RE: Winter too weak now?

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RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/13/2011 9:28:49 PM

gids

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atm im playing A GC where during the blizzard of 1942 the german player is all out offensive,he already encircled like 9 to 10 divisions and corpses :p its like frigging summer 1941 all over,really fun lol,he did pull back alot of units over the border on germany and romania during 1941

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Post #: 31

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/16/2011 7:09:18 AM

Skanvak

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I just read the winter-clothing was prepared and order given by Hitler to distribute it in november 1941 but that the clothings reach Warsaw and stay their due to logistical problem (quote from Guderian in Panzer Leader). I wonder if this is modelized in the game? Of course clothing is not the only problem. When reading Guderian, it seems that everyone had prepared the clothing but they blundered in delivering them.

Any though (or I open a thread for that?).

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Post #: 32

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/16/2011 2:27:38 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gids

atm im playing A GC where during the blizzard of 1942 the german player is all out offensive,he already encircled like 9 to 10 divisions and corpses :p its like frigging summer 1941 all over,really fun lol,he did pull back alot of units over the border on germany and romania during 1941

But that is the second winter, the winter of 1942-43 right? There are no blizzard effects then (though I personally think there should be a slight negative effect on German attacks).

That is one of the things some people have brought up, it is a bit strange that the Germans have no problems maintaining an offensive during the worst months of winter, but mud will stop everything.

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Post #: 33

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/16/2011 4:46:33 PM

gids

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idd and i have to say i did attack him heavily in the summer which costed me ,my lines were understrenghts in the winter and way to stretched ,but still i did have a feeling like WTF :p

(in reply to Tarhunnas)

Post #: 34

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/18/2011 12:25:23 AM

Joel Billings

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From: Santa Rosa, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

quote:

ORIGINAL: gids

atm im playing A GC where during the blizzard of 1942 the german player is all out offensive,he already encircled like 9 to 10 divisions and corpses :p its like frigging summer 1941 all over,really fun lol,he did pull back alot of units over the border on germany and romania during 1941

But that is the second winter, the winter of 1942-43 right? There are no blizzard effects then (though I personally think there should be a slight negative effect on German attacks).

That is one of the things some people have brought up, it is a bit strange that the Germans have no problems maintaining an offensive during the worst months of winter, but mud will stop everything.

Well there are prices to be paid for Blizzard in terms of higher MP costs and thus less supply off rail.

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Post #: 35

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/18/2011 3:20:54 AM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
But that is the second winter, the winter of 1942-43 right? There are no blizzard effects then (though I personally think there should be a slight negative effect on German attacks).

That is one of the things some people have brought up, it is a bit strange that the Germans have no problems maintaining an offensive during the worst months of winter, but mud will stop everything.

You only need to look at what Manstein did to the Soviets in February/March 43 to know that they were well able to fight in the cold by then. Also, the Soviets failed in their Mars offensive in the north because it was no longer 1941. Winter was the same for both sides now. As for mud, it stopped everything for everyone. From Leningrad to the Caucasus. Good thing too for the Soviets. Because it prevented the Germans from eliminating the Kursk salient in March 43.

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Post #: 36

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/19/2011 5:40:31 PM

color

Posts: 324
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From: Oslo, Norway
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

I just read the winter-clothing was prepared and order given by Hitler to distribute it in november 1941 but that the clothings reach Warsaw and stay their due to logistical problem (quote from Guderian in Panzer Leader). I wonder if this is modelized in the game? Of course clothing is not the only problem. When reading Guderian, it seems that everyone had prepared the clothing but they blundered in delivering them.

Any though (or I open a thread for that?).

Noone blundered per se, more like **** hits the fan ... I suspect the major culprit for this were
a) advanced german locomotives with finer parts could not stand up to the harsh winter conditions in Russia - I had the numbers once, but not sure now, I think in the worst cases around only a 1/3 of the scheduled monthly train departes actually made it to the destination. They eventually removed the finer parts to make them more robust during winter, adding them back again come summer, and lessons learned for winter of '42.
b) basic supplies & ammo were prioritized higher.
c) many rail lines not yet converted, leaving few options in case of partisan attacks.

Combine these and the result is what seems to have happened historically, the clothing did not reach the frontline units in time.

I don't get the impression this particularity is modelled in the game, but maybe abstracted into the drop of supplies which is seen during winter/blizzard.

(in reply to Skanvak)

Post #: 37

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/19/2011 10:42:45 PM

sillyflower

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I have just reached end of my Dec 25 turn in GC41 game with latest patch. German army strength is I think slightly higher than was at end of Nov in numbers of men which has suprised me from experience in earlier games.

Russian hasn't been able to attack that much which has helped. On 1st blizzard turm my axis losses showed up as only 20K men and it's been 50-60 losses per turn since. Russians were weak enough (lost 3.8M up to that point + a LOT of factories) and I had a good buffer zone in many places so that counter offensive has been weak.

A lot of troops were in winter quarters ie cities (including Leningrad Moscow and Donbass) and high population towns but few units were in higher than L2 forts but even so that's a drastic reduction from the 70K I would have expected before.

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Post #: 38

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/23/2011 7:56:52 PM

ParaB

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Weak winter?

I have captured Moscow and Leningrad and inflicted ~4 Mio casualties on the Red Army in 1941.

I'm now in turn 28 (Dec 25th '41) and have lost an average of 130.000 casualties a week since the Blizzards started. And I have 8 more weeks to go. I have no idea how I'll survive the winter.

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 39

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/23/2011 8:33:48 PM

TulliusDetritus

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ParaB, have 2-units stacks German infantry divisions in minimum fort level 2. You should be pretty safe

Now, if you cannot afford this (you can't do that everywhere, I guess), be deliberately weak in non important parts of the front and be strong is VITAL parts of the front.

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Post #: 40

RE: Winter too weak now? - 5/23/2011 10:09:38 PM

ParaB

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It's not (just) the combat that's killing me , it's the additional 80-100k casualties each week due to the weather. Add to that the massive losses whenever a Red Army attack succeeds (easily ~3.000 casualties per division) and my infantry divisions are now barely at half strength after just a single month of blizzard. Except at a few critical points I simply can't afford to stack divisions due to the length of the front.

I just hope the Red Army will run out of steam before I run out of soldiers...