effort to take it would have allowed you time to strengthen your entire position in India. You're running out of defensible terrain and I think Radar will simply continue to move too quickly on you. You've allowed him an opportunity to simply mass everything he has and drive on your last redoubt. I think Radar will truly unleash the hounds now.

Best of luck and I am learning tons from your AAR so keep posting and soldiering on! The more I follow, the more I realize I have to learn myself.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 476
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 8:30:30 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I'll try to be as mobile as possible, moving under the umbrella of my CAP and chose the fighting terrains intelligently.

If things will go very bad i'll move everything to Karachi (but that will surely be my very last option) and dig in beyond the level 7 forts i built there.

But, let me tell you...this time i'll try to fight like a real army. Those japs will find a different attitude!


I agree with the consensus that you are showing amazing fortitude and gumption here. I think your attitude is fine, it's your strategy I'd be worried about . Gutsy move sacrificing Bombay, but I think the time you would have delayed Radar with a stronger defence might be critical. It seems to me you should now first secure Karachi then worry about trying to stop the Japanese thrust. I fear you'll be outmaneuvered and get your troops beat up before they even have a chance to fall back on Karachi. If you're not in good shape when you get there, level 7 forts won't save you.

You've given up on good defensive terrain most of the match and Bombay is yet another example of a formidable position undermined and given up on too easily. A 4x terrain bonus with high forts with an adequate AV defence/support/supply would have been a real bulwark against the rest of India being overrun. The time and effort to take it would have allowed you time to strengthen your entire position in India. You're running out of defensible terrain and I think Radar will simply continue to move too quickly on you. You've allowed him an opportunity to simply mass everything he has and drive on your last redoubt. I think Radar will truly unleash the hounds now.

Best of luck and I am learning tons from your AAR so keep posting and soldiering on! The more I follow, the more I realize I have to learn myself.

quote:

amazing fortitude and


Thank you SML!
Splitting my forces between Bombay and Karachi with the idea to strongly defend Bombay with 2500/3000 AVs was a sound strategy for sure. The terrain bonus is a huge advantage but my fear was that deciding so i would have lost all my - already poor - mobility, thus giving to Rader the chance to always decide what to do and when to do.
IMHO what really differs this game from Canoerebel's one (against Q-Ball) is that there CR's opponent never really wanted to conquest the whole India. He stated in many circumstances that he didn't want to cross the LOD and he never really committed the whole kitchen sink. While here Rader has clearly shown he wants the whole of China and the whole of India and he has committed everything he had.
Under this pov i think digging in at Bombay was a mistake.
If i was Rader i would simply put 1500 AVs at Bombay, creating strong air bases at Poona and Surat, filling them with nells and betties to forbid any shipping and sallies to bomb every day the base back to stoneage.
In the meantime i would have crossed the LOD with the other 9000 AVs i had and siege Karachi, estabilishing a base at Hydebarad(S), placing Nells and zeros and so closing once for good the Aden passage. Then it would only be a matter of Time. Karachi would have fallen easily...probably in one month or so and then Bombay would have been bombed till there was no supplies left...
In this scenario (with Scoodra and Diego Garcia fully operating with SCTFs, Nells and Zeros) i really don't see how Bombay and so India could have been saved.

While in the scenario we're in now, the loss of Bombay is for sure a tragedy but doesn't really change what i consider the real KEY of Indian survivability: Hydebaran (S).
Untill this base remanins in our hands we have a chance of keeping the flow of men, supplies and planes from Aden. Remember that if he crosses the LOD i'll have some very powefull units to send to Karachi. For sure if the KB remains parked there there are no chances but the KB cannot stay there forever as we've seen.
If Hydebaran falls, then it's just a matter of time. Nells and Zeros will keep Aden Channell interdicted to any allied ship.
For sure he can threaten my positions and advance in a more favourable terrain but...if you look at the map he has only 3 ways:

