Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

When does a battle end?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Panzer Command: Ostfront >> When does a battle end? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
When does a battle end? - 5/14/2011 3:55:36 PM   
sage

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline 		I couldn't find how to tell battle length in the manual, couldn't find it in the orders, and can't figure it out from anything on screen in the game. How do I know when it's supposed to end, and is it occasionally longer?
Post #: 1
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/14/2011 4:01:43 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		There are no turn limits in PCO. See the manual section 10 Victory conditions. It is based on killing the enemy and taking flags and getting to a high enough total before your opponent.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to sage)
Post #: 2
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/14/2011 4:02:55 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sage

I couldn't find how to tell battle length in the manual, couldn't find it in the orders, and can't figure it out from anything on screen in the game. How do I know when it's supposed to end, and is it occasionally longer?


There is generally no set length to scenarios. You can sometimes get a rough idea from the briefing, but even what's given there is usually a rough idea.

EDIT: I see that Paul is "fustest with the mostest" as usual!

Thanks
rick


< Message edited by Rick -- 5/14/2011 4:04:22 PM >

(in reply to sage)
Post #: 3
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/14/2011 4:05:22 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		In the game watch the Victory Level Gauges. They will show you how the battle is going and as they near the top you are getting closer to the battle ending. If the battle is going for or against you there maybe things you can do to influence how long it lasts.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 4
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/14/2011 6:52:30 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		In a random setup game does the ai determine the victory objectives or is it pure who eliminates more than the other?

_____________________________

X3:Universe of games rules them all!! Xtra coming soon X3:REBIRTH 4th qtr 2011 YAY!

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 5
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/14/2011 6:55:25 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Elimination. Designed scenarios can have a defender bonus with the amount of points per turn and on what turn it starts set by the designer.

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 5/14/2011 6:56:11 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 6
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/14/2011 7:54:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Well the objectives do matter though. You can win quite a few random battles by focusing on the objectives rather than fighting across the whole map.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 7
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 5:52:58 AM   
sage

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline 		Okay, there definitely is some kind of hard coded battle end. I was winning a random battle, 69% to 29%, and when I hit turn 60, it automatically gave the Soviets 100%, and handed a marginal lost to me. What did I miss?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 8
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 5:58:22 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Open the scenario in the scenario and template editor. There will be a box for defender bonus with a turn number and an amount of points. I'll guess that it is set for turn 60 and a ridiculous amount of points.

From the sounds of it you are not setting up the battles for you to have a chance at winning in a reasonable amount of turns.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to sage)
Post #: 9
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 6:59:44 AM   
sage

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Open the scenario in the scenario and template editor. There will be a box for defender bonus with a turn number and an amount of points. I'll guess that it is set for turn 60 and a ridiculous amount of points.

From the sounds of it you are not setting up the battles for you to have a chance at winning in a reasonable amount of turns.


It was a random campaign battle, and the description didn't say anything about a turn limit or points.

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 10
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 12:25:47 PM   
dazoline II


Posts: 400
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline 		I've been encountering this myself, and discussed a bit on other threads.

I have two ideas to reduce this:
1. Increase the objective flags via XML or scenario editor to around 750 points for all instead of the 150 or so you get as a default. I believe this will get you close or to a victory by fighting your way to the flags and collect points for enemy killed and the eventual large bonus for the flags themselves.

2. Decrease the points available to each side or just the AI via XML once the random scenarios for the random campaign have been built. Hunting down a couple battillions worth of rifle units on a 2x2 km map for me is VERY boring especially with 300mm rockets raining down what seems like every 5 turns as Art of War is always turned on for battles in random campaigns.

I think I'll put "add more out of the box control of random campaign scenarios" in the wish list. As I think this is the point of failure, editing all battle files post random campaign build is a PITA to say the least.

_____________________________

Moscow by winter? Only if you send Fast Heinz to Kiev.

(in reply to sage)
Post #: 11
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 12:38:28 PM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		I think how it works now is perfect. I hate to loose good battle just because of some set turn limit that is drawn from som donkey's ass. But of course you could always make it optional for those who like that sort of thing.

Better way to do scenarios is to actually implement what happens when turn limit is suppose to end i.e enemy gets increasingly more troops or victory points. It becomes more hard to win each turn. Its up to the player to decide whether to continue the battle or fall back.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 5/17/2011 12:49:24 PM >

_____________________________

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to dazoline II)
Post #: 12
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 1:29:46 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sage


quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Open the scenario in the scenario and template editor. There will be a box for defender bonus with a turn number and an amount of points. I'll guess that it is set for turn 60 and a ridiculous amount of points.

From the sounds of it you are not setting up the battles for you to have a chance at winning in a reasonable amount of turns.


It was a random campaign battle, and the description didn't say anything about a turn limit or points.


