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New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 2:21:14 AM   
lujab2004

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/3/2011
Status: offline 		Hi guys. I thought this game looked interesting but I was wondering how friendly it is to new players. Is the documentation helpful. I am not wanting something easy, just something possible to learn, improve at, etc.. I am sick of paying 60 bucks for x-box games that last a weekend. Wanted to take the plunge and learn a wargame. I was looking at this and War in the Pacific. I have played GG World at War. It was fun but a bit simplistic. Any suggestions?
Post #: 1
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 2:40:13 AM   
saygame

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Albuquerque, NM
Status: offline 		Buy it! Worth every penny and then some. But be advised. Your next two months will not be your own!

(in reply to lujab2004)
Post #: 2
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 2:49:57 AM   
davbaker

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Very easy to learn the basics.
You can jump right in and start clicking and attacking in a few minutes.

A lifetime to learn and master the intricacies.
Lots of stuff to get your teeth into, but not absolutely necessary to enjoy the game.

Some good short scenarios to learn the basics (the 'Road to's') before you take the plunge with the Grand Campaign.

Best Wargame I've bought to date.

(in reply to lujab2004)
Post #: 3
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 2:50:53 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1823
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Monster games don't strike me as very 'new wargamer' friendly... I don't think there is a demo for it so unfortunately you can't try it before you buy.

I'd try a few other demos of other systems, and then ask again with your opinion of the few you have tried.

I have a soft spot for the Panther system, with pauseable-continuous-time/fine-grain operational wargaming, but find these large unit count, large turn length systems a bit ~ too much clicking and waiting, with arbritary limits on placement and movement and fighting that I just find break my 'suspension of disbelief'. Other people really like them though, as there is a puzzle/chess like element of problem-solving.

(in reply to lujab2004)
Post #: 4
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 3:55:08 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		If you want a turn based game, and you think you can enjoy playing smaller scenarios until you've learned some of the basics, then this game could be for you. If you expect to buy the game and load up the Campaign expecting to jump in and not be overwhelmed, you'll probably be disappointed. Since the game comes with many short scenarios (good, balanced ones IMHO) that give you direct experience at what you'll be doing in the longer campaign, they should get you started having fun right away. Of course I'm biased, so better to listen to other purchasers of the game.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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Post #: 5
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 4:17:13 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
I have offered this to others and will do so again: if you promise to give the game a real try, I'll buy it for you, no obligations. If you like it, just repay me and you have procured a new source of endless entertainment. If not, no worries. I'm 100% confident in the ability of this game to entertain, so it really isn't a big risk for me. Those I've done this for have always paid for the game so far.

PM me if you want a shot at it.



_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 6
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 9:28:57 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		WITE is not a simple game, but it is definitely possible to learn. MMHO it is the best computer game covering the entire Eastern Front published to date. I bought it in december and I have played nothing else since. It has given me much enjoyment and very good money for my 60 bucks! That said, it might not be a game for everyone, there is a tremendous amount of detail under the hood, but it is possible to let the computer handle most of the things you don't want to micromanage.

If you are interested in the subject and like complex wargames, it is a very good game!

Edit: The documentation is helpful, but the tips here in the forum and in the Wiki are far more useful. And there is a friendly community here that can help you along. Have a look in the war room or read some of the AARs, if you haven't already.

< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/3/2011 9:31:27 AM >

_____________________________

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41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 7
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 12:16:33 PM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		X-Box in the same post as this wargame...hmmm well its a upgrade.  

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Post #: 8
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 12:50:07 PM   
Panama


Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline 		You'll be better served reading reviews in places other than the game companies forums. Here you will find fans of the game and find few unbiased opinions. If they tell you it's the best game ever run away fast.

< Message edited by Panama -- 6/3/2011 12:51:32 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 12:56:32 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Check http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/author/bruce-geryk/

Start with the first one on the bottom of the page ("War in the East: Excuse me, which train goes to Voroshilovgrad?") and read on through 14 more. This was what sold me the game, although hex and counter wargames (computer or not) are my hobby for 20 years, so we probably have different experience.

(in reply to Panama)
Post #: 10
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 2:01:04 PM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline 		If you are a new wargamer, this is not the idea place to start. I would recommend starting with Advanced Tactics Gold (also sold by Matrix), which is MUCH more newbie-friendly. Then you can try this game later.

