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'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/9/2011 7:21:28 AM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		Distant Worlds- have most recent version. Do not have the expansion.

I've been playing a sandbox mode game. 700 stars size, no pirates, bugs, or other empires. Manually controlling 1 exploration ship. Have 1 auto construction ship. Have all settings set to manual except for colonies which is set to 'suggest'. My empire(Securan) stopped suggesting new colonies at 33 colonies. Interesting, happens to be the default percentage of colony control for a game win condition. I enabled that condition and changed the value to 100%, then disabled the setting. Starting a new game to see if I can now pass count 33. If I go past 33 and find that the 'suggest' stops at 100 colonies, then we'll know where to look for a bug I guess.

Anyone else ran into this? I did a search of the forums before postiing.

Thanks,

UPDATE:
I did the above. New game with the win condition set to 100% colonies and the setting disabled. Definatlely a bug here. My Empire stopped 'suggesting' colonies at 10. So the bug is using two digits of the 'win' condition to stop the 'suggest colonies' feature? Gonna try new game with the 'win condition for colonies' set to 99% and disabled so that i'm in sandbox. Should be able to play on past the 33 from the first game. I will definitely update this post again if I make it to colony no. 34 using the 99 setting.

Also observed in second game that if you hit the stop point changing the 'suggest' to 'fully automate' does not fire up colonization. I am however able to manually go past the stop point.

Another bug I think I observed is that the 'colony ships' always come from the home planet when being 'suggested'. Of course it will be that way at the beginning because a planet needs 100m population to build a colony ship. I will verify that in the 99 setting game. When using the 'Expansion planner' the ships come from the nearest 100m planet and get spread amongst them to speed things up if you queue multiple colonies at once.

ANOTHER UPDATE:
The '99' setting didn't work out. The 'suggested colonies' stopped working at 24 colonies. No clue. I give up, I"ll just manually control the colonization I guess.

Thanks for your interest,

< Message edited by Josral -- 6/10/2011 12:43:39 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/9/2011 8:18:28 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Hi Josral and welcome to the forum.
No, never heard of anyone else hitting or testing this so we're all behind you on this one

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(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 2
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/10/2011 4:10:34 PM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		ANOTHER UPDATE:(and bump to post,hehe)

I started another game and watched for when the 'Suggest colonies' function breaks. Spotted it. When you discover colonies outside the fuel range of a colony ship the 'Suggest new colonies' function breaks. If you order some colony ships to be produced then the 'suggest colony' will work with the ships you produced for potential colonies in fuel range. After I found some potential colonies out of fuel range, breaking the 'suggest colony' feature. I waited for a colony in range of those to reach the required 100m to see if that would fix it. Nope. I then manually took care of those two colonies and any outstanding colonies then found two more colonies within fuel range of the Capital to see if 'suggest colony' would kick back in. No dice. The function just plain breaks when you find colonies outside of the fuel range. I'm gonna start another game and see if the auto-colonize breaks under the same circumstance.

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 3
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/10/2011 4:27:52 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Great investigation there, it's like a mini technical aar like those done in the early days of the game. Classsic stuff you've got here, I applaud thee

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Post #: 4
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/10/2011 4:34:02 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline 		When I played I left colonising on automatic. No suggestions etc.

Ships would be built and sent to colonise anywhere.

It was not a perfect system but worked well enough.

The AI is programmed to generally not colonise planets under 50% quality, so it always makes a good choice.

