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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/13/2011 11:50:00 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Watching Alien with the DU. (Is there only one alien in it?)

Nein. There's the face sucker, the chest exploder and at least one adult / gravid female phase.

That makes three, not nein.

chest exploder and the adult are the same beastie in different phases...

In the movie, does the exploder unit become the adult? We see an adult in the movie-it's not the same organism (all growed up) as the exploder or face sucker, right?

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Post #: 19321

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/13/2011 11:53:31 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
A yacht club? In Fort Worth? It's fracking light years from the ocean!

Well duh, brush head, Eagle Mountain Lake, Lake Ray Hubbard, Lake Travis, down by Austin. Just where the heck you think all those Olympic Champions come from any way? New Ferkin Jersy?

Don't forget about Texoma or Texarkana. The latter had some mighty fine bass fishing.

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Post #: 19322

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/13/2011 11:53:56 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Ooh...a chest exploder UNP!

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Post #: 19323

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/13/2011 11:59:13 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Watching Alien with the DU. (Is there only one alien in it?)

Nein. There's the face sucker, the chest exploder and at least one adult / gravid female phase.

That makes three, not nein.

chest exploder and the adult are the same beastie in different phases...

In the movie, does the exploder unit become the adult? We see an adult in the movie-it's not the same organism (all growed up) as the exploder or face sucker, right?

Iirc, it (the chest exploder) does become an adult... it gets out of the mess hall and starts eating stuff, then moves onto eating people.

The face hugger comes out of one of the eggs (so there are lots of other ones around, but not seen directly)... it shoves the embryo chest exploder down the throat and keeps it alive (while keeping the humans from removing it and/or the embryo chest exploder).

And here i thought you were an expert in parasitology!!

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Post #: 19324

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:03:42 AM

JWE

Posts: 6580
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
A yacht club? In Fort Worth? It's fracking light years from the ocean!

Well duh, brush head, Eagle Mountain Lake, Lake Ray Hubbard, Lake Travis, down by Austin. Just where the heck you think all those Olympic Champions come from any way? New Ferkin Jersy?

[ed] good food from TX. Nice BBQ, and good crappies.

< Message edited by JWE -- 5/14/2011 12:04:12 AM >

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Post #: 19325

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:07:18 AM

Terminus

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I believe the face hugger's only function is to deposit the egg inside the host and keep it from being removed until it's sufficiently advanced in growth. Then it falls off and dies.

By my count, Alien had two xenomorphs, the face hugger and the chest burster, the latter subsequently growing into the adult stage.

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Post #: 19326

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:08:16 AM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Tithe...

Spoke to my boss's boss today. She called me into her office to explain that even though she was responsible for my sacking, she was "sorry", my work had been "excellent", and I would be given glowing references. Whoop-di-doo.

You mean called you in as in you had to schlep into the office just to hear that? She couldn't tell you when they sacked you? Or call you on the telephone?

Grand, isn't it? A lousy end to what's been, on the whole, a good job.

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Post #: 19327

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:09:41 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Watching Alien with the DU. (Is there only one alien in it?)

Nein. There's the face sucker, the chest exploder and at least one adult / gravid female phase.

That makes three, not nein.

chest exploder and the adult are the same beastie in different phases...

In the movie, does the exploder unit become the adult? We see an adult in the movie-it's not the same organism (all growed up) as the exploder or face sucker, right?

Iirc, it (the chest exploder) does become an adult... it gets out of the mess hall and starts eating stuff, then moves onto eating people.

The face hugger comes out of one of the eggs (so there are lots of other ones around, but not seen directly)... it shoves the embryo chest exploder down the throat and keeps it alive (while keeping the humans from removing it and/or the embryo chest exploder).

And here i thought you were an expert in parasitology!!

(sigh...) Physicians...

If you follow the origin of the thread on this issue, you'll find my response is correct. There are a multitude of aliens in the movie, not just one in different phases. I'm counting those eggs (1-1000), face sucker (1001), chest exploder (1002) and adult (assuming that it's around as an adult and not a growed up chest exploder =1003).

So, to rehash Sprior's original question (and my original answer)-YES, there is more than one alien in the movie.

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Post #: 19328

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:12:48 AM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I believe the face hugger's only function is to deposit the egg inside the host and keep it from being removed until it's sufficiently advanced in growth. Then it falls off and dies.

By my count, Alien had two xenomorphs, the face hugger and the chest burster, the latter subsequently growing into the adult stage.

Not sure how the eggs are counted (as prehatched face-huggers, i would guess).