Henri

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 11
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 2:21:36 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lujab2004

Hi guys. I thought this game looked interesting but I was wondering how friendly it is to new players. Is the documentation helpful. I am not wanting something easy, just something possible to learn, improve at, etc.. I am sick of paying 60 bucks for x-box games that last a weekend. Wanted to take the plunge and learn a wargame. I was looking at this and War in the Pacific. I have played GG World at War. It was fun but a bit simplistic. Any suggestions?


You've entered a forum for a game where the majority of the players are "grognards" and military history buffs.

WITE and WITPAE are very intensive games which require some degree of micromanagement to get the best out of the game.

Think of WITE's 1941 Grand Campaign that's IIRC 225 turns, a turn a day makes the game last a looong time.

WITPAE's 4 year GC and one day turns means you could be playing for 4 years PBEM.

Even in singleplayer these games are difficult to play quickly. Plus the instant gratification just isn't there in WITPAE. It's available in WITE, but only after you have shoved counters for hours.

(in reply to lujab2004)
Post #: 12
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/3/2011 10:53:43 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I have offered this to others and will do so again: if you promise to give the game a real try, I'll buy it for you, no obligations. If you like it, just repay me and you have procured a new source of endless entertainment. If not, no worries. I'm 100% confident in the ability of this game to entertain, so it really isn't a big risk for me. Those I've done this for have always paid for the game so far.

PM me if you want a shot at it.



quote:

lujab2004


lujab2004, Mynok's offer is one you should not pass on. The game is fantastic, and you will happily repay Mynok.

_____________________________

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 13
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 12:17:26 AM   
lujab2004

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/3/2011
Status: offline 		Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.

(in reply to parusski)
Post #: 14
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 12:55:14 AM   
Panama


Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lujab2004

Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.



For the price of WitE you can buy them both.

But seriously, WitE is a good game and the design team is top notch so if you can afford the tag it's worth it.

I can't comment on TOAW because it's one of my favorite games. Biased and all that. There are a lot of scenarios. There are some TOAW haters here so watch out for their opines.

_____________________________


(in reply to lujab2004)
Post #: 15
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 1:34:22 AM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lujab2004

Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.



Advanced tactics is (as they say) a game that is easy to learn and difficult to master.You can start with some of the older scenarios from the original AT, where oil and materials do not figure, and you can get a feeling for a large WW2 scenario by playing one of the WaW scenarios (the ones for AT Gold that have oil are human-only).

WiTE is a classic game, but along with WitP-AE is by far the most complex wargame you can buy. You can probably count on one hand the people who have mastered all aspects of the game. For example, I have not yet even a minimum understanding of managing the air war (you can leave it to the AI), and consider some of the mechanics of the game just a bit more complex than Quantum field theory...

Henri

(in reply to lujab2004)
Post #: 16
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 7:36:17 AM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline 		Considering your past experience, WITP is not for you and WITE might still be a way too steep a learning curve.

I will rather go for the decisive battle of world war II (Kharkov, Accross the dnepr...) of course they are shorts scenarios but they are good for learning the basic of wargame. You have battlefild Academy that is nice in my opinion if you want to try tactical game.

How much I like WITE there is a risk that you are overhelmed with detail you don't realise the use (thought you can ignore some of them).

quote:

Wow, thanks for the replies. This place seems like a great community. OK, last question before I take the plunge. What are thoughts on Operational AoW 3 and Advanced Tactics (suggested by henri51) as opposed to WiTE?  OAW seems like it has a lot of variety. Any thoughts on fun factor, ease of use, learning curve,  etc. Today was my last day of woork for 2 1/2 months. Being a teacher has its perks! I am looking for a new hobby.


I like OAW, it is a good step before going to Wite as the battle system use a similar philosophy without too much details. The impulse system is a bit special (you plan attack that take a portion of the turn, then you can move again and attack according to time left). I like it for small scenario, some don't. The good point is that there are LOTS of scenarios.

I don't have enough experience of advance tactics though it is good for what I have played of it. I would say more complex than OAW but closer in philosophy to WITE so good. They have production and multiplayer (even for one side) which is a plus. This is a moddable game so you will find scenario for it. I will go with Henri51 opinion by the way.


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Best regards

Skanvak

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 17
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 7:51:57 AM   
saintsup

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: La Celle Saint-Clouud
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skanvak

I will rather go for the decisive battle of world war II (Kharkov, Accross the dnepr...) of course they are shorts scenarios but they are good for learning the basic of wargame.


These are good semi-difficult and classical wargames to start. Ardennes and Normandy of the same collection are good too.