If you left colonising on auto you would have no problems.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 5
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/10/2011 6:15:22 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Which brings up an interesting question: isnt't the AI on auto implementing what the AI on "recommend" suggests? The behavior should be the same, than maybe on auto the problem is not visible.
Starting the same game with the AI first on auto and then on suggest (or the other way around) should clarify this. I always played on manual so I have no prior experience on this.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to cookie monster)
Post #: 6
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/10/2011 7:08:38 PM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		ANOTHER UPDATE:

Just ran two more games, looking to find a colony outside the fuel radius. 1 game on auto-colonize and 1 on 'suggest'. Both setteled the colony outside the fuel range. Confusing. The only other condition that has been present is maps from ruins. In the previous post, the break I observed happened when I got maps of the surrounding area that included potential colonies. And if I remember correctly the 'broken game' that started this post had colonies provided by maps as well. So I'm narrowing down something. Just don't know what. hehe. How would I test to see if the 'maps' from ruins or other sources is the 'source' of the break? I guess I can run a game and not do any 'investigates'. With a sandbox without any enemies I can do without advantages from ruins, etc. So i'll run a game and leave all 'investigates' alone and see how things go and post the result of the test.

I'm running out of conditions to check, lol.

Playing a game with 'suggest' up to 33 colonies then have it break is nerve wracking. A game break of 33, 10, and 24 so far. I'm going to figure out how to get to a count of 34 without a 'break'. In all those cases I was able to continue with manual colony management though.

Again, thanks for your attention, and taking the time to 'listen'

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 7
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/10/2011 7:28:17 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Np, I also enjoy tests like this; we get to know the game better. The only thing that could help you here that I can think off is that systems known via discovered maps are still not fully known until a scout gets there; so anything changes if you send a scout to those systems after getting the maps?

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 8
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 12:19:58 AM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

Np, I also enjoy tests like this; we get to know the game better. The only thing that could help you here that I can think off is that systems known via discovered maps are still not fully known until a scout gets there; so anything changes if you send a scout to those systems after getting the maps?



Ok, thanks. Will keep that in mind. I did not go scout those systems, but that does not explain why the 'suggest colony' did not work for two systems closer to 'home'. Hmm... If I remember correctly, the 'suggest' recommended the 'mapped' colonies in the 'fuel' range and did not suggest the ones outside of it, and did not do any more suggesting after that point.

I'm not far enough into my current game to give my 'professional' opinion as to whether the cause is related to the maps.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 9
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 3:50:37 AM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Josral


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

Np, I also enjoy tests like this; we get to know the game better. The only thing that could help you here that I can think off is that systems known via discovered maps are still not fully known until a scout gets there; so anything changes if you send a scout to those systems after getting the maps?



Ok, thanks. Will keep that in mind. I did not go scout those systems, but that does not explain why the 'suggest colony' did not work for two systems closer to 'home'. Hmm... If I remember correctly, the 'suggest' recommended the 'mapped' colonies in the 'fuel' range and did not suggest the ones outside of it, and did not do any more suggesting after that point.

I'm not far enough into my current game to give my 'professional' opinion as to whether the cause is related to the maps.



Ok just had the 'suggest' break after 7 conlonies. I did encounter 3 ruins. I got close enough to deal with the pop-up on two of them. Leaving the 1st alone did not affect me, I was able to set up another colony after it. I was able to dodge the other 2 and just do a fly-by but one of my auto-constructors went to the planet of the 3rd one so I had to 'leave ruins alone' on that one. The very next colony I found after that did not get a 'suggest' and turning on 'fully-automate' does nothing either. I went and checked that 3rd one and sure enough there was a map as part of it. I also sent my exploration ship to all the sites with potential colonies that opened up, but no go on activating the 'suggest' feature. So the current status in my opinion is that something with an area map breaks the 'suggest colony' option and the 'automate' along with it. If there is no option to disable ruins in game set up i'll see if I can erase them with the editor before an encounter happens and see if that works as a work-around.

my next test would be to run a 'fully automate' on colonization and go looking for maps to see if it breaks. my guess is it won't break 'fully auto-mate' or their would have been tons of posts about broken colonization.

What is the next step? the matrix support page said to post in the forums. Who gets a dev or code guy to look at the area map effect on the 'suggest colony' function?

