RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Panzer Command: Ostfront >> RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN

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RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 5/31/2011 6:03:31 PM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pillar
Is it not an accurate way to describe it?�

I guess so.

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Post #: 91

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 5/31/2011 6:43:33 PM

Pillar

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Joined: 4/21/2011
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Yeah needs tweaking still :(

(in reply to Redmarkus5)

Post #: 92

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/1/2011 2:28:02 AM

Mad Russian

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Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pillar

I could live with it if platoon hq's just set the platoon "stance" rather than have to issue movement orders for everyone (and then cancel them.)

It's good that you can live with that because that's exactly the way it is. The HQ gives the orders to the platoon. If you want anything other than that you have to give additional orders.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 93

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/1/2011 10:38:59 AM

phantom67

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Joined: 6/1/2011
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Just get both? :D I've been playing a lot of CMBN and I'm loving it. I don't own a copy of PCO (yet) but I'm very close to caving in and buying one, but of course, I wouldn't want to give up CMBN, I think its a fantastic game. On the other hand, can someone explain to me what the main differences are between PCO and CMBB (Barbarossa to Berlin)?

edit: Just so that its clear, I'm not trying to stir or anything like that, not wishing to imply that PCO has nothing on CMBB, just wanna know the differences.

Cheers
phantom67

< Message edited by phantom67 -- 6/1/2011 10:55:39 AM >

(in reply to henri51)

Post #: 94

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/1/2011 11:48:50 AM

thewood1

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I would suggest searching my name and CMBB...I did a comparison of CMBB and PCK. Then you can look at the change list for PCO to see what was added.

(in reply to phantom67)

Post #: 95

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/3/2011 8:02:55 AM

Pillar

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pillar

I could live with it if platoon hq's just set the platoon "stance" rather than have to issue movement orders for everyone (and then cancel them.)

It's good that you can live with that because that's exactly the way it is. The HQ gives the orders to the platoon. If you want anything other than that you have to give additional orders.

Good Hunting.

MR

I'd like to avoid having to cancel the orders

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 96

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/3/2011 12:58:11 PM

Mad Russian

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The system doesn't make you cancel anything.

What it does is have a set order that you follow when giving orders. It's simple.

You give orders to HQ units first. Then you give orders to anyone in that platoon that is doing something the rest of the platoon is not doing.

There is no giving extra orders. The system is designed to have you give less orders. You can give orders to the entire platoon instead of having to give each and every squad in the platoon a separate order.

What you have asked for so far is exactly the way the system works. Unless I don't understand your concerns yet.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 97

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 2:02:50 PM

pinwolf

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/5/2011
From: Beyond Fulda Gap
Status: offline

Hello PC:Ostfront-community here comes my first post.
Please excuse my bad English.

I have pre-ordered and played all Combat Mission games since Beyond Overlord
(CM:BO, CM:BB, CM:AK, CM:SF+Marines+British+NATO, CM:A and now CM:BN -> mostly PBEM (WEGO)).
I'm one of the BFC-'fanboys'that 'holded the line' when CMSF struggled in that cauldron battle against WW2_CMx1'lers after it came out 'to early'.
I never was a classic 'tabletop-board' wargamer in the true sense. The corner I come from is
computer-games (classic Wizardry and SSI AD&D CRPG, X-COM, Jagged Allicance + clones,
Steel Panther Series, Close Combat games)

When the first Panzer Command (Winterstorm?) came out I don't even bothered to
try out the demo, because I knowed at this time, that I would not play it anyway
after I read that the infantry combat model was only 'abecedarian'.

I first heared about PCO on the battlefront forum some weeks ago, and having a
long weekend this last week, I decided to give it a try after I read
the Ostfront Full Feature List.
I bought it straight a way over the download-only option, don't bothered with the demo.
I expected that I would not really like it, just wanted to check it out in full version and give some money to the developers for there effort and enthusiasm.
I was right with this expectation in regards, that PCO is not to be able to hold a candle to CMBN. (CMx2)
The CMx2 engine is much to inovative and now firmly 'grounded' after CMSF.
No chance for Panzer Command-engine to catch up and confront CMx2-engine head on.