1) a drive directly towards Jodpur. I have some good forces here i can probably contest my flanks with my own tanks. And above all he will be moving under my CAP where my bombers will be able to interdict his movements and distrupt his troops. Then, if he succeeds to conquer Jodpur he only has a trail to march towards Hydebaran (S)...not exactly the best for his advancing troops.
2) he can outflank Jodpur westwards and reach the costal main road that leads to Hydebaran (S). True, but it's a long - and interrupted - road without any intermediate base. Again will be a march under my area of air-influence. I coul easily move my troops from Jodpur back to Hydebaran and when he will reach this location he would have to fight a strong army, fully supplied, under the constant threat of my bombers and again his LRCAP would operate in great disadvantage.
3) he can flank jodpur eastwards, passing through Dehli and Rapalwindi. Will be longer but safer but again, after Multan, the situation will surely be less easy for him...and in the meanwhile the trigger has been pulled and i'll have more units coming from Aden.

Now...the KB is not showing herself...i fear he has splitted his KB in two and sent back to the Marshalls some strong assets....gotta be more carefull now with my ongoing operation.
However the presence of an active and strong Karachi, i keep on underlining that, forces him to keep at least part of his carriers between Diego and Scoodra. If i had chosen Bombay instead he could more easily move back his naval assets, relyin only on his LBA...while now he cannot.

Well...that's my humble analysis...probably wrong but i believe it has some good points

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 477
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 8:49:25 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		How'd you end up with 5,000 AV in the Karachi sector and 600 in Bombay? Last time I recall you mentioniing your AV in India, it was a total of about 3,000.

5,000 is a decent number to work with in the Karachi sector, though I think you'd have been much better off with 2,500 in Bombay and 3,000 in Karachi. I don't think your opponent would have been able to take Bombay - at least until late summer or autumn, which could have been disastrous for him if you'd gone on the offensive elsewhere in India and in the Pacific. Oh well, water under the bridge now.

If you're opponent is going to cross the line, he needs to do so quickly rather than waiting to conquer Bombay. He needs to treat Bombay as he would Clark Field (bomb it until it's out of supplies, then attack with 1,000 AV or so) and he needs to get after Karachi immediately. Taking on 5,000 AV will be tough, but allowing things to just limp along for awhile will undoubtedly result in the Allies getting stronger and him getting a nasty surprise.

P.S. I still haven't read Q-Ball's AAR in hopes that he and I will resume that game eventually, so please don't reveal any OpSec. But I think he must have eventually decided to go for all of India. He had about 17 divisions plus other units there - something like 10,000 AV I think. But he dithered too long and allowed the Allies to reinforce and grow very strong. By the time he finally "moved out" towards NW India, the Allies were up to about 8,000 AV.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 478
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 9:33:21 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

How'd you end up with 5,000 AV in the Karachi sector and 600 in Bombay? Last time I recall you mentioniing your AV in India, it was a total of about 3,000.

5,000 is a decent number to work with in the Karachi sector, though I think you'd have been much better off with 2,500 in Bombay and 3,000 in Karachi. I don't think your opponent would have been able to take Bombay - at least until late summer or autumn, which could have been disastrous for him if you'd gone on the offensive elsewhere in India and in the Pacific. Oh well, water under the bridge now.

If you're opponent is going to cross the line, he needs to do so quickly rather than waiting to conquer Bombay. He needs to treat Bombay as he would Clark Field (bomb it until it's out of supplies, then attack with 1,000 AV or so) and he needs to get after Karachi immediately. Taking on 5,000 AV will be tough, but allowing things to just limp along for awhile will undoubtedly result in the Allies getting stronger and him getting a nasty surprise.

P.S. I still haven't read Q-Ball's AAR in hopes that he and I will resume that game eventually, so please don't reveal any OpSec. But I think he must have eventually decided to go for all of India. He had about 17 divisions plus other units there - something like 10,000 AV I think. But he dithered too long and allowed the Allies to reinforce and grow very strong. By the time he finally "moved out" towards NW India, the Allies were up to about 8,000 AV.


