Kiev: A Noob's Perspective

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Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/8/2011 11:48:54 PM

penlin

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Introduction

There are not too many AARs on these forums about the shorter, �Road To�, scenarios and not many from noobs like myself. So, here is one for the Road to Kiev scenario (Normal difficulty), the first time I�ve played it (v1.03 official). Prior to this, I have only played Road to Minsk (two times) and Road to Smolensk (once).

Hopefully, the noob advice will be useful to fellow beginners. Constructive criticism from the experts is welcome.

By the way, I�m not a hardcore wargamer. But, I�ve found WITE to be approachable enough to pick up and play but deep enough that it will be a long time before I really know what�s going on. Plus, it�s great fun. Kudos to the designers.

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/8/2011 11:58:04 PM

penlin

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Initial Plan

A quick look at the victory point locations shows that Kiev is the big prize (duh), followed by Odessa. I�ll focus on Kiev and hope that the forces in Romania (not shown in the image) can slug their way to Odessa. Pushing towards Kiev should bag enough of the minor victory locations to win.

Although the Kiev VP location is just to the west of the Dnepr river, I figure it will be easier to capture if I surround and isolate it. That means crossing the Dnepr, which I will do at Cherkassy. After running into major river barriers in the Smolensk scenario, I know that crossing the Dnepr could be very hard. Either I need to do this fast enough that a defensive line is not formed. Or, I hope that by keeping pressure on Kiev, the Soviets will deploy mostly there, leaving the Cherkassy crossing a bit easier.

The major axis of advance will be to Tarnapol, Proskurov, Vinnitsa, and Cherkassy, then curling north to Kiev. There are fairly direct rail lines through here, so this will keep my supply going as well as possible.

The order of battle (OOB) in this scenario is a bit complicated with so many nationalities, but the basics are simple. The 1st Panzer Group is the only one, so this is the spearhead. The 6th and 17th Armies create breakthroughs for it to exploit and its north and south flanks. The 11th Army works its way from Romania to Odessa.

NOOB ADVICE: Avoiding fighting with panzers as much as possible. Reserve them for exploiting breakthroughs. Use infantry to create the holes in enemy lines that the panzers will move through.
The scenario is 10 turns, so I give myself a rough timeline. Knowing that things will slow down as I get deeper into the Ukraine, I plan to take Vinnitsa in the first 3 turns, give myself 4 more to cross the Dnepr and the last 3 to isolate and take Kiev. Sounds easy.

NOOB ADVICE: If you are Germany, always be sure to bomb enemy airfields at the beginning of the first turn when they are unsuspecting. You will be glad you did.

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/8/2011 11:59:46 PM

penlin

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Turn 3

The first two turns are pretty smooth, and the 1st Panzer Group is on schedule heading towards Vinnitsa. I have to start thinking about the Russian units on the long north and south flanks. The south flank is easier. There are not so many Russian units, so they are easier to pocket. Also, once the Romanian armies activate, I send one of them from the south to link up with my main advance, creating a very large pocket in the Carpathians.

More worrisome is the north flank, where there are more and stronger Russian units. At the start of turn 3, I face a choice between using some panzers to strike north and create a pocket or simply continuing forward. I think hard about doing the pocket. I want to eliminate Russian units while I can. Otherwise, they will withdraw, and I will have to fight them in front of Kiev. Also, the panzers are some distance ahead of the infantry, so a short halt to the advance would let the infantry catch up.

On the other hand, the Russian units are strong, with defensive combat values (CVs) of 5 to 8, and there is no clear weak point. Also, creating a pocket might require slogging through the Pripyet marshes to the north � not appealing. Lastly, my timeline is to get to Vinnitsa next turn, and I need to be disciplined if I�m going to have time to deal with Kiev.

In the end, I continue the advance towards Vinnitsa. On the following turn, the Soviet units indeed withdraw to fight another day.

NOOB ADVICE: For maximum resupply and combat effectiveness, keep your HQ units close (usually 5 hexes) to their subordinate combat units. This should be true at the end of your turn (for resupply) and also when attacking (to commit support units automatically).

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/9/2011 12:01:18 AM

penlin

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Turn 5

Aerial reconnaissance at the beginning of turn 5 shows that the Russians have formed a second defensive line between Vinnitsa and Cherkassy. This reminds me of the Smolensk scenario I played earlier and how the German advance tends to bog down. I consider when and how to break through.

My first hunch is to do a double pincers (yellow arrows) to create a big pocket, eliminate the units, punching a hole in the lines. I picked those locations because the Russian line is not so deep there. At the same time, there are several panzer divisions around the purple arrow. The Russian line is 4-5 units deep there, but they look weak. I will try a probling attack there and see how it goes.

The next question is when. The infantry is now further behind the panzers, and I don�t want to make the panzers do the hard work of breaking a significant line. It might make sense to use this turn to rest the panzers (although they�re still in pretty good shape) and concentrate several Corps from the 6th and 17th Armies at the yellow arrows.