Thanks again,

UPDATE:

I have started a game and have erased 3 ruins so far. Don't know if any of those had maps attached, But things are working atm. Will post after more play time.

< Message edited by Josral -- 6/11/2011 7:08:14 AM >

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 10
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 7:36:12 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		great idea with erasing the ruins in the editor, you may not consider yourself 'professional' enough atm but on this one you're our point man. I think Elliot's too busy with the expansion atm but when he'll descend again here he'll surely enjoy your investigation.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 11
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 11:02:06 AM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		Another thought I've had that I can try is to turn on 'fully automate' when i'm in a system with a ruin until after the investigation has been done then switch back to 'suggest' and see if that prevents the break. Like I said in a previous post, since there aren't tons of broken colonization threads present, I assume it doesn't break when the default of 'fully automate' is on. But something is definitely breaking the 'suggest' and the 'fully automate' along with it. Although if I manually produce colony ships after the break the 'suggest' will work with those, but won't offer to build a colony ship. It's weird. I guess all this game behavior info will help to narrow down the spot to look in the coding.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 12
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 11:12:57 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		It will definitly do that, the weirder it gets the easier should be to determine the actual portion of code that fails. It's weird for us as we don't know the code but for Elliot it should be fairly clear.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 13
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 11:40:32 AM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		The current test of erasing the ruins will let us know if entrance to a system with a ruin is the bug point or interaction with the ruin. But the previous test does show that any interaction with a ruin with area map info that includes potential colonies breaks the offer to build a colony ship part of the 'suggest' function and breaks the automate function along with it. After i've erased a good 20 or 30 ruins and things still work using 'suggest' it would be safe enough to think of the 'interact' as the break point.

Also, if i'm the 'point man' would I get the honor of testing the bug fix? hehe..

< Message edited by Josral -- 6/11/2011 12:09:09 PM >

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 14
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 4:43:02 PM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		I've discovered another possible breaking condition. I'm still on the 'erase' game and am broken. Haven't erased any more than the mentioned 3 ruins. i've colonized since then. I've encountered and acquired some ships and star bases which point to at least 3 spots out in space. But the new condition is that I have several 100m + colonies now. I have discovered 3 potential colonies that would pull their colony ships from planets other than the home planet. The 'suggest' may break when it has to pull from somewhere other than the home planet. I can try moving the Capital to the closest 100m+ planet and see if things start up.

Another thing I am wondering is why this bug hasn't surfaced before now(and why me?). Has anyone else tried playing a no enemies game before? Could the lack of enemies be a contributing factor/pre-condition to the bug?

Except for the prescence of other 100m+ colonies closer to the recently discovered potential colonies, i'm not seeing any other possible cause. Will go back into the game and move the Capital and see what occurs. I think that nothing will occur since a break has occured.

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 15
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 4:51:12 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		I think none of us observed this before because no one looked 'till now. Since I don't automate anything I had no chance to observe it.
Moving the capital is another good test, maybe you can do this before the break occurs to test it properly. Lastly, I don't think it's related to the lack of enemies but again this can also be tested; and even if it's so than it's not a big problem as having a game without enemies is only half the fun

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...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 16
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 5:29:25 PM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		Relocating the capital didn't start things back up. I ordered 3 colony ships at my Capital after moving it back and as the 'spare' colony ships were detected in the empire the 'suggest' function worked on those and asked to send them out to colonize. So the 'production' of colony ships is what is breaking in the 'suggest' function. Weird, I know.

I'm tired of the bug condition hunt for now so am going to spend some time playing for enjoyment. I'll just be sure to have some extra colony ships on hand so the colonizing can go on. I removed the enemies so that I can enjoy running around hunting for resources and potential colonies with a single exploration ship that I pilot. I don't want to run around in fear of losing my life, lol. The exploding starbases and such is enough danger at the moment, hehe.

