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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario

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East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/3/2011 7:56:28 PM

USXpat

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Going ahead and posting this to see if there is any interest.

Project: May 1942 - May 1945 Scenario (Incomplete)

Turns: 1 turn = 2 weeks; possibly 1 turn = 1 week.

Map: 15 km scale. From Brest, France (W) to Baku, Russia (E); Hammerfest, Norway (N) to Qatarra Depression, Egypt (S)
--There are a few hexes to each side of these locations, slight truncation for Hammerfest; large region of NE Russia blacked out; Western Africa significantly truncated to allow for Gibraltar & possible Torch landings. Some portions of Russia and North Africa incomplete. Rivers need proofing.

Units: Divisions/Corps in the main; some brigade/regiment/chrome. Axis 1560 units; Allies 1900 units. Believe this to be nearly (95+%) comprehensive for all Axis/Allied Nations per timeframe and scale. Some composite units. All units assigned to formations, proficiencies established. Reconstructions defined, but hexes not established. Unit replacement ratios defined. Equipment ratios not defined. Only a small portion of Axis units placed for the sake of seeing of unit density would correlate to historical lines.

Golden Delicious helped substantially with the map, particularly in aligning coastlines per lat/long; as well as helped redefine a number of unit level issues. Ben deserves a lot of credit for his help in getting the scenario to this point and for helping me learn how to use the Bio Ed Equipment Editor.

Original intention of this scenario was to have it ready in 2006-7, in plenty of time for 3.4. Well, my personal situation crashed, my computer crashed and my files were corrupted. The initial development has everything, including the map, unit placements, etc., completed and was down to defining events, the eev, to's, and fine tuning of everything else. Then there's the programming of the PO, but that I consider a secondary project. I picked up the project again last summer and by December got it to its present state, doing everything again from scratch. I hit another brick wall with regards to work and so -- re-evaluated my expectations on this project.

So - at this point, I am opening the project up to the community to see if there is any interest in bringing it to completion - and/or, if nothing else make the map available for public use - with really only a nominal amount of work. The files are too large to attach (about 350kb zipped, but uploads are limited to 250kb; plus another 70kb for the equipment editor file). Anyone interested can PM me for the files or e-mail me (MWDabbs at gmail dot com).

I'm still able to contribute, but at a dramatically decreased level from what I was able to throw into it last year.

I know there's significant skepticism whether a scenario of this scope is viable - lots of issues to cover and some not well suited to the strong points of the game engine. I do think it is possible, with the improvements of 3.4+ to cover the majority of issues quite well.

Anyways - again, if anyone has the interest, let me know and I'll forward files.

Post #: 1

RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/4/2011 6:22:11 AM

sPzAbt653

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Congrats on getting that far with that project. I've got a similar one in the works at the 25km scale, been waiting for further improvements to the game engine in order to make it 'more better'.

Agreed on the skepticism, but I still think its workable. I and a few others have played mine a few times and the biggest issues are different opinions as to what could happen and would be 'unhistorical'. In a project like this, you need to have one person in charge who has the vision for the scenario, and any others assisting would have to be in general agreement or else dead end arguements would result.

As to bringing it to completion, I wouldn't have the time, but I'll gladly look at the file. My e-mail is available by clicking my name to the <<left.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/4/2011 12:52:21 PM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Agreed on the skepticism, but I still think its workable. I and a few others have played mine a few times and the biggest issues are different opinions as to what could happen and would be 'unhistorical'. In a project like this, you need to have one person in charge who has the vision for the scenario, and any others assisting would have to be in general agreement or else dead end arguements would result.

So true. A despot and some ministers is how I look at it.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/4/2011 1:04:19 PM

1_Lzard

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Mark,

I'm unlikely to finish this, but would certainly like to look it over, eh? My e-addy is lzard (at) comcast (dot) net........

Kurt

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/4/2011 5:20:21 PM

USXpat

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Thank you for the responses - I just sent files to sPzAbt653 and 1_Lzard. I'm attaching what has been done with the map to this point. (Forgot how large Russia was - more to do there still than I thought). Everyone's free to use the map - though it does have shortcomings as noted above.

Certainly, I appreciate any efforts to improve the map - though useful to make a note on the board here to avoid any duplications of effort.

I've played a lot of different wargames and TOAW is still my favorite. Have plenty of scenario notes, drafts of some of the TO's, and a number of ideas for "abstractions" that TOAW can handle well (does in other scenarios).

The #1 mechanic that does not seem to work is a fraction of Command Squads in an HQ does not result in their formations going into reorg.

Really, the development of a scenario like this depends upon momentum. There was plenty of that last year, just a lot of headwind this year. Still... when I look at TOAW, the Fire still burns...