Nevertheless, I decide to try at least the probing attacks (purple arrow) this turn. I don�t want the line to stiffen, and I�m still concerned about the timeline. Also, the leading infantry divisions are close enough that they can approach the line, make a few initial attacks and minimize the fighting that the panzers have to do. This turns out to be a good decision.

NOOB ADVICE: Try to move your units �from back to front�. That is, move the furthest back units first up to the line where they can attack. Then your forward units don�t have to do as much work and can push forward. For Germany, keeping up the momentum is helpful. This is especially true of the infantry, who are hard pressed to keep up with the panzers.

NOOB ADVICE: There are a large number of air missions that have to be done at the start of your turn. These include dropping supplies as well as bombing enemy units, cities, and airfields. Deciding what to do with your air forces should be the first thing you do on any turn.

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/9/2011 12:02:50 AM

penlin

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Turn 5: Results

Here is the situation at the end of the same turn. You can see that a couple divisions from the 17th Army (light red) made it forward to start the probing attacks. I even brought up some force from the 11th Army (in blue) that started in Romania to help. This is enough. The panzer divisions don�t have to do anything terrible, mostly weak Russian units with CV of 1=1.

This leaves a significant pocket of Soviet divisions just northeast of the Vuzhny Bug river. The southern tip of the main line withdraws on the next turn, more or less abandoning their comrades in the pocket. The pocket doesn�t hold perfectly this turn. One or two enemy units are able to squeak across the two hexes to avoid isolation.

It doesn�t matter. They are dangling by a thread, and it�s easier to create a stronger pocket the following turn. I avoid attacking anything strong in the pocket this turn, since it�s better to wait until they are truly isolated, so I can eliminate the units altogether. It doesn�t even slow down the advance much. I use some of the weaker Romanian units to hold the west side of the pocket, so I can keep the stronger infantry divisions from the 17th Army (light red) moving forward.

Notice that the Soviets have little or nothing on the Dnepr River near Cherkassy. Nor do they have significant force between my lead panzer divisions and Cherkassy. By the end of the following turn, I have a full Panzer Corps in Cherkassy. They face a single weak unit on the other side of the Dnepr, which will not trouble them. Better yet, two motorized infantry divisions were able to cross the Dnepr unopposed a little to the north. I managed to avoid significant fighting at the Dnepr, which was a major goal.

NOOB ADVICE: At the start of your turn, drop fuel and/or supplies to the leading panzer units so they can stay effective. This can be done by selecting F9 (keyboard or menu near top). Right-click on the receiving unit for an auto drop. Or, more usefully, shift-right-click to get some options about whether to drop fuel or supplies and how many aircraft to commit.

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< Message edited by penlin -- 5/11/2011 12:52:59 PM >

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/9/2011 12:04:08 AM

penlin

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Turn 8

The last few turns see the encirclement of Kiev and the destruction of Soviet forces in the pocket. Here is the situation at the end of turn 8. Notice that my main line southwest of Kiev is only lightly held, mostly with regimental-sized units. This was a little tenuous. The Russians tried to break out to the west, a strange direction to break out, but this made me nervous since I had my airbases and some HQ units in that direction.

The main forces of the 6th Army (light purple) are divided into two pincers to get around Kiev. The south pincer is deliberately stronger since there is little opposition and I have a river crossing to exploit. The north pincer is largely to pin down forces. The 1st Panzer Group joins the south pincer. Their rapid movement completes the encirclement, more or less, at the end of this turn. The SS unit (in black) to the northwest of Kiev has actually gone full circle around Kiev, having crossed near Cherkassy earlier.

NOOB ADVICE: Use the �HQ Buildup� feature, but do so judiciously. It maximizes a corps movement points on the following turn. It can only be performed on an HQ that has not moved this turn and will only help nearby (5 hexes usually) subordinate units. A good use is when a panzer corps is already too far ahead and cannot move much anyway. Doing so helped get my panzer corps around Kiev this turn. Note that there are other penalties for using HQ Buildup that make it less appealing in longer, campaign scenarios.

This preliminary encirclement doesn�t quite hold perfectly. There is a bit of gap in the northeast (see arrow), where a Russian tank division is able to break the isolation. So, turn 9 is mostly spent shoring up the encirclement. I only attack weak units in turn 9, preferring to wait to turn 10, when units are isolated to attack and eliminate the bulk of the Russian forces.

In the meantime, the 17th Army (light red) and 11th Army (blue) are able to take Odessa and most of the other VP locations.

NOOB ADVICE: Don�t be afraid to leave some parts of your line weak (e.g. west of Kiev here) so that the main forces can break through and encircle. I assume you have to be more careful about this against a human opponent!

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/9/2011 12:05:04 AM

penlin

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Decisive Victory!

