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AT Guns not towable ??

 
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AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 5:58:16 PM   
PDiFolco

 

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Status: offline 		Hi
Just started a random campaign, I end up with German 1st ID ("Big Black One" lol?), which has some light AT guns (37mm), and Opel Blitz trucks, at start of Barbarossa.
I setup my ATGs near the trucks, they won't be much useful if they can't move, I'm supposed to attack. But no "Load/embark" orders appear for the guns...
Bug or working as (badly) designed ? I'm pretty sure those Paks were towable by Blitzes..
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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:00:19 PM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		As designed. Drives us nuts but can't be fixed until the next game. Field guns however can be pushed around with the move command.

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:14:10 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

As designed. Drives us nuts but can't be fixed until the next game. Field guns however can be pushed around with the move command.


Well that's the first #$%##$$ design decision I've ever seen. Can't tow field guns with anything?

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:17:29 PM   
junk2drive


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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:19:58 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
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Status: offline 		Huh, disappointing, for such a serious game ... My guns will be pretty useless in addition !

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:23:34 PM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		It was worse before the setup zones were added.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:25:17 PM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		OTOH in CMx1 I was never able to get guns into position before the transport blew up anyway.

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:27:11 PM   
diablo1

 

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Status: offline 		That means one might as well not even pick field guns and put those points into offboard artillery or planes unless on defense. Really? I can't believe this is WAD. Oh well I got this for free so I'm stuck with what I got. Hopefully this will definitely be fixed in the next version and RETRO FIXED in this version. I'm afraid this won't bode well for sales once word gets out.

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:30:04 PM   
junk2drive


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Status: offline 		It's not a game breaker. You can place them in setup. Or the scenario designer places them in good spots.

It is also one of those things that get explained away as not fitting into the time frame of the battles. How long did it take to unlimber a gun and set it up for use?

Edit: Its been like this since OWS.

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:32:16 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Diablo1,

This has been the case since Winterstorm and discussed with each release. It was a stupid design decision, no argument about that, it's just that it will take a lot of work to undo and that is planned for the next release as it was not one of our highest priorities. It means that field guns are still quite useful on defense, but quite limited on offense. Note that infantry guns and mortars can still move, but AT guns and larger field guns cannot. It's true that in the context of the time scale of most scenarios, redeploying field guns is pointless anyway, but it's still an ability that should be in there and will be in the future.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:47:56 PM   
diablo1

 

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Status: offline 		Ok I gotta ask this now. In Cmx1 the time scale is the same as in PC:all games so what is this not within the limits of the time scale when a minute of time is a minute of time in both games? Are you saying the minute of time in CMx1 was/is slower than a minute of time in PC:all games?

What does a minute of "game time" in PC:O represent?

< Message edited by diablo1 -- 5/14/2011 6:48:17 PM >

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 6:52:48 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
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From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Digging foxholes when the game is in play is not in the timeframe. Doing it in setup as in they dug the holes before the battle is fine. Same with limbering and unlimbering guns.

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 7:26:54 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
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From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		Well, we all agree guns should be towable, so sooner or later it will be done. Another thing for the to-do-list. Personally I only use them in defensive actions anyway. Same as in CMBB. 

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 9:02:39 PM   
Mobius


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Status: offline 		Help me! I'm being repressed.

Guns light enough to be man-handled aren't usually large enough to be that effective.




Attachment (1)

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 9:24:38 PM   
PDiFolco

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

It's not a game breaker. You can place them in setup. Or the scenario designer places them in good spots.

It is also one of those things that get explained away as not fitting into the time frame of the battles. How long did it take to unlimber a gun and set it up for use?

Edit: Its been like this since OWS.


Smaller ATGs were relatively light, the Pak36 weighted 400kg. Setup was a matter of minutes.
Sure they were not powerful, but they worked against BT-7 and such in 41.
Light field guns, like 75mm, took more time, but could be unlimbered in the game timeframe.
Lastly, I agree it's not a game breaker, but it's surprising to see it has been left completely off the design.
No luck, the only moment it can make a difference is just in the kind of scenario I'm playing : '41 assault by infantry with no armor support...

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 9:38:05 PM   
Mad Russian


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Status: offline 		What scenario are you playing?

Don't you owe me turns?

Good Hunting.

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/14/2011 9:58:52 PM   
Mad Russian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

That means one might as well not even pick field guns and put those points into offboard artillery or planes unless on defense. Really? I can't believe this is WAD. Oh well I got this for free so I'm stuck with what I got. Hopefully this will definitely be fixed in the next version and RETRO FIXED in this version. I'm afraid this won't bode well for sales once word gets out.



The reality of towing guns is that there will be a several turn delay in setting one up.

There are guns that would take as long as 20 minutes to set up if they started towed.

While this absolutely needs to be included it's not something, that if it's done right, most gamers will worry about because it will take them from 1/2 to 2/3 of the game to set it up from limber to begin with.

Before there were setup zones this was a real problem. The choice we were presented was to either add towed guns which most gamers wouldn't use all that often or to fix the setup zones which everybody will use in every game they play.

The choice was actually easy to make. If I presented that choice to you, and you could only make ONE and not have the time or resources to do both, I feel safe in thinking which choice you would make as well.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 5/14/2011 10:00:03 PM >

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Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/15/2011 11:54:54 AM   
PDiFolco

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

What scenario are you playing?

Don't you owe me turns?

Good Hunting.

MR


Me ? The first scenario of a Random 1st Inf Dev campaign. I got plenty of useless Pak36 and 75mm Inf Guns ..

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/15/2011 1:28:48 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		FNG is having a tough time with Soviet guns in his campaign. A lot depends on if you are on attack or defend. We agree that the ability should be there. But it is less important the more you play the game and get comfortable with it.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/15/2011 2:29:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
Me ? The first scenario of a Random 1st Inf Dev campaign. I got plenty of useless Pak36 and 75mm Inf Guns ..


The 75 IGs at least can move on their own, even though they can't be towed. Perhaps we should do the same for the 37mm ATGs until we get the ability to tow into the game.

Regards,

- Erik


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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 20
RE: AT Guns not towable ?? - 5/15/2011 2:40:26 PM   
sztartur2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
Me ? The first scenario of a Random 1st Inf Dev campaign. I got plenty of useless Pak36 and 75mm Inf Guns ..


The 75 IGs at least can move on their own, even though they can't be towed. Perhaps we should do the same for the 37mm ATGs until we get the ability to tow into the game.

Regards,

- Erik



Good idea.


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