There was also the dead alien sitting in his "command chair" - the one who sent the warning that sucked in Nostromo to investigate.

i think Chickenboy might be confusing his face-huggers from the original movie with "Aliens" - where several face-huggers got wasted... of course, there were lots of larger types running loose there, and crawling, etc...

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Post #: 19329

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:15:05 AM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Watching Alien with the DU. (Is there only one alien in it?)

Nein. There's the face sucker, the chest exploder and at least one adult / gravid female phase.

That makes three, not nein.

chest exploder and the adult are the same beastie in different phases...

In the movie, does the exploder unit become the adult? We see an adult in the movie-it's not the same organism (all growed up) as the exploder or face sucker, right?

Iirc, it (the chest exploder) does become an adult... it gets out of the mess hall and starts eating stuff, then moves onto eating people.

The face hugger comes out of one of the eggs (so there are lots of other ones around, but not seen directly)... it shoves the embryo chest exploder down the throat and keeps it alive (while keeping the humans from removing it and/or the embryo chest exploder).

And here i thought you were an expert in parasitology!!

(sigh...) Physicians...

If you follow the origin of the thread on this issue, you'll find my response is correct. There are a multitude of aliens in the movie, not just one in different phases. I'm counting those eggs (1-1000), face sucker (1001), chest exploder (1002) and adult (assuming that it's around as an adult and not a growed up chest exploder =1003).

So, to rehash Sprior's original question (and my original answer)-YES, there is more than one alien in the movie.

i was responding to THIS statement:

quote:

We see an adult in the movie-it's not the same organism (all growed up) as the exploder or face sucker, right?

And yes, it IS the same organism as the exploder (but not the face sucker).

EDIT: This assumes, of course, that the face-hugger and exploder are two different organisms... it could be they are part of the same being, with the face-hugger part being sort of a "placental" attachment that is shed from the embryo once it is ready to leave the host... alas, they failed to provide DNA analysis of the different parts (assuming it actually has DNA).

RE-EDIT: How's THAT for geeky??

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 5/14/2011 12:19:25 AM >

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Post #: 19330

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:52:56 AM

rtrapasso

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Joined: 9/3/2002
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This one would have been more appropriate last week, but i guess some of you can use it as you celebrate this holiday at the end of the month...

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 1:02:07 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

I think the confusion here may be one's definition of 'organism'. If you refer to the organism as the species then there's only one (non-human; non-felid) species in the movie-the Alien. If you are referring to 'organism' as individuals (my useage), then there's a multitude of organisms in Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and (I assume-haven't seen it) Alien 4.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 5/14/2011 2:08:51 AM >

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Post #: 19332

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 2:18:41 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
EDIT: This assumes, of course, that the face-hugger and exploder are two different organisms... it could be they are part of the same being, with the face-hugger part being sort of a "placental" attachment that is shed from the embryo once it is ready to leave the host... alas, they failed to provide DNA analysis of the different parts (assuming it actually has DNA).

RE-EDIT: How's THAT for geeky??

Placental? How mammalocentric of you.

There's lots better examples than that clunky mammalian placenta out there to choose from.

More likely would be some sort of asexual autofertility (think bee workers) or other asexual reproductive cycle. Even if it were an example of binary fission or other asexual reproductive life cycle, the new form would be considered a different organism once it left the host. A completely different organism that was indistinguishable from its progenitor by genetic analysis.

Your DNA analysis would be unable to differentiate such a spawned lifeform from the placental attachment theory you espouse above-both would have identical DNA to the 'parent' or 'placenta' that you mention. Assuming, of course, it has DNA.

For myself, I would venture that Alien has SNA (sulfuric nucleic acid).

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Post #: 19333

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 2:28:35 AM

Reg

Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

EDIT: This assumes, of course, that the face-hugger and exploder are two different organisms... it could be they are part of the same being, with the face-hugger part being sort of a "placental" attachment that is shed from the embryo once it is ready to leave the host... alas, they failed to provide DNA analysis of the different parts (assuming it actually has DNA).

RE-EDIT: How's THAT for geeky??

I think you will find explained in Alien 3 that the exploder/adult picks up characteristics from its host - ie the dog exploder was a very different organism to the human gestated Alien...

That would make categorising it's DNA a very difficult task - talk about rapid evolution!!

If it was real that is!!

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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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Post #: 19334

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 2:43:22 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

The comparative cute and small chest burster is apparently just a little version of a full-sized adult. It grows to that size in a matter of hours post-bursting.

I'm more concerned about it's apparent small feed conversion ratio. Even if we assumed that it ate the entire thoracic cavity of an adult male (say about 70 lbs. worth of vittles), it somehow manages to grow into something hominid-sized or larger with just that one full meal. It's mass has got to be at least that of a full adult male, therefore, we have an inexplicable FCR of less than 0.5:1 . Namely, for every pound of gain, it eats 0.5 lbs. (or less) of something else.