Attachment (1)

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/6/2011 12:50:23 PM

sPzAbt653

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Thanks for sending the file Mark. The map looks nice, and there are plenty of units in the oob, but as you said, still a lot of work to do. Maybe someone will pick it up, or maybe you will one day find time to work on it again.

quote:

The #1 mechanic that does not seem to work is a fraction of Command Squads in an HQ does not result in their formations going into reorg.

I thnk all the Command Squads in a unit have to be eliminated before thee is any effect, but I don't tinker with Command Squads so I could be wrong.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/7/2011 12:59:48 AM

macgregor

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This is my kind of scenario. This would be perfect for my WW2 teamplay idea. I don't see one person moving this monster by himself even as just one side. This combined with Countdown to Infamy could complete my dream of world conquest, in TOAW at least. Of course there'd have to be a '39 start version.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 6/7/2011 1:01:52 AM >

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/18/2011 6:45:46 AM

USXpat

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Thanks to those who responded by PM and email.

I'll try plodding forward a bit more with this. Time is in short supply, owing to ramp up with work, but that may bring in the potential for additional resources yet. A long ways to go. Will update should there be any more developments.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/25/2011 7:41:04 AM

USXpat

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Just a quick note that this scenario is under active development again. Didn't anticipate being able to get to it. After taking a look at it again, it seems a bit closer to being workable than met the eye.

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Post #: 9

RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/26/2011 2:44:03 AM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

... under active development again.

Nice !! Keep us posted with progress reports and screen shots !

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/26/2011 9:32:59 AM

USXpat

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Thanks! Need several weekends like this one. Managed to keep most of my notes together so was easy to pick back up. Deployed about half of the total OOB, still 1,678 units to go... ha. Did more work on the map - mostly Russia. Set unit reconstitution, replacement rate and veteran values.

Still lots and lots to do, but it is starting to take shape and even starting to look like it's taking shape. I'll get some screen shots up next weekend.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/26/2011 4:57:55 PM

philturco

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I would be very interested in playing a 2 front game like this via PBEM.Please bring this game to us in the PBEM gaming community.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/29/2011 12:33:43 PM

USXpat

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Another quick update. All Axis units have been deployed - 1,573 units to include assorted disbands. About 600-700 more Allied units to deploy. More of the Russian map completed.

Trying to drive this home while I have another chance at it. After the Allied units are completely deployed, the next task will be to customize the unit/formation supply/readiness settings, plus some additional tweaks to TO&E. Approaching the map little by little.

Intention is to keep it fairly straight forward with the first release. Each player has "disband cadres" so they can determine their own +recon, +supply, +air transport, +sea transport and +shock events.

Relative to question via pm about naval units - the first release is simplified to historical. This will be my first time working in-depth with events, if it goes well - there's a significant list of things I'd like to try.

Anyway, getting closer and a bit faster than expected.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/29/2011 3:48:13 PM

USXpat

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Screenshot 1 - The Balkans.

The vast majority of partisan formations start in static positions, gradually activating later in 1942 through 1944, unless - an enemy moves adjacent to them or attacks them. In that case, the entire partisan formation activates. The partisan formations are comprised of units with the (I)rregular and (G)uerrilla icons. Not too many G's but enough to be dangerous if not quickly contained. Irregulars will reconstitute, guerrillas won't.

However the situation is sliced, diced or dropped, the Balkans are going to be a nightmare for the Axis. Have to have a sense of humor about it. Normally, the Balkans are a sideshow - but combine it with the potential for one of the historical plans of an allied landing in force in the Balkans, should make for plenty of excitement!

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/29/2011 4:08:35 PM

Telumar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

Relative to question via pm about naval units - the first release is simplified to historical. This will be my first time working in-depth with events, if it goes well - there's a significant list of things I'd like to try.

Anyway, getting closer and a bit faster than expected.

Maybe you're interested in reading the Evil Ed article: http://thetoawbeachhead.wordpress.com/2011/06/19/the-evil-ed-for-toaw-3-4/ - for the case you haven't come across it yet.

Don't hesitate to post event editor related questions here, there's always someone who can help.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/29/2011 5:05:53 PM

USXpat

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Thanks Telumar - very useful file. Read it last week and saved it for reference. Great job with the thetoawbeachhead.wordpress.com blog - looks great!