It should have. The RCG is designed to tell you if it adds any turn-based bonus points. There could certainly be a bug in how that briefing was generated though. If you can zip up the last save file before the battle ended and zip up all the @R*********.xml type scenario files in the data/scenarios folder, we can take a look and maybe even correct the save to let you complete that with a victory. Alternately, you can use the "skip" feature to continue the campaign while we investigate.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to sage)
Post #: 13
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 1:31:41 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dazoline II
1. Increase the objective flags via XML or scenario editor to around 750 points for all instead of the 150 or so you get as a default. I believe this will get you close or to a victory by fighting your way to the flags and collect points for enemy killed and the eventual large bonus for the flags themselves.

2. Decrease the points available to each side or just the AI via XML once the random scenarios for the random campaign have been built. Hunting down a couple battillions worth of rifle units on a 2x2 km map for me is VERY boring especially with 300mm rockets raining down what seems like every 5 turns as Art of War is always turned on for battles in random campaigns.


I think increasing the objective points could certainly address the second issue as well. It's a fine balance though as we want to give the AI the opportunity to counter-attack and avoid objective grabs that cannot be defended.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 5/17/2011 5:24:48 PM >

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to dazoline II)
Post #: 14
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 4:27:43 PM   
Commanderski


Posts: 927
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I think we just have to get used to the way this game works. It's not a game where you take the objectives and win. It's take the objectives and prepare for a counter attack, just like in the real world.

In the campaign I'm playing now I took all my objectives by turn 7, feeling good about that I thought the game would end on the next turn. It kept going to turn 17. There were numerous counter attacks. It's exciting and scary to see a squad of Soviets come charging out of the woods to attack one of your tanks that was facing the wrong direction. Fortunately I had another tank that was in the process of turning in that direction and was able to eliminate them, but it was close.

I really like the way this works.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 15
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 5:38:11 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Commanderski

I think we just have to get used to the way this game works. It's not a game where you take the objectives and win. It's take the objectives and prepare for a counter attack, just like in the real world.

In the campaign I'm playing now I took all my objectives by turn 7, feeling good about that I thought the game would end on the next turn. It kept going to turn 17. There were numerous counter attacks. It's exciting and scary to see a squad of Soviets come charging out of the woods to attack one of your tanks that was facing the wrong direction. Fortunately I had another tank that was in the process of turning in that direction and was able to eliminate them, but it was close.

I really like the way this works.


+1

(in reply to Commanderski)
Post #: 16
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 5:41:17 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		+1

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 17
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 6:34:20 PM   
sage

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline 		I do very much like the idea of a "floating" end, but I don't want to obscure the issue I had: I was winning by more than 2:1, when the game suddenly ended and handed me a loss with no warning or explanation. It gave the Russians a 100% to vicotry conditions, despite the fact that they had failed to hold one of two objectives, and taken massive cassualties.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 18
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 9:17:34 PM   
Commanderski


Posts: 927
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

do very much like the idea of a "floating" end, but I don't want to obscure the issue I had: I was winning by more than 2:1, when the game suddenly ended and handed me a loss with no warning or explanation. It gave the Russians a 100% to vicotry conditions, despite the fact that they had failed to hold one of two objectives, and taken massive cassualties.


There could be a good reason for that. Check to see what your objectives were, the Soviets could have launched a massive counter attack at the last minute.... If it was a random battle with no orders to look at, reload the last turn. the game autosaves the last turn and you can review the battlefield. It's also quite possible something buggy may have happened. If it looks that way then save a screenshot and post to the tech support. They would very definetly look into it for you.

(in reply to sage)
Post #: 19
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 9:41:07 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Sage,

Did you see my reply above?

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Commanderski)
Post #: 20
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/17/2011 10:21:43 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Okay. This has been an issue with other games I've done scenarios for.

In a tactical level engagement you would not know when the action would end. Not to the exact minute.

Most gamers that want a more realistic type of game don't want specific ending scenarios.

Most gamers that want a more controlled type of game do want specific ending scenarios.

IMO, the game should support both but I don't agree that the game tells the gamer exactly what second the game would end. No battlefield commander has that kind of information. Not in my scenarios. Should it be an option for the PC series? I think it should.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to sage)
Post #: 21
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/18/2011 5:40:04 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Open the scenario in the scenario and template editor. There will be a box for defender bonus with a turn number and an amount of points. I'll guess that it is set for turn 60 and a ridiculous amount of points ...


I recall reading that the tutorial scenario was not set to "force 60" assuming that "60" refers to 60 turns; perhaps this can be changed in the game options, even for random battles.

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to junk2drive)
Post #: 22
RE: When does a battle end? - 5/19/2011 12:27:35 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Force 60 refers to forcing the game to use a single 60 second phase. There are no turn limits that can be specifically set in PCO.

Good Hunting.

MR 

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 23
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Panzer Command: Ostfront >> When does a battle end? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.484