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Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 1:44:37 PM

Red Prince

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This originated in the When? thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

I can't speak for everyone, but I find myself responding most to visual samples of the game. Could there be some way to start a thread where playtesters could document anything really, but include pics of the game?

In response to this request, and as an update to the occassional reports I've been posting, I've decided to start up this thread.

According to the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) we sign before being brought in to begin testing, each of us is allowed to post up to 4 images from the game per month, subject to Steve's approval, in the open forums.

I have received his approval to post as many Unit File images as I like in the Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land thread (sorry for the lack of recent updates -- I've been putting my time into other things recently). I am going to assume his approval to post the image below, may he strike me down if I am wrong, so that I can give you a reference for the update I'd like to offer. (I altered the color of the sea areas slightly, to make the CW territory stand out a bit more, and take sole responsibility for that act)

This is a composite screenshot (I have a smallish screen) of the World Map, as of May-June 1941.

I explained in the When? thread that I was working on Conquest, Liberation, and Surrender tests, and that I was trying to push through to the 2-3 year mark of a Global War scenario. This was in response to a question about how far along in the game the beta-testers had gotten, as well as what kinds of things we were working on. Well, I finally did get to the two-year mark (but this is a better screenshot for my purposes).

As you can see, I went all-out from the start of the game. My aim was to get the USA into the war as early as humanly possible, while conquering most of the world with the Axis Powers. This game ran with a conquered France instead of Vichy, a '40 Barbarossa, Close the Med, and even Sea Lion. Japan was allowed to take over the Pacific, and even grabbed Hawaii. Most of the Minors were aligned, if the rules allowed for it, or conquered. I even went as far as to establish Italy in the Caribbean and footholds for both Japan and Germany on the USA mainland.

My purpose in all of this was to set up as many situatuions as I could that would test the boundaries of the program's ability to deal with changing control of nations from one Major Power to another. Many of those situations are extremely unlikely to show up in any real game, but the program needs to be able to handle them if they do. (How often will Germany control the Bahamas, do you think?)

In the process of testing, I managed to "break" the program a number of times (i.e, I gave it a situation it was not designed to take into account), and Steve fixed most of these items in a day or two. One of the problems we face as testers, and Steve faces in coding, is that a game this complex has so many variables that it is nearly impossible to take everything into account. The best we can do is try anything we can think up. If it works, great. If not, we pass it along to the guru of code

Of primary importance for my tests was the ability to conquer and then liberate Major Powers. After all, if you can't neutralize the enemy, why bother to play?

For the most part, this worked out wonderfully. The jumble of color you see in the UK is due to my successful attempt to liberate it using units from each of the three surviving Allies (CW, France, USA). The green streak in India is a force from the USA which has taken Delhi. There is still trouble in France, but my uneducated guess is that it is related to other bugs involving the breakdown of France into Vichy and Free France. That will get more testing later on.

I had thought to give you details about who did what to whom, but this post is getting long as it is. I'm happy to answer any questions you have, and I'll try to do it in a timely fashion.

-Aaron

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 6/15/2011 2:24:25 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 4:24:34 PM

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Hi Aaron very nice map keep up the good work, one question if you are allowed to answer can you show us the size of the actual combat map? Will it fill the whole screen? My complaint with ADG's WIF computer game is that the battle map is way too small, when you use zoom - and + you can see more of the map but you can hardly see the units when you get to the highest zoom, I realize that they have to show other windows with much needed information in them but I am not thrilled with how they do it. I guess I am asking can you or Steve show a full battle screen with all its side bars. Thank you in advance.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 6/15/2011 4:26:27 PM >

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 2

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 4:35:22 PM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Hi Aaron very nice map keep up the good work, one question if you are allowed to answer can you show us the size of the actual combat map? Will it fill the whole screen? My complaint with ADG's WIF computer game is that the battle map is way too small, when you use zoom - and + you can see more of the map but you can hardly see the units when you get to the highest zoom, I realize that they have to show other windows with much needed information in them but I am not thrilled with how they do it. I guess I am asking can you or Steve show a full battle screen with all its side bars. Thank you in advance.