Oh god, sorry CR...i really thought your game was over I really apologise...sorry

Those Aus units that were sent to Oz in Jan finally made it back...passing through CT, then Aden (till Scoodra was in my hands) and then to Karachi...we've used lots of ships and, despite few losses that have weakened my Aus units, they made it!... i was really sweating when the KB stayed parked in front of Karachi for 2 weeks...my ships was on their foot at Aden waiting for the green light...finally when he decided to take scoodra and moved the KB back to cover his invasion i was able to pass through

Rader is already attacking Bombay. the 20-21st of May he managed with 2400 AVs to obtain immediately a 1-2 odd ratio and forts are already down to level 2...bombers , as usually, played a great role, softening my defences...however these days are gained...june is at the door now and supplies keep on flowing to Karachi despite the usual losses due to his subs (lost 3 more AKs during the last 2 days).

My recon says Rader has moved back most of his air force from Surat...probably he wants to lick his wounds since my last 4Es visit and storm bombay quickly to concentrate and mass his forces for the trigger line crossing.

Think it will be a fierce and interesting battle the upcoming one we're going to see in Northern India...

Still no signs of the KB-....

My Air ASW at Karachi is performing well...everyday we got at least a couple of messages of a sub reporting hit...especially by hudsonsIII.

Warming up our engines...we're ready to fight!

Oh, the operations NOPAC have finally started. The 3rd USMC para unit has been paradropped on Addak Island, conquering it. base forces and eng units are alrady moving, along with some decent surface TFs in coverage role.
In the next 2 weeks we're planning to estabilish a good foothold in the western aleutinas (that seem to be all empty after the initial japanese conquest).

Many many signs that Rader has sniffed something for the Marshalls...too many moving ships there...we've flooded the area with subs...let's see

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 479
RE: The fall of Scoodra - 5/13/2011 9:53:25 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Hmm, 600 AV of troops lost in Bombay for a 2 or 3 day delay. Seems like a terrible exchange rate to me.

In addition despite the way his armoured forces used good terrain to outmanoeuvre you before you are setting up a widely dispersed defensive line which is NOT contiguous, is NOT set up for a defence in depth to avoid penetration and exploiting into your strategic depth and in which you are simply begging to be pocketed and destroyed piecemeal just like you have been before.

Attitude is all well and good but your dispositions are suicidal.


It is good to play and learn from your own mistakes but is it necessary to learn every lesson personally the hard way?

Lastly, Rader is a reasonably good player. He isn't going to be bothered by those losses from your B-17s because in the greater scheme of things:
a) your B-17 losses represent about 10 days worth of replacements. He can replace his losses in less time than that. So, attritionally the losses you inflicted still work in his favour.
b) you won't have significant reserves of the B-17s, he will have reserves for each of those airframe types. Thus in 1 week his defence will be as strong, your attack will be weaker. Again, the exchange rate favours him.
c) Even if your B-17s were tearing him up it is a tiny morale-raising sideshow which does nothing about the situation which is going to develop in Karachi.

UNless there's a significant change in strategic dispositions your opponent is on the money to become the first player to take all of India and CHina. After that he should logically go for Australia and, if you're willing to play on, then mobilise everything to invade CONUSA and be the first player to capture the entire AE map. That is what I would be thinking of were I in his position.


So, it is great to see fighting spirit but I think you haven't yet come to terms with the land warfare model in AE and are going to find yourself surprised, yet again, despite advice to the contrary in this AAR, when his schwerpunkt dislocates your outpost line ( I won't call it an MLR since it isn't contiguous and it won't offer much resistance ).

Previously you had good options on the table - although you didn't know it. Now your only possibility for continuing to hold Australia into 1943 ( which IS what you are now fighting for, even though you don't realise it ) is to turtle into Karachi.


With all of the above said, you can still easily enough win the game so don't despair.... what you do over the next week will determine whether you go on to win or whether you go on to lose the map ( which is, IMO, a real possibility if your opponent is a man of ambition ).

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 480
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