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Warhammer 40,000 - 10/6/2002 3:39:21 AM   
CCB


Posts: 4208
Joined: 3/21/2002
Status: offline 		Anyone play this one? Its a tabletop miniatures game set in the very, very distant future. The local comic book shop has a tournament once a month or so and I thought I'd check it out. I bought the basic rule book and some soldiers (Cadians.)

Might be nice to get away from WW2, away from the PC and actually talk to people face to face for a while. :p

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Post #: 1
- 10/6/2002 6:48:47 AM   
Kraut


Posts: 2551
Joined: 8/13/2002
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I didn't play the table-top game, but I tried the computer versions. You are probbaly not interested in those because you want to get away from the PC.

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Post #: 2
- 10/6/2002 7:44:07 AM   
CCB


Posts: 4208
Joined: 3/21/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kraut
[B]I didn't play the table-top game, but I tried the computer versions. You are probbaly not interested in those because you want to get away from the PC. [/B][/QUOTE]

Is that the SSI version?

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Post #: 3
- 10/6/2002 1:56:17 PM   
scimitar

 

Posts: 301
Joined: 8/22/2001
From: Belgium
Status: offline 		I'm playing W40K, but just a beginner. Have bought an Eldar army and I'm busy with the painting of all the figures. I'm playing with my son and my nephew. My son bought an Ultramarines army; my nephew a Black Eldar one. Actually we are assimilating the rules. I must say we're more speaking painting techniques for the time being then playing... Serious play would begin next year.

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Post #: 4
- 10/6/2002 4:03:18 PM   
Kraut


Posts: 2551
Joined: 8/13/2002
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by CCB
[B]

Is that the SSI version? [/B][/QUOTE]

I've got a collection from SSI: Final Liberation and Chaos Gate and from "medieval" Warhammer Shadow of the Horned Rat.

There are some utilities for those:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Battlefield/6003/computer.html

(never used them myself, though).

There is a online multiplayer versionof Warhammer in the works, release about 2004

http://www.eurogamer.net/content/i_gamesworkshop

http://www.games-workshop.com/warhammerworld/associated/wol.htm

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Post #: 5
- 10/6/2002 7:04:52 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		My kids love Warhammer....they spend nearly all of there pocket money on the stuff. I have to admit to liking the space marines.:)

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Post #: 6
- 10/7/2002 3:37:51 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		I have only this to same about Warhammer.

When you get past table top miniatures being fun....

The makers of Warhammer have the industry's most arrogantly over priced and most offensively poorly made models in existence.

The leads might be marginally acceptable, but this expert model craftsman (yes expert is deserved, I have worked in the field professionally) spits on Citadel and their disgustingly worthless plastic models.

I think the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay game is one of the nicer manuals to have been made, but the won't get the slightest positive remark from me for their miniatures.

If the hobby appeals to a person, I won't spoil their fun, but they will pay a fortune to get, in the opinion of someone that has made a Tamiya Tank, would call a disgusting waste of plastic.

Cheap models do NOT deserve top dollar.

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Post #: 7
- 10/7/2002 4:29:23 AM   
CCB


Posts: 4208
Joined: 3/21/2002
Status: offline 		I'll have to agree with you there Les. Though I haven't yet purchased one of their 'tanks', I have seen the prices and they are very much overpriced. I could get the latest Tamiya or DLM panzer kit for less, including photo-etched parts!

I was planning on just purchasing just the lead infantrymen and scratchbuilding my own vehicles, if I use vehicles at all.

Thanks for the links Kraut! :)

And I'm like you scimitar, right now I'm just painting too. I chose the Cadians because they look the most like my idea of futuristic infantrymen. I almost chose the Valhallans (and may yet get some) because they look like WW2 Soviet infantrymen in winter coats.