(in reply to Skanvak)
Post #: 18
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 3:15:04 PM   
lujab2004

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 6/3/2011
Status: offline 		So Battles in Normandy is a good starting place. I am a HUGE D-Day buff so it is definately a good fit in that respect. Is it a good place to start out as far as wargaming as a hobby is concerned? I am trying to base my purchase on the concept of "The best wargame is the one you will play" but I want something that will allow me to learn and move on to more complex games. I do feel that WITP and WITE might be a bit much at this point.

(in reply to saintsup)
Post #: 19
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 7:53:56 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		War is costly, stressful hypocritical, bloody, brutal, long, loud, dirty ...

If you want to play a war game, then this game should simulate it all.

Beginner friendly?
It's like anything else in the world if you like War Gary Grigsby's in the East, if you fall in love, if your interests and ambitions are aroused - then you will learn easy (you should know as a teacher!) and it could bring you much priceless joy.

If you fall in Gary Grigsby's War in the East, you will teach your students to cut the hair, to button up the uniform and stand in ranks!

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that you will like the game.
But I would say in my experience, that only 1 of about 40 buyers regret the purchase.

Most games, matrix offers are more than just games.
You become a member of a great, a helpful and friendly community.

The community will help you 24/7 - and honestly - you will need this help!

< Message edited by Templer -- 6/4/2011 11:39:50 PM >

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Post #: 20
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/4/2011 11:12:48 PM   
traemyn

 

Posts: 135
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		To OP: I share some of your experience, or lack thereof, in this genre and I would recommend you get WiTE. Previous to WiTE, the only war game of this type I had played was GG WaW and High Command: Europe 1939-1945 (screenshot) and I have had no problem learning WiTE and am still having a blast playing it!

< Message edited by traemyn -- 6/4/2011 11:17:04 PM >

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 21
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/5/2011 12:15:04 AM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline 		Another Matrix game much simpler than WitE is Commander Europe at War, that has just had a major player-made upgrade. CEAW covers all of the European WW2, so you have subs, navies and convoys to take into account, not to mention France and North Africa and other things. But it is much easier to learn and has less micro-management than WitE. Although CEAW covers a wider war, it is not a monster game like WitE.

For a newcomer to wargaming, WitE has two things that could turn off a newcomer:1) its mind-boggling complexity; 2) the size of the game and the amount of micromanagement. So here is what I recommend: if cost is not an issue, buy WitE and give it a shot, and if it turns out to be too much for you, get Advanced Tactics or CEAW or Battlefront's Strategic Command (which is about the same scale as CEAW). If cost IS an issue, start off by buying one of the simpler games then later, if the idea of a monster game does not put you off, get WitE when you are more comfortable with the size.

There is another thing that could hinder a newcomer: when you play against the AI, you do not get to see the AI moves except for the recon and bombings phases, and all you get to see is the result, that is the changed map. Although you can see the locations of battles you do not get the education of watching the enemy moves that you get in other wargames.Experienced players can guess what the enemy did, but it could be confusing for a newbie to find some of your units missing and enemy dispositions changed.

Having said this, I think that EVERY wargamer should buy WitE just to encourage what is one of the best wargames of all time. Of course if this means starving your family or your dog, then maybe wait a bit...

Henri

(in reply to traemyn)
Post #: 22
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/5/2011 7:04:01 AM   
emcgman


Posts: 185
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		Mainly the way I look at the wargames is there are 2 main different types. Maybe this will help you decide. Before I state this, however, I want to say that all the games mentioned above are awesome.

But here's the main difference as I see them.

There are games like Advanced Tactics and WITE, which include production and research. And supply has to be more micromanaged.

Then there are the games like Kharkov, Across The Dnepr, and The Operational Art of War, which are purely strategic and tactical and do not include production or research. These games play more like a game of chess on steroids.

So please understand the difference before you buy wargames.

Hopefully, you have enough of a budget to try at least 1 of each, because they're all good as I say.

I believe there is demo of Battles in Normandy, or the original Korsun Pocket, might have to visit SSG site, link is at top of respective forum page.

Hope this helps.

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 23
RE: New Wargamer Friendly? - 6/5/2011 8:57:44 PM   
Krec


Posts: 548
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		This game is so easy to play and only gets better the more you play and start getting deeper into it. the beauty is you can play the smaller scenarios and get the feel without going into the mega monster campaigns.

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Post #: 24
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