But this would be a usesless 'fight'. You can't compare PC:O with the CMx2 engine, it's the wrong playing-field.
So why I don't have shelfed PC:O after trying it out over the last two days and bother to write this post on the PCO-forum?

For the following commends take in to account that I'm still a total noob regarding Panzer Command Ostfront,
(I still struggle to take that Church in the first Boot Camp scenario on easy level).

My observations so far:

- Never judge PC:O against CMx2 - the design philosophy is too different.
- PC:O is the (succesfull) try to optimse and improve CMx1-'playstyle'.
- PC:O trys to take all the good aspects of CMx1+Steel Panthers+Close Combat
- So the games to judge PC:O against are CM:BB and CM:AK (and SP+CC)!!!
- PC:O is 'under the hood' in essence a classic 'old school' wargame for the good or better, not a simulation in the way of CMx2.
- This last point is the 'Sollbruchstelle', that one has to understand in it's full consequence to make a determination if PC:O is 'crap' or a 'gem'.
- PC:O is 'crap' when you expect CMx2.
- PC:O is a true gem, a very deep -even inovative in parts- classic computer wargame, that concentrates on the Platoon Command aspect foremost.
- PC:O concentrates on the aspects BFC left alone, when they pioneered in new CMx2 areas and brings them to perfection.

Points that I realy like about PC:O:
a) deep WEGO rules (reaction phases)
b) exquisite single player campaign game (with awards that have a function in the game-system!!!)
c) very functional map editor (don't have tried it for real till now)
d) Good Quick Battle Generator -> even for Campaigns
e) clear 'game-rules' which are explained in the manual (would not make much sense for CMx2)
f) nice UI, easy to get into
g) Unit statistic, which mean something in context of the 'game-rules' (again not much sense for CMx2)
...
z) it's an improved CMx1 flair with FULL WW2-OSTFRONT !!!! :]

What I would like to see:
Just some thoughts after playing for two days.

I like to play this game in 'true grog-combat'-mode (trying to stay Alt-TABed in ground view as best as I can)
- Problem is to swith units and selecting spotted enemy units.
- Would be nice is if I could switch through my units and always stay Alt-TABed...
- ...and click enemy� units from far or in zoomed view but still stay Alt-Tabed to my own selected unit.
...
- Option to show the small map as full screen (...and always stay Alt-TABed)
- Alt-key for taking away UI during playback should have the option to function as a permanent on/off switch.

Question:
- Give copulas on vehicles a small chance to spot to the rear when buttoned-up?

Many thanks for this game, I'm for shure will stay tuned on for this.

< Message edited by Smaragdadler -- 6/5/2011 2:30:57 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 98

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 2:13:37 PM

junk2drive

Posts: 12907
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From: Arizona West Coast
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Thanks for the support. I can't disagree with anything. I like your wish list but don't know if it is possible.

Your last question, we tried all kinds of things with tanks and vision. Some things gave unrealistic or unexpected results. We will keep trying though.

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(in reply to pinwolf)

Post #: 99

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 2:27:25 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smaragdadler

Hello PC:Ostfront-community here comes my first post.
Please excuse my bad English.

Your English is just fine.

I've been to the Fulda Gap. Are you from Germany?

quote:

But this would be a usesless 'fight'. You can't compare PC:O with the CMx2 engine, it's the wrong playing-field.

That's what we keep trying to tell people as well.

quote:

What I would like to see:
Just some thoughts after playing for two days.

I like to play this game in 'true grog-combat'-mode (trying to stay Alt-TABed in ground view as best as I can)
- Problem is to swith units and selecting spotted enemy units.
- Would be nice is if I could switch through my units and always stay Alt-TABed...
- ...and click enemy� units from far or in zoomed view but still stay Alt-Tabed to my own selected unit.
...
- Option to show the small map as full screen (...and always stay Alt-TABed)
- Alt-key for taking away UI during playback should have the option to function as a permanent on/off switch.