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Post #: 8
- 10/7/2002 6:12:31 AM   
Karnaaj

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Spokane WA USA
Status: offline 		P'raps Games Workshop has changed some since I was watching my local gaming group (back in Montana), but they sed to have a *very* annoying habit of coming out with new figs (only available via mail order immediately) advertised in the same issue of WHITE DWARF as the new rules for 'em. I knew someone who would drop wads of cash out *every* new release, as the rules (local houserules? I dunno) were "you ain't got it, you can't play it". From discussions along the way, it seems that all those cool new rules tended to crock older ones, and were subsequently patched or superceded/neutralised by the next month's selections... which, of course, needed the new figs to use...

Me? I looked at the books. Some neat artwork, stealable bits here and there...roleplay? Nyet. I deided to stay out of that stuff - saved untold buckage and aggrivation.

Notes: all this was primarily Epic scale stuff - 4/5? mm, itty bitty four or five guys on a 1/2" x 1/2" stand. And me with stubby-fingered meathooks, painting this stuff? The idea being floated past me by mltiple players was that I buy a boxed set ($50-60 US, in the mid-'90s), which would get me a "starting" force, and leave parts for said other players to beg for. Did I mention that I'd have to buy at least one book on top of that?

Later, they drifted into the "regular" 25mm scale stuff - both 40k and WH Fantasy; although, I remember going on a road trip with one guy to Spokane - I just wanted a free ride - where he spent like unto $200-300 on whatever the epic-scale fantasy naval game was. I think they were just getting into Gorkamorka around the time I left.

Ah well. Just my experiences/opinions... Your Mileage May Vary.

(in reply to CCB)
Post #: 9
- 10/7/2002 7:53:35 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Although to put my thoughts into a new perspective, because I don't like being painted arbitrary or mindlessly hostile, I see people routinely spend insane sums on all manner of hobbies, and still enjoy the hobby fully.

I see people pay insane sums for questionable items, and wonder about the stability of their thinking. And I would be one of them too I guess heheh.

We all generally know the game Magic the Gathering...card board crack, Magic the Squandering etc. It was a fine game at one time (I think they just took pumping out cards to far at some point).

But recognising it was a dead issue with my local friends I finally realised it was time to just get over it and sell my cards. I knew I would not get their real worth. But oh well, I would by a Jointer Planner with the money. Surely I could get 350 with my custom stash. Nope lousy 100 bucks (Canadian too eh).

Frustrated, miserable, and stuck knowing I had nothing I needed that was 100 bucks or less I decided to buy something I liked that was admittedly insane. I bought 100 bucks in Sailormoon cards heheh (yeah you read that right, hey remember I am trained to kill too eh heheh, so watch the tauts hehe).

A stupid looking Pokemon rip off really heheh.

That is all Warhammer really is eh, a stupid wargaming rip off. But hey, some like the game (and who am I to talk heheh).

So when your buddies line up telling you to get into Warhammer with a starter set, and yatter about how great the game is, picture Sarge with Sailormoon cards, and ask yourself, do you reeeeeeally like the game enough.
You might end up feeling as foolish later,

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 10
- 10/7/2002 4:26:20 PM   
Kraut


Posts: 2551
Joined: 8/13/2002
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Les, for all those reasons I confine myself to the computer versions of Warhammer. It's less social, but also much less aggravating and expensive.

(in reply to CCB)
Post #: 11
- 10/7/2002 7:54:51 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Kraut are there any demo versions of computer Warhammer to be found out there? Does anyone know?

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 12
- 10/7/2002 9:06:47 PM   
Kraut


Posts: 2551
Joined: 8/13/2002
From: Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Kraut are there any demo versions of computer Warhammer to be found out there? Does anyone know? [/B][/QUOTE]

Les, here's a link for downloading the Chaos Gate demo:

http://www.gamesdomain.com/demos/demo/741.html

Chaos Gate was on a cover CD here in Germany about 18 months ago, so it should be pretty cheap. If you get the game, use the
patch for version 1.2

Here's the link for downloading Dark Omen
http://www.gamesdomain.com/demos/demo/726.html

link for Rites of War demo
http://www.actiontrip.com/files/demos/warhammer40000ritesofwar.phtml
This game uses an upgraded Panzer General engine.