Think before getting into the Evil Ed, it'd be good to set up an outline of everything that needs to be covered. There were a few things I was considering as possible TO's that were best simplified. Leastwise, it sounds like it is pretty easy to go through 1k events. I hope to generate a PO that's half way decent, though - sounds like it would be best to produce a specific version of the scenario for PBEM, Axis Player and Allied Player.

heh... gonna stick to the PBEM version for now. I've already set up most of the formations with the PO in mind - to have a wide range of small, medium and large formations correlating to their objectives. That's especially the case for the Soviet formations - which can be pretty big, but in example, I've broken up say 64th Army into the main body and two operations groups (3 formations total) - so that the main body can press offensively, "hopefully" supported by units on its flanks set to a more defensive setting.

Lots of testing to do when it gets to that point though. It is really interesting to see if/how well the PO can be made to perform.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/29/2011 6:58:06 PM

macgregor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat
Relative to question via pm about naval units - the first release is simplified to historical. This will be my first time working in-depth with events, if it goes well - there's a significant list of things I'd like to try.

Anyway, getting closer and a bit faster than expected.

That's understandable. The idea I presented was 'non-trivial' to borrow a Cross-ism. Perhaps you won't mind if I attempt to edit this into the scenario. I have yet to design a scenario and this may be the perfect opportunity with a scenario I think I will really enjoy.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/29/2011 10:28:42 PM

Telumar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

Thanks Telumar - very useful file. Read it last week and saved it for reference. Great job with the thetoawbeachhead.wordpress.com blog - looks great!

Thanks. I moved from google sites as people requested the availability to comment things. This can't be done with google sites. Old site is still up though - i still need it to host certain files as wordpress doesn't allow zip files...

quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat
Think before getting into the Evil Ed, it'd be good to set up an outline of everything that needs to be covered.

Absolutely. Maybe do something in excel. This also helps in later edits of the scenario.

In the event editor you can add text/a news string to each event that doesn't show up during normal gameplay if you add 'Debug' to the text, i.e. "debug events managing the weather". If you set Overdude to Y in opart3.ini these messages will appear in the news string which is helpfull for.. ..debugging.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/30/2011 5:13:33 AM

USXpat

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MacG - sure thing. At some point, if time ever permits, I'd really like to get into isolating the causes for the anomalies frequent in naval combat. In Bio-Ed, it seemed like there are some settings not used by all the naval units that perhaps should be, where relevant. Then again, it could just be the "ant" issue and while a battleship can hardly be equated to an ant, that there aren't dozens of them may lend to the weirdness.

Telumar - ah, yeah! - I need that! Going into Evil Ed almost completely green. Have worked a little bit with it before. So, good deal - I'll map everything first in Excel - and probably set up a test copy so I can try out each new event within the first couple of turns before implementing in the master copy with the right turn/value.

I did have one question. I remember at some point long ago, there was some discussion or question whether the "random # generator" in TOAW was weighted or biased - either to the low end, or I believe the high end. Is that the case or is it a pretty good at being truly random?

Off to deploy the Russian Air Armies. And probably gonna need some more airfields...ha.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 6/30/2011 4:51:35 PM

Telumar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

MacG - sure thing. At some point, if time ever permits, I'd really like to get into isolating the causes for the anomalies frequent in naval combat. In Bio-Ed, it seemed like there are some settings not used by all the naval units that perhaps should be, where relevant. Then again, it could just be the "ant" issue and while a battleship can hardly be equated to an ant, that there aren't dozens of them may lend to the weirdness.

You're on to something with these single equipment piece units. What could be of interest for you is that the amount of disabled naval equipment going into the pool is depended on the unit proficiency - the higher the more goes into the pool instead to the ground of the sea. Naval units can evaporate if they suffer too many losses, just like land units. Sic!

. Naval units that evaporate send their non-destroyed equipment into the pool, too.

I would advice you to do the naval stuff at the very very end, this can wait. Things like the U-Boot war can't be simualted with units in TOAW anyway. Better do all other things first and then go for the naval stuff, including related events, at the end.

quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpatTelumar - ah, yeah! - I need that! Going into Evil Ed almost completely green. Have worked a little bit with it before. So, good deal - I'll map everything first in Excel - and probably set up a test copy so I can try out each new event within the first couple of turns before implementing in the master copy with the right turn/value.

You will do test scenarios, wether you plan ahead or not.. believe me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpatI did have one question. I remember at some point long ago, there was some discussion or question whether the "random # generator" in TOAW was weighted or biased - either to the low end, or I believe the high end. Is that the case or is it a pretty good at being truly random?

That's been fixed in TOAW III.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/1/2011 3:35:15 AM

USXpat

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Thank you very much, Telumar! Cool that the RNG has been fixed and really good to know about the naval unit proficiency settings. As it stands, I have at least the Axis naval units set to not "reconstitute". Really - have the same for almost any "special unit" - mobile supply points, Army level HQ's, RR Engineers, "chrome level" units, among others.