Everything turned out much better than expected. I earned a Decisive Victory with a VP ratio of 5.8 to 1. I captured everything except Nikolaev, and I was close to that. Soviet losses were 760,000 men to my 100,000 and 3000 planes to my 300. Fifty seven Russian divisions were eliminated.

After the frustration of Smolensk, this was a very satisfying scenario. Aside from the multi-national OOB, I think this is a better beginner scenario than Smolensk. There were some tense moments when I considered whether it was prudent to continue pushing, but aggressive play paid off here. Crossing the Dnepr at Cherkassy worked great. I love it when a plan comes together!

Key lessons, at least for this scenario, is that it makes sense to keep pushing if it prevents the Russians from digging in. Focus on pocketing units that are in the direct path of your advance. Too much effort on the flanks might slow you down too much.

A pocket doesn�t have to be perfect the first turn, and spending three turns on a pocket is not the end of the world. First turn: accomplish a preliminary, if leaky, encirclement. Second turn: fully isolate the units. Third turn: eliminate isolated units. It seems that this could slow you down too much, but it seems ok if you keep all your forces, especially infantry, moving forward: infantry west of pocket relieves infantry holding west line of pocket, these move around to back side of pocket, and panzers in rear keep pushing forward.

Postscript: I am now halfway through the Moscow scenario, which seems harder. My panzers are at the ragged edge of the supply range, and it seems I might need to rest and regroup a turn or two before the final push to Moscow.

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/9/2011 3:27:08 AM

Mynok

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Nicely done! Good noob advice, too.

I do have to ask: to me 6th army is light purple and 17th is a light red. Color blindness for someone? Me?

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/11/2011 12:55:53 PM

penlin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
I do have to ask: to me 6th army is light purple and 17th is a light red. Color blindness for someone? Me?

You caught me! I am mildly color-blind. Mildly enough to fake it enough of the time and then be surprised when it gets me. I'll take your word for it on the colors, so I edited the above. Hopefully, that clarifies things - for everyone else, at least.

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/11/2011 5:01:08 PM

Tarhunnas

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Nice AAR and good advice! That should be very useful for beginners!

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/11/2011 5:05:07 PM

Speedysteve

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From: Reading, England
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Agreed. Well done and well written with some useful advice to NOOB's

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/11/2011 6:05:06 PM

Mynok

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quote:

ORIGINAL: penlin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
I do have to ask: to me 6th army is light purple and 17th is a light red. Color blindness for someone? Me?

You caught me! I am mildly color-blind. Mildly enough to fake it enough of the time and then be surprised when it gets me. I'll take your word for it on the colors, so I edited the above. Hopefully, that clarifies things - for everyone else, at least.

As long as you can tell them apart, what color they are doesn't really matter. I was just curious if I had another ailment to go with my astigmatism and far-sightedness.

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/13/2011 5:29:41 PM

coolts

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From: Auf Wiedersehen, Pet
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Quick question. It looks like you have avoided the mistake i've made twice in this scenario. I tend to get the 17th bogged down around the carpathians clearing out russians in the mountains. What were you doing in the south? Did you abandon the Odessa front and concentrate everything on Kiev?

When i get to Kiev (around turn 6-7), there is a sea of Russian units there, (1.04).

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RE: Kiev: A Noob's Perspective - 5/13/2011 6:25:51 PM

penlin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: coolts

Quick question. It looks like you have avoided the mistake i've made twice in this scenario. I tend to get the 17th bogged down around the carpathians clearing out russians in the mountains. What were you doing in the south? Did you abandon the Odessa front and concentrate everything on Kiev?

When i get to Kiev (around turn 6-7), there is a sea of Russian units there, (1.04).

The 17th Army remained pretty focused on Kiev overall, moving along with the 6th Army and the 1st Panzer Group in that direction. I did leave behind 1-2 corps of the 17th Army to deal with units in the Carpathians, so that did slow their progress some. I tried to use the bare minimum of units around the Carpathians figuring it's fine if it takes a bit longer to liquidate the units there. It's probably more important to keep as many forces moving forward as possible. Another thing that helped is that I used a Romanian corps (or maybe an army) from the south to help out. There are some mobile forces down there that struck north the first turn they were unfrozen. This let me isolate everything in the Carpathians in one giant pocket. Then, it is not too hard for 1-2 corps to chew threw the remaining isolated units.

Towards the end, there were a lot of units in and around Kiev. However, once they are encircled, they are pretty easy to kill off. Near the end (turn 8?), it was clear to me that 6th Army and 1st Panzer Group could finish off Kiev by themselves. So, late in the scenario, I diverted the 17th Army to deal with some minor nearby VP locations between Kiev and Odessa.

Definitely, I kept the focus on Kiev. The only forces really targeting Odessa were the 11th Army and other stuff coming from Romania. Even some of those spent some time further north helping the main advance on Kiev. You should see some of them in the screenshots where we are breaking through the second line.

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