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Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs

 
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Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 10:53:02 AM   
dbmsts

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 2/18/2011
Status: offline 		1. I added a torpedo ordnance device to a base force on midway using the editor and I typed 36 in the num field in front of the device in slot #19. When I started the scenario and looked at the main screen of the midway base I noticed that the number of troops had increased a lot. However, when I looked in the BF I could see a button next to the device in the TOE. On clicking it a dialog box appeared asking for the number of torpedos to be added upto 10 maximum. I added 10 torps and then looked to see if there were any increases in the number of troops on the island and there were none. I added atleast 40 more torps while in the game using the same procedure however the troop number remained the same. Why is this so? Shall I leave the num field in the editor empty?

2. Does adding this device require more support squads?

3. Do Air HQs also need this device for supplying torps to the bases? If so how do they do it? Is it automatic and does the radius of the HQ also count? Does the base HQ also determine whether the base will recieve torps from the Air Hq?

4. Do cammand HQs also need this device to be added?
Post #: 1
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 1:02:38 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I don't know what happened to increase the troop count.  Did you add some other device at the same time and forget about it?

Torpedoes were given to air HQs to prevent Netties from dropping torpedoes willy nilly.  Torpedoes were expensive and only used on targets that were considered worthy of the expenditure.  The idea was that only some units would have torpedoes and thus the number of bases where you could launch a torpedo strike would be limited.  Torpedoes also cost supply to draw into the HQ, so there is a price.

If an air unit is torpedo capable and the HQ at the base has enough torpedoes to outfit the entire unit, it will fly a naval strike with torps and the HQ's stock of torpedoes will be decremented by the number drawn for the mission.

There has been some debate over the effectiveness of this, but that was the plan anyway.  Torpedoes are just torpedoes, no extra troops with them.  Only air HQs should have them, though I suppose you could add them to anything you wanted.  There may be a few other units with torpedo ordinance floating around, I don't recall offhand (and I didn't do anything with any of the OOBs).

Bill


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(in reply to dbmsts)
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RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 1:39:36 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Slot 19 of LCU is where torpedo ordnance is kept. That is the slot used by Air HQ.

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Michael

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RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 1:55:28 PM   
dbmsts

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 2/18/2011
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quote:

I don't know what happened to increase the troop count. Did you add some other device at the same time and forget about it?


No I didn't add any other device at the same time. I even checked the troop count after removing the num value (made it 0) from Torpedo Ordnance and it returned back to normal.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 4
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 2:19:58 PM   
dbmsts

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 2/18/2011
Status: offline 		Alright, now I have a torpedo ordnance device on a base force on midway. I kept the num value in the editor at 0. In the game I purchased about 500 torpedoes (10 at a time). There were no torpedo bombers on the base. I ended the orders phase and when I came back to the second orders phase on day 2 the torpedo ordnance showed 0. I must add that during the execution phase there was some bombardement of midway by japanese destroyers and the airfield got damaged slightly. Is this the reason for losing all of my torpedoes?


(in reply to dbmsts)
Post #: 5
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 2:49:20 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dbmsts

Alright, now I have a torpedo ordnance device on a base force on midway. I kept the num value in the editor at 0. In the game I purchased about 500 torpedoes (10 at a time). There were no torpedo bombers on the base. I ended the orders phase and when I came back to the second orders phase on day 2 the torpedo ordnance showed 0. I must add that during the execution phase there was some bombardement of midway by japanese destroyers and the airfield got damaged slightly. Is this the reason for losing all of my torpedoes?




More likely, the TO&E is being adjusted to what the TO&E is set to in the editor.

You can't just change the BF, you also have to change the BF template (look for the number that is it points back to as TOE). This will be somewhere in the 2000 range in the Locations index.

Edit: If I were to add torpedo ordnance to the BF TO&E, I would limit them to no more than 36. Otherwise you end up with Torpedoes in the Pacific: Admirals Edition.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 6/3/2011 2:52:12 PM >

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RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 6:27:26 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Likely "troop count" is being derived from the load value of the devices.
This has always distorted troop counts - but for SOME devices - load value IS
troop count - so that is probably why it is done that way.

Torpedoes seem an unlikely device for HQ. Germany did field ONE station
of wire guided torpedoes ashore - in France - during WWII. And a German cruiser
was sunk by ancient torpedos based on land in Norway. But it is probably not
a common defense.

(in reply to dbmsts)
Post #: 7
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 6:42:33 PM   
Whisper

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: LA
Status: offline 		Wrong. All you have to do is look at the editor and see there is no load value for this device. Where the hell do you people get off giving such false information to players?

