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interesting story... - 5/23/2011 7:49:09 PM   
Footslogger


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From: Washington USA
Status: offline 		Did Churchill know of the German bombers headed for Coventry and did nothing?
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RE: interesting story... - 5/23/2011 8:46:27 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Good Grief. Not that old chestnut again.
The identification of Coventry as a target was IIRC not decoded via Ultra. It was a night raid. The RAF were doing absolutely everything possible to counter night raids, which was (in round figures) pretty much zero, zilch, nada. No AI (airbourne intercept) radar. No (or precious little) ground radar inland. Even if the LW had given the RAF a list of targets every day there would have been almost nothing that could have been done to counter night raids in November 1940.

People have cited the raid as a deliberate choice by Churchill (or other UK High Commanders) to sacrifice a city to preserve Ultra. The reality is rather more boring. No conspiracy, just cock-up. Like most things in history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_Blitz



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RE: interesting story... - 5/23/2011 8:48:23 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		This is not an "interesting story", anymore than "FDR let Pearl Harbor get bombed" is "interesting". It's conspiracy theory garbage.

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RE: interesting story... - 5/23/2011 8:54:24 PM   
warspite1


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Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		This nonsense probably originated from the poisonous mind of David Irving or some other toe rag who believes WWII was caused by Winston Churchill.....

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RE: interesting story... - 5/23/2011 9:35:28 PM   
Whisper

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Did Churchill know of the German bombers headed for Coventry and did nothing?

Yes. Clementine's cousin's family lived in Coventry and Winston did what he could to shut that side of the family up.

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RE: interesting story... - 5/23/2011 9:43:02 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Don't say that, not even as a joke. That's how conspiracy theory crap like this gets started.

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RE: interesting story... - 5/23/2011 9:57:39 PM   
MosheDayan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

This nonsense probably originated from the poisonous mind of David Irving or some other toe rag who believes WWII was caused by Winston Churchill.....


x2. Nicely put.

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 12:15:29 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
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From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		One of the more recent explainations was that the RAF told Churchill, "don't worry we intend to deflect the electronic signal that the Germans are navigating by". Then the RAF officer responsible set the wrong frequency. Ouche!

That was often used as an example to Military students learning EW as to a poetential cost of screwing up!

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 2:59:09 AM   
offenseman


Posts: 768
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From: Sheridan Wyoming, USA
Status: offline 		In general: A conspiracy theory provides a simply solution to a complex question.  The only problem is that it is the wrong answer. ;)

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 4:16:05 AM   
Mynok


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It doesn't provide a solution. It provides a salve to the diseased mind. Churchill was hardly a saint but he wasn't stupid. Just arrogant.


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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 10:11:00 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


...........Churchill was hardly a saint but he wasn't stupid.....

Warspite1

....and there was also the small matter of him being instrumental in saving Europe from Nazi tyranny .

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 10:41:29 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I always loved his "we will fight everywhere" speech. Good stuff.

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 1:30:48 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


It doesn't provide a solution. It provides a salve to the diseased mind. Churchill was hardly a saint but he wasn't stupid. Just arrogant.


And EXACTLY what the continent of Europe needed at the time. I hope they remember this great man's service to all Europeans, but somehow I suspect that he is less appreciated there than he is in the UK or here.

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 1:31:38 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


...........Churchill was hardly a saint but he wasn't stupid.....

Warspite1

....and there was also the small matter of him being instrumental in saving Europe from Nazi tyranny .

Pfft....details details details...

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Post #: 14
RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 1:35:29 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


It doesn't provide a solution. It provides a salve to the diseased mind. Churchill was hardly a saint but he wasn't stupid. Just arrogant.


And EXACTLY what the continent of Europe needed at the time. I hope they remember this great man's service to all Europeans, but somehow I suspect that he is less appreciated there than he is in the UK or here.


You'd be incorrect. Of course, that only applies to the rapidly shrinking number of people who know who Churchill was.

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Post #: 15
RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 2:02:12 PM   
warspite1


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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


It doesn't provide a solution. It provides a salve to the diseased mind. Churchill was hardly a saint but he wasn't stupid. Just arrogant.


And EXACTLY what the continent of Europe needed at the time. I hope they remember this great man's service to all Europeans, but somehow I suspect that he is less appreciated there than he is in the UK or here.

Warspite1

Yes, pleasingly, he was voted number 1 in the BBC's "100 Greatest Britons" poll back in 2002. Sadly, there have been a few recent threads in various forums where Sir Winston has been on the receiving end of a bashing. Which is both sad and irritating in equal measure, but there you go, that's life I guess

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 2:03:19 PM   
warspite1


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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


...........Churchill was hardly a saint but he wasn't stupid.....

Warspite1

....and there was also the small matter of him being instrumental in saving Europe from Nazi tyranny .

Pfft....details details details...

Warspite1

Hehe ...call me Mr Picky

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Post #: 17
RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 4:36:49 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: offenseman

In general: A conspiracy theory provides a simply solution to a complex question.  The only problem is that it is the wrong answer. ;)



I would call Winnie a big-time "conspiracy theorist". He was convinced that both Stalin and Hitler were conspiring to conquer the rest of Europe. And he was "dead on" in both cases...., long before most folks realized it.

Churchill's biggest failings were his childlike convictions that he knew most things better than his professional advisors. Which led him to "balls ups" such as sending the North African Army to support Greece instead of allowing it to finish the
job in North Africa..., or believing that Singapore WAS a "fortress" and shoveling more troops into Japanese POW camps.

The man was a GIANT..., and both his virtues and his failings were larger than life.

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Post #: 18
RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 9:51:58 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		recently, i've read more pungent criticism of WSC that eclipses his supposed 'indifference' to the Coventry raid - viz., that he ignored warnings of famine in Bengal, yet still demanded that foodstuffs from India be shipped to England in support of the European war effort.

what can i say? WSC was faced everyday w/ decisions of dire consequence. As a son of 19th-C British imperialism, he made his choices & stood behind them, while history rolled its dice. There's only a half-dozen men (FDR, George Marshall, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini) that could stand beside him as national leaders, & none of them could match his eloquence.

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RE: interesting story... - 5/24/2011 10:05:21 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'd suggest that FDR was his equal in that department.

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