Bo

Well, I once pieced together a map of the European Theatre at Zoom Level 5 (8 being max), and it is an 18.2 MB jpg with dimensions of 4783 x 3906. I'm not sure what I can do for you, but I'll try to think of something. At the lowest zoom, the whole detailed map doesn't fit on my screen. Maybe I can piece together one that will come in at less than 500 kb (posting limit), but it might be extremely degraded in quality. I'll look into it.
-----
Edit: Part of the solution is built in with MWiF. You will have the ability to set up the layout of what is displayed, and you can use 2 (or more?) monitors with it. That allows one to be dedicated to the detailed map, while all other forms can be set up on the other monitor.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 6/15/2011 4:43:09 PM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 3

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 8:12:40 PM

Red Prince

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Bo,

I tried, but the best I could do was to get all of Europe in a single screen (about 1200 x 700) at the most distant Zoom Level. That created a 1.1 MB jpg which I could only get down under 500 kb by degrading the image quality by 10% or more. Things are small enough at that zoom, anyway. I generally work at Zoom Level 4. That lets me see pretty much all of a Germany-sized nation. However, part of the Screen Layout files that you can create (some will come with the release, but everyone likes to fiddle with these things) allow you to "remember" screen locations and zoom levels (among other things). These can be named anything you want, so you can quickly navigate around the map.

-Aaron

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 4

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 8:36:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Bo,

I tried, but the best I could do was to get all of Europe in a single screen (about 1200 x 700) at the most distant Zoom Level. That created a 1.1 MB jpg which I could only get down under 500 kb by degrading the image quality by 10% or more. Things are small enough at that zoom, anyway. I generally work at Zoom Level 4. That lets me see pretty much all of a Germany-sized nation. However, part of the Screen Layout files that you can create (some will come with the release, but everyone likes to fiddle with these things) allow you to "remember" screen locations and zoom levels (among other things). These can be named anything you want, so you can quickly navigate around the map.

-Aaron

I think I asked the question wrong Aaron, Is it possible to show an actual battle screen with the interface surrounding the screen to show all of us what it will look like or does that come under the SECRET ACTS act

that all you beta testers signed

I am trying to get a feel for the interface and the scope of what will be shown on the main battle map, and I hope it will be much better done than WIF computer by ADG.

Bo

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 5

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 8:46:04 PM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Bo,

I tried, but the best I could do was to get all of Europe in a single screen (about 1200 x 700) at the most distant Zoom Level. That created a 1.1 MB jpg which I could only get down under 500 kb by degrading the image quality by 10% or more. Things are small enough at that zoom, anyway. I generally work at Zoom Level 4. That lets me see pretty much all of a Germany-sized nation. However, part of the Screen Layout files that you can create (some will come with the release, but everyone likes to fiddle with these things) allow you to "remember" screen locations and zoom levels (among other things). These can be named anything you want, so you can quickly navigate around the map.

-Aaron

I think I asked the question wrong Aaron, Is it possible to show an actual battle screen with the interface surrounding the screen to show all of us what it will look like or does that come under the SECRET ACTS act that all you beta testers signedI am trying to get a feel for the interface and the scope of what will be shown on the main battle map, and I hope it will be much better done than WIF computer by ADG.

Bo

Ah! I see. My mistake. It can be done, but I'll have to leave this one up to Steve's discretion.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 6

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 10:10:39 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Bo,

I tried, but the best I could do was to get all of Europe in a single screen (about 1200 x 700) at the most distant Zoom Level. That created a 1.1 MB jpg which I could only get down under 500 kb by degrading the image quality by 10% or more. Things are small enough at that zoom, anyway. I generally work at Zoom Level 4. That lets me see pretty much all of a Germany-sized nation. However, part of the Screen Layout files that you can create (some will come with the release, but everyone likes to fiddle with these things) allow you to "remember" screen locations and zoom levels (among other things). These can be named anything you want, so you can quickly navigate around the map.

-Aaron

I think I asked the question wrong Aaron, Is it possible to show an actual battle screen with the interface surrounding the screen to show all of us what it will look like or does that come under the SECRET ACTS act that all you beta testers signedI am trying to get a feel for the interface and the scope of what will be shown on the main battle map, and I hope it will be much better done than WIF computer by ADG.