Sulfuric acid blood? Eats people? Chest burster little 'uns? Doesn't need much to grow lots? Grows to full size in hours? Big sharp pointy teeth (makes chomping teeth motion with hands)? Ick. I'm startin' to get fidgety just thinking about another species like that in the same solar system.

ETA: Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...

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Post #: 19335

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 3:20:30 AM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline

Oooh! Alien spat!

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Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 19336

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 3:22:29 AM

USSAmerica

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From: Graham, NC, USA
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I'm hungry at 2230 hours. That's why I have so much extra weight to lose. Time to go raid the fridge.

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Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 19337

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 3:52:27 AM

Mynok

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Joined: 11/30/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
A yacht club? In Fort Worth? It's fracking light years from the ocean!

Well duh, brush head, Eagle Mountain Lake, Lake Ray Hubbard, Lake Travis, down by Austin. Just where the heck you think all those Olympic Champions come from any way? New Ferkin Jersy?

The ocean, bro, the ocean. How can you develop a yacht on a freakin lake?!!?

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Post #: 19338

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 3:56:42 AM

Mynok

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Oooh!� Alien spat! �

Watch your tongue biped. We rule you whether you like it or not.

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Post #: 19339

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 4:02:09 AM

USSAmerica

Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Oooh!� Alien spat! �

Watch your tongue biped. We rule you whether you like it or not.

How about a demonstration of your strategic might in the form of a turn?

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me

Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 19340

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 9:55:41 AM

Grollub

Posts: 6674
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From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline

Good morning friends.

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Post #: 19341

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 10:08:02 AM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The comparative cute and small chest burster is apparently just a little version of a full-sized adult. It grows to that size in a matter of hours post-bursting.

I'm more concerned about it's apparent small feed conversion ratio. Even if we assumed that it ate the entire thoracic cavity of an adult male (say about 70 lbs. worth of vittles), it somehow manages to grow into something hominid-sized or larger with just that one full meal. It's mass has got to be at least that of a full adult male, therefore, we have an inexplicable FCR of less than 0.5:1 . Namely, for every pound of gain, it eats 0.5 lbs. (or less) of something else.

Sulfuric acid blood? Eats people? Chest burster little 'uns? Doesn't need much to grow lots? Grows to full size in hours? Big sharp pointy teeth (makes chomping teeth motion with hands)? Ick. I'm startin' to get fidgety just thinking about another species like that in the same solar system.

ETA: Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...

I picked up a cheap copy of the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual a few years back. There's some discussion from a group of scientists in one section as to the life cycle of the Alien. Interesting in a sciencey-film geek sort of way

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Post #: 19342

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 10:12:37 AM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Watching Alien with the DU. (Is there only one alien in it?)

Nein. There's the face sucker, the chest exploder and at least one adult / gravid female phase.

That makes three, not nein.

chest exploder and the adult are the same beastie in different phases...

In the movie, does the exploder unit become the adult? We see an adult in the movie-it's not the same organism (all growed up) as the exploder or face sucker, right?

Iirc, it (the chest exploder) does become an adult... it gets out of the mess hall and starts eating stuff, then moves onto eating people.

The face hugger comes out of one of the eggs (so there are lots of other ones around, but not seen directly)... it shoves the embryo chest exploder down the throat and keeps it alive (while keeping the humans from removing it and/or the embryo chest exploder).

And here i thought you were an expert in parasitology!!

(sigh...) Physicians...

If you follow the origin of the thread on this issue, you'll find my response is correct. There are a multitude of aliens in the movie, not just one in different phases. I'm counting those eggs (1-1000), face sucker (1001), chest exploder (1002) and adult (assuming that it's around as an adult and not a growed up chest exploder =1003).

So, to rehash Sprior's original question (and my original answer)-YES, there is more than one alien in the movie.

Of course, you could argue that as none of the species featured in the film are native to the planet LV-426 that there are the eggs, the face-hugger, the xenomorph (+chest burster), Ripley, Dallas, Kane, Lambert, Parker, Brett and Jonesy.

But that's just being pedantic

< Message edited by Dixie -- 5/14/2011 10:13:00 AM >

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Post #: 19343

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 10:23:45 AM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The comparative cute and small chest burster is apparently just a little version of a full-sized adult. It grows to that size in a matter of hours post-bursting.