The collection with Chaos Gate, Final Liberation and Shadow of the Horned Rat ought to be pretty cheap by now, too.

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Post #: 13
- 10/7/2002 10:18:47 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks Kraut

Tried Dark Demo, runs after Win XP uses its compatibility feature. Not to bad a game I guess, but it's a RTS game so it's out of my own preference range.

I suggest the RTS crowd take a look though.

Tried the Chaos Gate demo. It too needed Win XP compatibility feature. Both needed Win 95 plus set for 256 colour mode eh.

Chaos gate looks like a miniatures turn based game with nice graphics, but game crashed on me after a few minutes.
I give it a thumbs up for the cool background audio tracks though.

Again I think the forum might want to look at this game too. Some might enjoy the mecha look to the game.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 14
- 10/8/2002 12:20:00 AM   
Kraut


Posts: 2551
Joined: 8/13/2002
From: Germany
Status: offline 		You are welcome. Yes, Chaos Gate is a XCOM-style game. The full version doesn't crash after the patch to version 1.2 is applied.

(in reply to CCB)
Post #: 15
- 10/8/2002 2:15:26 AM   
HerrGeneral

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 3/11/2002
From: Holly Springs, NC
Status: offline 		I play Warhammer 40K (and lots of of miniature games) and spend lots of money on it. It's still fun to me, mostly the painting and modeling part. :)

The computer games haven't been bad and I have enjoyed them also.


Rod

(in reply to CCB)
Post #: 16
- 10/9/2002 7:45:52 PM   
Scharfschütze

 

Posts: 538
Joined: 8/27/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I bought the original WH40K when it was releases in 1987 (I think), together with a friend since we were maybe thirteen years old and had to save money...

The second edition rules are fun to play, I have heard rumours that GW has done a third ed., which is supposedly over simplified.

I havent played WH40k in years, but still boast a small but deadly World Eater Traitor Marine force with four (yep!) Dreadnoughts, a Land Raider, a converted Rhino (assault gun w/ Missile Launcher) and a Bloodthirster. Add some thirty infantry, and there we go. All nicely painted, of course. All of this stuff is about ten years old, so I cannot comment on the newer plastics. The old metal miniatures are quite goth, though, and probably no longer available.

Those were the days...I own both Realm of Chaos books, especially Slaves to Darkness is superb.

I will do a RPG weekend with a few old friends in early November, mastering the WFRP "Shadows over Bögenhafen" scenario. I am expecting the book in the mail every day now, and am driveling...

(in reply to CCB)
Post #: 17
- 10/9/2002 9:44:49 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]I have only this to same about Warhammer.

When you get past table top miniatures being fun....

The makers of Warhammer have the industry's most arrogantly over priced and most offensively poorly made models in existence.

The leads might be marginally acceptable, but this expert model craftsman (yes expert is deserved, I have worked in the field professionally) spits on Citadel and their disgustingly worthless plastic models.

I think the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay game is one of the nicer manuals to have been made, but the won't get the slightest positive remark from me for their miniatures.

If the hobby appeals to a person, I won't spoil their fun, but they will pay a fortune to get, in the opinion of someone that has made a Tamiya Tank, would call a disgusting waste of plastic.

Cheap models do NOT deserve top dollar. [/B][/QUOTE]



Whoa! Oh great expert model craftsman, just a take a minute to stop and think. The next time that you walk past a war hammer shop, just take a note of how FULL it always is with kids.....doing modelling and table-top wargaming. Yeah so it is over priced, and yeah the quailty of the models is on the same level as say Airfix and Revell (S?), but the fact is this war hammer craze is the breeding ground of future modellers, and wargamers, be they table top or computer.
It fills my heart with joy to see my two boys on their hands and knees glueing and painting to their hearts content. And in this day and age that is something to marvel at !

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Post #: 18
- 10/9/2002 10:42:13 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Yeah but Raverdave, think how crowded that shop would be, if one of those ****ty "we only sell Citadel in our bloody store" models was priced the same way as all the rest of the industries equally worthless models was.