I'm losing sleep playing without enemies so I am enjoying it. I bought a sea based colonizing and resource management game and lost sleep on it too with removal of the opponents. Just wanted a space environment to work in. I've had this game installed for a while so recently got back on it for the environment. Matter of taste I guess. I get plenty of combat in other games, so i'm not hurting any.

Will post some more when I resume the 'condition' hunt...

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 17
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/11/2011 5:37:08 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Actually, I play the exact type of game both here and in other games as well....I'm big on exploration, research and tech and I fight only when I don't have other options.
That's why I'm actually back in SR2 atm, waiting for the new expansion here. Safe travels to you in the black, my friend.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

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Post #: 18
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/12/2011 6:38:07 AM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		I've had some sleep. Hehe, changes the mood a bit.

Started another game with autocolonize on. While initiating my search for a ruin with an area map I got the idea to use the editor to speed things up a bit. I placed a ruin in a system once i got to it and got an area map on the first try. The 'autocolonize' worked with the 1 colony that appeared with the info.

I'm going to clean up the initial post(but not at this moment) to get all the 'finds' in it because i know that us forum readers don't like to read a whole post.

The main purpose of this thread is to report the existence of a bug and not to do any complaining about the prescence of it. Providing as much info about the conditions under which the break of the 'suggest' feature occurs seems to be the thing to do to help out.

Current status:

'Suggest' breaks when an interaction with a ruin that has area info that includes potential colony info. Doesn't matter if you choose to leave the ruins alone. it still breaks.
"Suggest' breaks when another planet in your empire has the 100m+ pre-requirement to produce colony ships and is the closest planet to the new 'potential' colony.
It is the offer to 'build a new colony ship' that is breaking, because if you create some colony ships anywhere in your empire after the break occurs the 'Suggest' will work with those spare colony shiips.
The autocolonize feature breaks right along with the break in the 'Suggest' feature.

My next test will be to start with some pirates around and see if the break conditions still exist. I'll probably go to a new system and place a ruin to get an area map and see what happens.
The next test would be to start with another empire around and see if the break still occurs. Just want to know if 'lack' of enemies is a factor.

Got any recommendations for other testing conditions?

I will return hehe,

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 19
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/12/2011 10:46:54 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		I would also start a game with all the enemies, first close by then farther away to see if that influences the results.
I would also not clean the thread as every bit of info is good when we're investigating a bug and Elliot can spark an idea by reading something we might find not relevant.


_____________________________

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Post #: 20
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/14/2011 12:36:29 AM   
Josral

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/9/2011
Status: offline 		Ok going to take your advice and play a proper 'enemy' game to see if both of the auto-colonize features are working in that environment then start removing the enemy types and see what happens. Reason is., I was just playing a for fun sandbox, no enemies, with 'auto-colonize', and found the Securan independent and colonized it. Found some potential colonies within it's 'territory' range and the auto-colonize didn't do any colonizing, so i've got 3 colonies to manually colonize. So for a 'pleasure' game i'm going to just have to do colonizing manually.

But test wise will be done with all types of 'enemy' to start with. It will be odd to find that some combo of 'other empires', 'pirates', or 'space creatures' is necessary for the colonize functions to work properly.

< Message edited by Josral -- 6/14/2011 12:44:22 AM >

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 21
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/14/2011 6:56:35 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		That would be strange indeed....and very improbable. Just to make sure we've covered all the bases, during all the tests you monitor also the fuel avaialble (not reserved) in storage in each colony? lack of fuel might make some areas off limits for colonization...at least until the fuel is available again.
We can check this by adding or removing fuel with the editor anc checking the impact.
Either way, have fun testing and playing.

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Josral)
Post #: 22
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/16/2011 10:29:19 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		Nice Catch on this one too.

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Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 23
RE: 'Suggest new colonies' stopped at 33 colonies - 6/17/2011 8:21:52 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		Hmm, no feedback from him lately....real life must habe caught up with him

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Post #: 24
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