I'm more concerned about it's apparent small feed conversion ratio. Even if we assumed that it ate the entire thoracic cavity of an adult male (say about 70 lbs. worth of vittles), it somehow manages to grow into something hominid-sized or larger with just that one full meal. It's mass has got to be at least that of a full adult male, therefore, we have an inexplicable FCR of less than 0.5:1 . Namely, for every pound of gain, it eats 0.5 lbs. (or less) of something else.

Sulfuric acid blood? Eats people? Chest burster little 'uns? Doesn't need much to grow lots? Grows to full size in hours? Big sharp pointy teeth (makes chomping teeth motion with hands)? Ick. I'm startin' to get fidgety just thinking about another species like that in the same solar system.

ETA: Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...

I picked up a cheap copy of the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual a few years back. There's some discussion from a group of scientists in one section as to the life cycle of the Alien. Interesting in a sciencey-film geek sort of way

I have that one too. Very good book, actually.

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Post #: 19344

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 12:57:03 PM

Grollub

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From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline

Off to a gaming/dinner evening.

Laters.

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Post #: 19345

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 1:40:03 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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OK - it seems some hijacked (hopefully temporarily) my gmail account.

i have deleted all the contacts in my gmail account, changed password, etc. Not sure how this happened... scans on my computer have come up negative so far... i suppose it could be on my computer at work (despite the IT department there - the network security in the past has been pretty porous)... i will be taking additional precautions today.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 1:53:05 PM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
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From: UK
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Hopefully you'll be all sorted now then.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 1:59:28 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

It LOOKS like gmail actually picked up on it pretty quickly*... they temporarily suspended my account and blocked a lot of the spam messages from going out.

Anyway - i always try to put something in the subject line... all of these things had blank subject lines... so if you get messages with blank subject lines - be on the lookout.

EDIT: According to the time stamps, they started blocking messages within 6 minutes of the first one going out, and blocked most of them... only about "5 mass mailings" messages went out, and gmail blocked 3 of them (i think). They probably did this by the "unusual activity" of me mass mailing stuff, and it also generated a lot of "bounced" messages from defunct email acounts just on those two first messages. Kudos to gmail for quick action!!

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 5/14/2011 2:19:02 PM >

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Post #: 19348

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 2:25:05 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The comparative cute and small chest burster is apparently just a little version of a full-sized adult. It grows to that size in a matter of hours post-bursting.

I'm more concerned about it's apparent small feed conversion ratio. Even if we assumed that it ate the entire thoracic cavity of an adult male (say about 70 lbs. worth of vittles), it somehow manages to grow into something hominid-sized or larger with just that one full meal. It's mass has got to be at least that of a full adult male, therefore, we have an inexplicable FCR of less than 0.5:1 . Namely, for every pound of gain, it eats 0.5 lbs. (or less) of something else.

Sulfuric acid blood? Eats people? Chest burster little 'uns? Doesn't need much to grow lots? Grows to full size in hours? Big sharp pointy teeth (makes chomping teeth motion with hands)? Ick. I'm startin' to get fidgety just thinking about another species like that in the same solar system.

ETA: Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...

iirc, from the movie, it was found to be eating supplies, so it probably didn't violate "preservation of mass"... and (iirc) it had "molecular acid" for blood... no currently known acid wouldn't do anything like that alien blood did.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 19349

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 5/14/2011 2:26:19 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Watching Alien with the DU. (Is there only one alien in it?)

Nein. There's the face sucker, the chest exploder and at least one adult / gravid female phase.

That makes three, not nein.

chest exploder and the adult are the same beastie in different phases...

In the movie, does the exploder unit become the adult? We see an adult in the movie-it's not the same organism (all growed up) as the exploder or face sucker, right?

Iirc, it (the chest exploder) does become an adult... it gets out of the mess hall and starts eating stuff, then moves onto eating people.

The face hugger comes out of one of the eggs (so there are lots of other ones around, but not seen directly)... it shoves the embryo chest exploder down the throat and keeps it alive (while keeping the humans from removing it and/or the embryo chest exploder).

And here i thought you were an expert in parasitology!!

(sigh...) Physicians...

If you follow the origin of the thread on this issue, you'll find my response is correct. There are a multitude of aliens in the movie, not just one in different phases. I'm counting those eggs (1-1000), face sucker (1001), chest exploder (1002) and adult (assuming that it's around as an adult and not a growed up chest exploder =1003).

So, to rehash Sprior's original question (and my original answer)-YES, there is more than one alien in the movie.

Of course, you could argue that as none of the species featured in the film are native to the planet LV-426 that there are the eggs, the face-hugger, the xenomorph (+chest burster), Ripley, Dallas, Kane, Lambert, Parker, Brett and Jonesy.

But that's just being pedantic