A 5 dollar kit should be sold as a 5 dollar kit.

But Citadel has no competition (hmmm that explains why Windows sucks eh, almost no competition).

I pay top dollar for Tamiya and hey guess what, it is also worth every cent.

If Tamiya decided tomorrow to market the same product concept Citadel does, you wouldn't be able to give away Citadel models.

If my son asks for a model, and insists on doing it himself, I will buy him those junky 5 dollar kits to experience the basics on. Then when he sees that they don't look like dad's I will point out why. And I will explain it took me years and years to build them that well, and it also takes a great deal more than 5 bucks too.

I would not mind getting him an expensive kit, but I will then sit with him and show him that it is a lot more work, takes a lot more patience, and is just not worth it if he doesn't want to really do it all the way (thats what worthless 5 dollar kits are for).

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 19
- 10/11/2002 6:54:11 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Well the cost does not seem to both the kids......and it does not bother me either.......I would be [I]more[/I] bothered if I saw a model shop that was empty. Kids these days have more money than I ever had at their age....how they spend it is up to them. But I am pleased as punch that they are spending it on model kits so that they can play table-top wargames. Love them or hate them, but the warhammer crowd will mature, and move onto the things that you and I love doing now. Look upon it as a nursery for budding wargamers/modellers. The older they get the more of a critical eye they will develop and in their onw time make an informed opinion on what is a good kit and what is not........lets just get them hooked first.;)

And lets face it, these days there are far worse things that the kids could be spending their money on than Warhammer.

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Post #: 20
- 10/13/2002 6:10:39 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Well to be sure, yep, they could be spending their money on worse things.

I would never pull a kid out of a hobby based solely on it being expensive.

Then again. If my son gets an interest in Warhammer, you can bet he will walk his legs off with a paper route to buy them.

I will support his enthusiasm, I will even encourage it. But it will be a cold day in hell before I support Citadel passively with MY money..

Oh and don't think the price "doesn't" bother the kids eh. I have heard the comments been in the stores known the players.

A the hobby has a low retention level for a reason,

and

B try getting a buddy into it when you tell him the cost involved.

Those kids are not dumb, they know the value of a buck.

The ones playing Warhammer are not always there as a result of pure choice. Remember, Wargaming is the hobby of the loser wacko, anti social geek (no I don't see it that way of course), but take a close look at the kids next time.
They is us. We is them.
You won't find cheerleaders and jocks playing Warhammer (not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing hehe).

I think if my son demonstrated the slightest hint of interest in Warhammer, I would be inclined to "rescue" him with some decent miniatures and try to get him into real military miniatures gaming. Same costs, better models, more rewarding simulations.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 21
- 10/14/2002 9:15:41 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Well things must be different over your side of the pond.....both my boys are interested in Warhammer.....and neither of them is a geek.

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to CCB)
Post #: 22
- 10/14/2002 9:49:18 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Nothing wrong with being a geek Raverdave:)

I have a better computer than most people I know thanks to a couple of friends that are geeks hehe.

Then again, geeks don't always look immediately like geeks. A lot of people are often surprised that some of my buddies play rolegames. To look at them they look like just the guy working beside you on the assembly line some days.

To say that any schmuck can be a wargamer though is not atypical here at least. Commonly people that have an interest in gaming are generally above average intellect. And a all to often people tend to shy away from "smarter" people.

Heaven knows I have had that trouble at least.

I will never forget my first run in with the effect directly. My sarge told me to act stupid occasionally, and I might have more buddies. He told me I intimidated people just by talking (I use a fairly hefty volcabulary routinely).

I hope my comment didn't shed a negative light on the kids "labelling" them so broadly hehe.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to CCB)
Post #: 23
- 10/14/2002 10:05:37 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Commonly people that have an interest in gaming are generally above average intellect. [/B][/QUOTE]


Oh for godsake! Now you are accusing me of being smart!;)

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Post #: 24
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