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 8
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 7:23:13 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		I wrote what I remember being told - and possibly also reading. By someone who knew how the code
does troop count. It may be false, but I am not aware of that - and I have run into situations where it
turned out to be a problem because that does seem to be how troop count is calculated.

You are confused - not to mention also in violation of the terms of use of the Forums. Tthis is your first, last
and only warning: if I see foul language I will simply not read anything you post.

The writer seems to mean the weapons slot 19 is where he put a torpedo device. In stock device lists,
torpedoes do have a load value. Thousands of pounds, apparently. I do not think it was assumed such
a device would be put in a land unit - so no one worried about its impact on troop count if they did?
If you are saying you actually know something, why not explain what you know in a constructive way?
I am, I admit, skeptical that you do. Both because of evidence that troop count comes from that field,
and because someone who really knows would gently explain the mystery to anyone really interested in
how things work? You seem unaware this problem has appeared before - with other devices - and it
turned out that was the cause. And you have not yet revealed what the problem may be, if it is something
else?

(in reply to Whisper)
Post #: 9
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 7:32:49 PM   
dbmsts

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 2/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

More likely, the TO&E is being adjusted to what the TO&E is set to in the editor.

You can't just change the BF, you also have to change the BF template (look for the number that is it points back to as TOE).


OK, when I change the OOB TOE do I have to add a number after the torpedo ordnance? or shall I keep it 0.

quote:

Likely "troop count" is being derived from the load value of the devices.


I checked in the editor but couldn't find any load cost for either Torpedo ordnance or aircraft ordnance. So the troop count problem still needs to be answered. Somebody must have modded the game and come across this problem.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 10
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 7:37:16 PM   
Whisper

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: LA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again
You are confused - not to mention also in violation of the terms of use of the Forums. Tthis is your first, last
and only warning: if I see foul language I will simply not read anything you post.

I am not confused. I am not in violation. You have a serious psychological problem. And a serious inability to understand how this game works and how editor values come into play. I don't know who you are, but you need some pretty extensive mental health assistence.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 11
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 10:12:51 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again
Torpedoes seem an unlikely device for HQ. Germany did field ONE station
of wire guided torpedoes ashore - in France - during WWII. And a German cruiser
was sunk by ancient torpedos based on land in Norway. But it is probably not
a common defense.


These are aerial torpedoes issued to aircraft that can carry torpedoes. They are not some kind of shore based torpedo launcher.

Bill

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(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 12
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 10:15:26 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dbmsts

quote:

More likely, the TO&E is being adjusted to what the TO&E is set to in the editor.

You can't just change the BF, you also have to change the BF template (look for the number that is it points back to as TOE).


OK, when I change the OOB TOE do I have to add a number after the torpedo ordnance? or shall I keep it 0.

quote:

Likely "troop count" is being derived from the load value of the devices.


I checked in the editor but couldn't find any load cost for either Torpedo ordnance or aircraft ordnance. So the troop count problem still needs to be answered. Somebody must have modded the game and come across this problem.


That I don't know. I'm also not sure how to go about it, just that most units in game have a 'template' that the TOE points back to.

You'd really be better off asking one of the Dev's on this, otherwise your going to be led astray.

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Post #: 13
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 10:21:35 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again
You are confused - not to mention also in violation of the terms of use of the Forums. Tthis is your first, last
and only warning: if I see foul language I will simply not read anything you post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whisper
I am not confused. I am not in violation. You have a serious psychological problem. And a serious inability to understand how this game works and how editor values come into play. I don't know who you are, but you need some pretty extensive mental health assistence.

I'm not a moderator, but both of you please keep it down.

I haven't seen any "foul language" from Whisper, but it's a better idea to deal with the facts rather than make public assumptions about someone's mental state. The former is attacking the idea, the latter is attacking the person. If somebody says something that is wrong, it's better to set the record straight and maybe state that the original information was incorrect. There is no need to get belligerent about it.

I don't want to see the moderators lock the thread and/or someone get banned from the forum.

Bill

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WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Whisper)
Post #: 14
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/3/2011 10:24:29 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dbmsts
OK, when I change the OOB TOE do I have to add a number after the torpedo ordnance? or shall I keep it 0.


How is is done in an air HQ? I'm not sure you would have to change the OOB TOE, though it probably would help.

quote:

Likely "troop count" is being derived from the load value of the devices.


quote:


I checked in the editor but couldn't find any load cost for either Torpedo ordnance or aircraft ordnance. So the troop count problem still needs to be answered. Somebody must have modded the game and come across this problem.


What slot is the torpedo ordinance device in. If it's not in slot 19, the behavior is undefined.