Gonna get back at it, should have the last of the Allied Forces deployed today. Will have plenty of unit tweaks to do, both on S&R and starting TO&E. Then try to wrap up the map over the weekend. If all goes well, should be into excel defining events early next week.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/3/2011 12:13:52 PM

USXpat

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Attaching screen shot of situation at the Rhzev Salient. (Still need to modify S&R for Axis).

Leaving it to both players to decide how they want to break units down - the left flank up to Velikye Luki is a bit stretched for the Axis player.

All Axis and All Allied units have been placed. Now 1584 Axis units; 1889 Allied units. Slightly behind - next task is to customize S&R. Did get a headstart on defining events in Excel though. Have organized allocation of VP by region - 999 total, but there are some other means to victory points. Namely these include the destruction of mobile supply points (representing Front/Army Group HQ's) and some "incentive packages" to promote historical efforts. V-1/2 Weapons have been aggregated to generate the potential for Axis VP's until destroyed. Not much but enough for the Allied Player to consider them high priority targets. Probably about as fancy as this first edition is going to get.

Eliminated consideration of an Axis TO to activate Turkey as a minor axis ally - considered that this would alienate and/or anger Italy (go neutral) and Bulgaria (activate early as Allied), plus prompt Russia to pull up forces from Iran and probably generate Armenian partisans. However, considering putting this into a second version and flesh out the Middle East a bit more - large section of the map that is pretty dormant. Adjust the timeline a bit for the Iraq uprising and give some potential for a Muslim Brotherhood uprising - could make for an interesting variant.

Also eliminated Axis TO to activate Sweden as a minor axis ally, giving that option to the Allies - re: DOW for the Narvik/iron mines and supplies.

So, first version is going to be pretty simple - straightforward - with historical parameters.

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< Message edited by USXpat -- 7/3/2011 12:14:04 PM >

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/9/2011 6:32:19 PM

USXpat

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Zoomed out overview of the West.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/9/2011 6:32:58 PM

USXpat

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Zoom out of the East

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/9/2011 6:34:10 PM

USXpat

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Zoom out of the South/Med

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/9/2011 6:51:40 PM

USXpat

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Tasks Remaining:

Complete last portions of map for Russia, Middle East and North Africa.
Review rivers & add airports as needed.
Define Supply Points & Reconstitute Hexes
Define Hex Ownership
Define VP Locations
Establish 1st Track/1st Location Objectives
Refine English TO&E
Define Allied Replacement Rates
More Customization of S&R
Define Events
Define Victory Conditions
Test Events

So, that's where things stand at this point to allow initial H2H playtesting. Just completed the Axis replacement rates. Mapwork is a good way to... get ready for sleep.

Work has picked up dramatically, so progress is slower. Still pressing as hard as I can to get this complete - aiming for mid-August with regards to having PBEM into a decent beta state. A couple of these items should go pretty fast; mainly expecting events, first objectives and testing to take the longest.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/9/2011 8:27:18 PM

macgregor

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I'm curious. Once this monster is finished, will you try to complete a 1939 version?

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/10/2011 7:43:35 AM

USXpat

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After this one, not sure I'd be able to commit to another project. If my daywork, such as it is, keeps going good - then it could be a possibility. When I first posted here, my employer was hanging by a thread - but after 9 months, its FDA/USDA filings were finally approved - which is a complete game changer. I need that to be sustained before committing to another project. I commissioned help on this project, so a combination of time and resources.

Really have to see how this one works first. 1942-45 is pretty convenient with respect to a lot of the minor nations being out of the picture already, less complicated event-wise. It also offsets several hundred more allied units. The one thing I don't like about 1939-45 scenarios is that the Allied Player is heavily on the receiving end for a long time... and if not played well, ends with Early Axis victory, or if played well, an Early Axis Concession, rarely a chance to turn the heat on.

I really hope for the 1942-45 to be a dynamic "do or die" for both sides from the start. Getting closer... trying to finish the map today.

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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/10/2011 8:35:35 PM

USXpat

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Any easier way to redefine hex ownership at beginning of a scenario?

Didn't find an answer in searching archives, google -- only a little something in the manual- that it's best to set up a few units and then do the automatic hex ownership.

Now... I just set all of them up - and then hit the auto hex ownership... and I'd say it got less than 50% right. I guess that I should be happy that it got at least some right. And I would guess that there's really nothing else to do but toggle every hex that needs toggled... individually, one at a time...?

Ha...

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Post #: 29

RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/11/2011 12:56:53 AM

sPzAbt653

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50% is too low, you can get it to have a higher correct percentage. Set up a few more units, then remove them after the auto-ownership is done. That way you should only have make minimal corrections.

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