Bo

One thing I changed from CWIF was to modify the fundamental layout of the game on the screen. CWIF essentially uses a main form that is a rectangle and all the other forms are constrained to be within its borders. I have shrunk the main form to as small a rectangle as possible while simultaneously freely all the other forms from any contraints as to where they appear on your screen(s). So you could use 3 monitors and put the detailed map on one, the global map with the main form on another and use the 3rd monitor for various informative forms (e.g., naval review details, sequence of play, production planning, etc.).

Here is a screen shot of the detailed map occupying an entire 1920 by 1024 monitor. My second monitor has other stuff displayed. This is zoom level 4.

EDIT: Theme Engine enables forms to be "rolled up" which reduces them to the thin strip you see at the top of this form. I find that more convenient than Windows' Minimize function since minimize places the icon in a corner somewhere and it's hard to find when you want to restore the form. Roll up/down is easier to work with since the form doesn't 'automatically' move. It just stays where it is. You can then reposition the thin strip where ever is most convenient for you.

[I detest 'automatic' program decisions; they rarely are what I want to have happen.]

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 6/15/2011 10:19:06 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 10:38:16 PM

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Map looks great Steve, if you put a cursor over a group of units and you want to see the make up of the units in that hex where will that show? in WIF computer it takes up a huge portion on the bottom of the screen which makes my main map very inadequate or at least for me, I know dumb question, is this an actual map of a beta battle by the play testers?

Bo

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 8

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/15/2011 10:58:26 PM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Map looks great Steve, if you put a cursor over a group of units and you want to see the make up of the units in that hex where will that show? in WIF computer it takes up a huge portion on the bottom of the screen which makes my main map very inadequate or at least for me, I know dumb question, is this an actual map of a beta battle by the play testers?

Bo

You have the option to turn Flyouts on or off. These are pop-ups similar to roll-over help text messages in other programs, but on steroids. They allow you to view up to 9 units in a hex, with multiple "pages" if there are more than 9 in the hex. I almost always keep them on. They are extremely useful, and they almost never get in my way. This is an example at actual size:

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 9

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/16/2011 1:08:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Map looks great Steve, if you put a cursor over a group of units and you want to see the make up of the units in that hex where will that show? in WIF computer it takes up a huge portion on the bottom of the screen which makes my main map very inadequate or at least for me, I know dumb question, is this an actual map of a beta battle by the play testers?

Bo

You have the option to turn Flyouts on or off. These are pop-ups similar to roll-over help text messages in other programs, but on steroids. They allow you to view up to 9 units in a hex, with multiple "pages" if there are more than 9 in the hex. I almost always keep them on. They are extremely useful, and they almost never get in my way. This is an example at actual size:

Steroids?

sometimes I think your smoking steroids

ok I would assume that the odds quotations will also be on flyouts yes no maybe. Well from the look of things I would say we are all set to go

sooooooooooooooon!

Bo

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Post #: 10

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/16/2011 3:57:14 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Map looks great Steve, if you put a cursor over a group of units and you want to see the make up of the units in that hex where will that show? in WIF computer it takes up a huge portion on the bottom of the screen which makes my main map very inadequate or at least for me, I know dumb question, is this an actual map of a beta battle by the play testers?

Bo

You have the option to turn Flyouts on or off. These are pop-ups similar to roll-over help text messages in other programs, but on steroids. They allow you to view up to 9 units in a hex, with multiple "pages" if there are more than 9 in the hex. I almost always keep them on. They are extremely useful, and they almost never get in my way. This is an example at actual size:

Steroids? sometimes I think your smoking steroidsok I would assume that the odds quotations will also be on flyouts yes no maybe. Well from the look of things I would say we are all set to go sooooooooooooooon!