Bill


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WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to dbmsts)
Post #: 15
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/4/2011 3:24:06 AM   
dbmsts

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 2/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

What slot is the torpedo ordinance device in. If it's not in slot 19, the behavior is undefined.


The Topredo ordnance device is in slot #19. When I add a number to it from the editor the number of troops at that particular base increases, which in my opinion shouldn't be happening or maybe the num field treats everything as a squad or weapon...... I'm still trying to find an answer.

quote:

How is is done in an air HQ? I'm not sure you would have to change the OOB TOE, though it probably would help.


I would love to know how its done in the Air HQ.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 16
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/4/2011 3:58:38 AM   
dbmsts

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 2/18/2011
Status: offline 		I removed the TOE ID for the base force so its no longer linked to an OOB TOE. Still on the second turn I see that all of the torpedoes that I purchased in the last turn have vanished without even being used and this time there was no bombardment of the base either. So why are the torpedoes dissapearing?

(in reply to dbmsts)
Post #: 17
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/4/2011 5:09:58 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		michaelm knows the code better than I do at this point, but there may be something in there to remove torpedoes from non-HQ units.  I'd have to look at the code to be sure.

Bill


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RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/4/2011 7:35:10 AM   
dbmsts

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 2/18/2011
Status: offline 		I'll PM michealm

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Post #: 19
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/5/2011 8:40:46 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		In general, the device's presence in the unit's weapon list in the special slot activates the Torpedo Store ability.
I found out that if you actually set a value and not in the TOE, it puts the device back in the pool thinking it doesn't belong. If you add it to the TOE, it tries to take replacements of the device, which I think mucks things up.

The max and current level of torpedo storage is not held in the weapon list anyway.
In build m7, I have removed the device number from the list and TOE if present. And isolated the device from the replacement code.

In regard to the troop count, there is no load cost stated in the editor, but a default cost of '1' is given to the device regardless. This most likely accounts from the increase in the troop count in the unit.
Again, as I am clearing the number of devices out after recording it, the size of the unit will have no devices to increase the size by.

As no official sceanrio used this in a BF, I had only checked the basics that it supplied torpedoes to a/c, could add and maintain a level. Not the finer detail.



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Michael

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RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/5/2011 10:40:37 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

In general, the device's presence in the unit's weapon list in the special slot activates the Torpedo Store ability.
I found out that if you actually set a value and not in the TOE, it puts the device back in the pool thinking it doesn't belong. If you add it to the TOE, it tries to take replacements of the device, which I think mucks things up.

The max and current level of torpedo storage is not held in the weapon list anyway.
In build m7, I have removed the device number from the list and TOE if present. And isolated the device from the replacement code.

In regard to the troop count, there is no load cost stated in the editor, but a default cost of '1' is given to the device regardless. This most likely accounts from the increase in the troop count in the unit.
Again, as I am clearing the number of devices out after recording it, the size of the unit will have no devices to increase the size by.

As no official sceanrio used this in a BF, I had only checked the basics that it supplied torpedoes to a/c, could add and maintain a level. Not the finer detail.




Make sure I understand this, I've grown curious.

If you add 'Torpedo Ordnance' to slot 19 for an LCU, it will activate the ability to store and requisition Torpedoes for that unit.

If you add a value, the torpedoes go away the next turn due to having no matching item in the TOE, but if you add it to the TOE with a number, it treats it basically like an infantry squad.

Did I get it right? And from the sounds of it, it doesn't really work.

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Post #: 21
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/5/2011 2:06:20 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		The 'going away' bit has been fixed as of build 1108m7. I think it was a combination of the other fixes to TOE during 1108 that broke it as it did work originally.
Just adding the device to the LCU in slot 19 turns it on, and seems to work okay once you manually set the number to maintain in the unit.

BTW, air HQs get the ability and don't need the device added to them. The problem only related to other land units being given the ability.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 6/5/2011 2:11:22 PM >

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Michael

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Post #: 22
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/5/2011 2:14:14 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks Michael!!

Great support for the mods!!!

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Pax

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Post #: 23
RE: Adding torpedo ordnance to BFs and HQs - 6/5/2011 8:54:11 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The 'going away' bit has been fixed as of build 1108m7. I think it was a combination of the other fixes to TOE during 1108 that broke it as it did work originally.
Just adding the device to the LCU in slot 19 turns it on, and seems to work okay once you manually set the number to maintain in the unit.

BTW, air HQs get the ability and don't need the device added to them. The problem only related to other land units being given the ability.



Thanks michaelm for clearing that up for me.

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