I'll add those to the Wish List.

quote:

Question:
- Give copulas on vehicles a small chance to spot to the rear when buttoned-up?

That's been discussed at some length. At the moment tanks can only see straight ahead if buttoned up. I'll add that onto the Wish List as well.

quote:

Many thanks for this game, I'm for shure will stay tuned on for this.

Welcome to PCO. This is just the start of where PC can and hopefully will go. Where it ends up in great measure depends on gamers like you.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 6/5/2011 2:48:49 PM >

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Post #: 100

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 2:34:50 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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Hi Smaragdadler,

Thank you very much for posting and for giving our game a try. I think you "got it" and I'm very glad to hear that you are having fun with PCO.

We do indeed have a different design philosophy from CMx2 (more towards the game model than the simulation model, as you noted) and we are a different kind of game. We are not trying to replace CMx2, we are simply offering a different kind of 3D tactical wargame. We are definitely inspired by CMx1 and also by SP and to some degree by SL/ASL, CC and JTCS and other old tabletop board and miniatures wargames (like Panzer War, which is the basis for the Panzer Command design).

Regarding your feature list, we'll definitely take a look and see if we can make the ground view playstyle easier to do. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do honestly.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 6/5/2011 2:35:38 PM >

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Post #: 101

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 3:46:50 PM

pinwolf

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/5/2011
From: Beyond Fulda Gap
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Many thanks again for that. I really would like to see this ground-view thing evolve in a full thought-out game-mode.
But you are the designers and know what's exact possible with engine and the time one has to spent to implement it 'the right way'.

About Fulda Gap,
yes, I'm a 'DDR-child'. I live in Thuringia, which was the most western WARPAC area in the cold war.
Greetings from Arnstadt.

< Message edited by Smaragdadler -- 6/5/2011 3:48:02 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 102

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 4:18:04 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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I lived in Hanau, we patrolled the Fulda Gap, but was all over FRG. Thankfully, back then, I never was in DDR.

Now, I'd like to go and look around.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 103

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 5:45:47 PM

pinwolf

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/5/2011
From: Beyond Fulda Gap
Status: offline

You could start here:
http://www.itcwebdesigns.com/tour_germany/thuringia.htm

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 104

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 6:00:03 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
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I would imagine that I looked across the border near Fulda into Thuringia many times.

This picture from the tourist site takes me back 30 years. This part of Germany is without a doubt very beautiful with lots of friendly people.

Good Hunting.

MR

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 6/5/2011 6:05:49 PM >

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Post #: 105

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 6:30:38 PM

pinwolf

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/5/2011
From: Beyond Fulda Gap
Status: offline

Yeah, that that pic could be taken just right where I live. But I was only 14 years�in 1989. GDR is just like child/dream-reminisce for me.
I remember the long soviet army columns. And the 'Russenschrauber' (HINDs) on the sky 2 or 3 times in the week. In the nights there where often Arty and tank fire. That was when the Russians made an execise on Ohrdruf Training Grounds. I think I read some years ago, that there where even A-Bombs in the Russian garission in my home town. All long ago...

< Message edited by Smaragdadler -- 6/5/2011 6:34:39 PM >

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 106

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 6:54:11 PM

junk2drive

Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

Who's grass mod is that?

(sorry couldn't resist)

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Post #: 107

RE: Convince me that I should buy it instead of CBN - 6/5/2011 7:14:56 PM

Mobius

Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smaragdadler
Question:
- Give copulas on vehicles a small chance to spot to the rear when buttoned-up?

This is possible now. Tanks can see to the rear if the enemy is close enough. Try it out with a test scenario. Put a few Tiger tanks with a few light Russian tanks about 65-90m behind them. Button the Tigers up. Run the game and with the Tigers on Defend they will turn and fire.

_____________________________

All your Tanks are Belong to us!
panzer

(in reply to pinwolf)

Post #: 108