Bo

Land combat attack odds are shown at the bottom of the main form (in a message panel) once a land combat has been declared. As more units are included in the attack, the odds update. The Land Combat Declaration phase is one where all 'moves' can be undone. So you can set up several attacks to see what they look like and then delete any that you find dubious.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 11

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/24/2011 2:55:56 AM

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Looking at the map Steve posted, I was wondering is this map current or an older earlier version? The reason I ask is because I know Steve will use round colored circles designating what mode the combat unit is in like out of supply, disorganized etc. The only unit I see with those symbols if that's what they are is the German 4-4 corp unit on the coast near Cherbourg with what looks like an yellow and an orange circle, but no other units German or Allied have anything that looks like that units circles, is there something I am missing here, please advise.

Bo

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 12

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/24/2011 3:11:51 AM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Looking at the map Steve posted, I was wondering is this map current or an older earlier version? The reason I ask is because I know Steve will use round colored circles designating what mode the combat unit is in like out of supply, disorganized etc. The only unit I see with those symbols if that's what they are is the German 4-4 corp unit on the coast near Cherbourg with what looks like an yellow and an orange circle, but no other units German or Allied have anything that looks like that units circles, is there something I am missing here, please advise.

Bo

If you check out the German HQs in the east, you'll see a few more. It's current, but if a unit has no special status it doesn't show a circle. The orange one means Out of Supply, the red one is for Isolated, and the light green ones you can see in the Flyouts forms mean the unit is Available in the current phase.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
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Post #: 13

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/24/2011 4:30:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Looking at the map Steve posted, I was wondering is this map current or an older earlier version? The reason I ask is because I know Steve will use round colored circles designating what mode the combat unit is in like out of supply, disorganized etc. The only unit I see with those symbols if that's what they are is the German 4-4 corp unit on the coast near Cherbourg with what looks like an yellow and an orange circle, but no other units German or Allied have anything that looks like that units circles, is there something I am missing here, please advise.

Bo

If you check out the German HQs in the east, you'll see a few more. It's current, but if a unit has no special status it doesn't show a circle. The orange one means Out of Supply, the red one is for Isolated, and the light green ones you can see in the Flyouts forms mean the unit is Available in the current phase.

Thanks Red, but only two units are shown with any kind of circles out of all those units on the board, are you saying all of those other units are ready to go or they would have to have green circles if they are ready for combat, also will these circles show you the disposition of each enemy unit, I am not saying they will I just don't know if they do, would not the removal of these circles on enemy units be some form of FOW, [do not want to go there again about FOW PLEASE!

] just referring to enemy combat units on the board and there circle symbols, the computer can be a remarkable assistance in identifying what units can do what. How did you show or know the disposition of units in the board game?

Bo

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 14

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/24/2011 6:08:41 AM

lomyrin

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The dots are shown for units that can be active in the present phase of the game. As the phases progress so will the dots. The land units will have dots when their particular Power is in the land move phase etc....

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Post #: 15

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/24/2011 8:44:49 PM

Red Prince

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Bo, later today or early tomorrow I'll upload a screenshot from late in a turn. That's when you tend to see more of the status indicators (the circles). If a unit shows no indicator, then it is Organized and ready to be active. It won't show the light green one unless it is controlled by the major power currently making decisions and is capable of performing an action in the current phase (meaning ships won't show it during Land Movement, for example).

In the board game Oraganized = face up (fu) and Disorganized = face down (fd). This is how you kept track of the cardboard counters, by "flipping" them. Face up units can perform actions, face down typically can't. Not really sure how people worked with other things. Good memory perhaps?

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
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Post #: 16

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/25/2011 1:11:32 PM

Red Prince

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In the following image you can see the French flag at the upper right, indicating that France is the current major power. The Japanese units have the yellowish status indicator that means Out of Supply, and the USA units show no indicators, meaning they are available but it isn't their turn to do anything. I've also included a Flyout so you can see how they are used in practice.

This is a portion of the detailed map over the West coast of the USA, taken at Zoom Level 5, cropped using Paint.NET, and saved as a jpg with quality reduced to 97% (reducing size from ~960 kb to ~490 kb):

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
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Post #: 17

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/26/2011 3:00:59 PM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Looking at the map Steve posted, I was wondering is this map current or an older earlier version? The reason I ask is because I know Steve will use round colored circles designating what mode the combat unit is in like out of supply, disorganized etc. The only unit I see with those symbols if that's what they are is the German 4-4 corp unit on the coast near Cherbourg with what looks like an yellow and an orange circle, but no other units German or Allied have anything that looks like that units circles, is there something I am missing here, please advise.

Bo

Here is a picture of the unit status indicators from the help section in MWIF.

I dug out an old thread with some pictures that shows how some of the status indicators work in the land war.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2033408&mpage=1&key=

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Orm -- 6/26/2011 3:02:21 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/26/2011 4:37:30 PM

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Oh Red you get so technical you sly person, no really I now understand keep up the good explanations Red, really appreciate The insight you bring to the forums. I know Jose just received the WIF computer download and is learning the computer version even though he knows the board game really well. Steve's version is like day and night compared with the WIF computer game [of course Steve's is the day

] I think the flyout is a well thought out terrific idea because it allows the battle map to cover so much more of the over all picture, in WIF's computer game one fourth of the screen is taken up by the units ID panel in a given hex.

Bo

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Post #: 19

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/26/2011 4:40:05 PM

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Thank you Orm for this information it is really done well and will be a big and necessary help in playing MWIF.

Bo

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Post #: 20

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/26/2011 4:50:17 PM

Red Prince

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From: Bangor, Maine, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Oh Red you get so technical you sly person, no really I now understand keep up the good explanations Red, really appreciate The insight you bring to the forums. I know Jose just received the WIF computer download and is learning the computer version even though he knows the board game really well. Steve's version is like day and night compared with the WIF computer game [of course Steve's is the day] I think the flyout is a well thought out terrific idea because it allows the battle map to cover so much more of the over all picture, in WIF's computer game one fourth of the screen is taken up by the units ID panel in a given hex.

Bo

I've been working on revamping the Production Planning subsection of the Player's Manual for the last three days, so I must be in Star Trek techno-babble mode.

There is another form you can open that shows more units at once, but I haven't actually used it much. The flyouts are usually enough for me. The cool/groovy/nifty thing about all of the forms is that the vast majority of the informational ones are purely optional, easy and quick to open or close.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 21

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 6/26/2011 6:28:05 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Looking at the map Steve posted, I was wondering is this map current or an older earlier version? The reason I ask is because I know Steve will use round colored circles designating what mode the combat unit is in like out of supply, disorganized etc. The only unit I see with those symbols if that's what they are is the German 4-4 corp unit on the coast near Cherbourg with what looks like an yellow and an orange circle, but no other units German or Allied have anything that looks like that units circles, is there something I am missing here, please advise.

Bo

Here is a picture of the unit status indicators from the help section in MWIF.

I dug out an old thread with some pictures that shows how some of the status indicators work in the land war.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2033408&mpage=1&key=

Here is the current version of that help form (as of June 5th, 2011).

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 22

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 7/30/2011 4:19:57 PM

Red Prince

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Here's a screenshot of the Victory Form, from the Barbarossa scenario I completed this morning. I've discovered I have no idea how to defend the USSR in depth.

Attachment (1)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 23

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 7/30/2011 10:02:43 PM

Centuur

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Good weather for the Axis was a little more than usual, I presume?

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Post #: 24

RE: Playtest Progress with Images - 7/30/2011 10:45:06 PM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Good weather for the Axis was a little more than usual, I presume?

Actually, no. M/J was about average. J/A had 9 total impulses, I think (all fine), but I think the last 3 turns had a total of 1 Fine impulse in S/O, and Rain, Storm, or Snow the rest of the time.

What happened is that the USSR lost an HQ on the 1st or 2nd turn, and got another one "trapped" on the 2nd turn. If it had moved from its city, it would have been useless. And dead. The last two turns were extremely short, but the USSR didn't have anything to counter-attack with, anyway.

For the Axis, the Finnish troops actually had a huge impact, taking part in the conquest of both Leningrad and Moskow.

On another note, Orm and I are planning to run a 'make-shift' PBEM Barbarossa scenario over the next week or two, if we can. We're going to trade saves after each impulse, using Hot-Seat mode for the game (which we'd like to test some more). He tells me he hasn't faced an opponent in a while, and I never have, so this should be interesting. We'll keep you up on how this goes.

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 25

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Slitherine

Playtest Progress with Images