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Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characteristics/... - 6/14/2011 8:16:34 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Discuss here the new feature for racial characteristics and abilities.

This also includes victory conditions.

< Message edited by Igard -- 6/14/2011 8:37:30 PM >

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/14/2011 11:06:02 PM   
MaxyGamer

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 8/24/2010
Status: offline 		How about starting with a race that as time goes on.. and some advanced technology becomes available (for example, found on some distant ancient planet) mutates the race into something else. For better or worse. I don't mean just some longer life span or some extra brain capacity, extra 5% research. I mean some serious genetic modifications whether self-induced or not turning my smart frogs into evil zombies .. :) A joke, of course, but something more serious.

A new threat to the galaxy from a race that was nice but turned evil due to a virus... or a failed experiment.. Or perhaps the opposite. An evil empire turned into a nice guy but that wouldn't be interesting much, would it. Anyways, you can have a race become something completely different. It doesn't have to be the looks. Frogs may still look like frogs.

MOO3 had some decent customization. Well, it tried to. That's the only decent thing it had. Cool races though.

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/14/2011 11:19:36 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2282
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		That sounds good. It could be that a race has a victory condition set for 'transmutate'. When they finally reach this goal, they've completed that part of their victory. Now they have to use their new abilities to achieve further victory conditions.

How about a race that has low level beginning tech, but reaps greater rewards the more they research? It could be really tough early on, but eventually they could become very strong if given the chance.


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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/14/2011 11:43:19 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
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From: England
Status: offline 		Human,Kaidan,Securans needs a casus belli to declare war ie must hate race in the relations panel.
Dhayuts could eat aliens for population growth.No tourism
Sluken turn conquered aliens into Sluken.No toursim
Ketarovs have super spy and cannot be infiltrated.
etc.

Races gameplay should act like the desciption and not generic stats like it is now.A single player game like DW does not need Starcraft balance in the races so take risks with the design.


< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 6/14/2011 11:48:21 PM >

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/14/2011 11:51:10 PM   
MaxyGamer

 

Posts: 76
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Status: offline 		'Dhayuts could eat aliens for population growth.No tourism'



..................(Just like my mother-in-law....)

Love that one

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 1:38:34 AM   
Seath

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 6/14/2011
Status: offline 		I also think that the races in DW are too much the same. The only real difference between them that matters is the growing of there population and the way they are agressiv or passiv and the planets they life on.
I would prefer more differences.

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 7:08:15 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
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Status: offline 		Until then maybe race speciffic leaders can bring some differences.

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 7:58:22 AM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline 		@ASHBERY76
...Has a point. DW is a singleplayer 4X and thus don't need be 100% balanced like massive RTSs.


My own dream for DW characers has always been something similar to Total War series (Rome and newer) where characters have all kinds of positive and negative traits based on what they have been doing and where. Also, ancillaries were nice touch.

Characters could possibly be divided in three classes: Fleet commanders/admirals, colony governors and espionage experts.

You could also choose from two or three leaders in the beginning of the game. These would give your empire varied bonuses based on their character. This one was just top of my head, but I think it would be interesting to have sub-factions represented by different leaders.




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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 8:21:09 AM   
Data


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Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		I'm just watching a let's play for TW (tried it myself but didn't have the time to finish it then) and indeed the way leaders are implemented there is great. Me wants family tree

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 10:16:20 AM   
Seath

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 6/14/2011
Status: offline 		yeah in Medival II TW the leader system is great and would be nice in DW too. But i think a rulers family tree can be used in a Kingdom^^ not in a Republic or democracy. In those i think it would be better if u just get leader you have to hire until they die.


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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 10:59:06 AM   
Data


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Status: offline 		good point, we also need bureaucracies, oligarchies and such to cover all the forms of government.

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 11:32:28 AM   
Seath

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 6/14/2011
Status: offline 		In swarm intelligences it also could be a family tree.
And in a traderguild too, because here allways the same clan controls the traderoutes like in star wars the hutt clan which controls the auter rim sectors.

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 11:41:28 AM   
Data


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Status: offline 		I'm sure that by now Erik enjoys his opening the pandora box again

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 2:42:22 PM   
zzqxztc

 

Posts: 2
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Status: offline 		How about a race ,they have some advanced technology . Using technology ...their planet be transformed.. they put engine on planet..
(like Death star)so that the palnet has ability of movement..
they have no fixed galaxies as their home.
this race wandered around in the universe
.....just like nomads ..'universe nomads '

of course,we can also imagine this race other interesting abilities.
(i am a chinese .my english is not good.. my expression may be not clear..)

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 3:24:01 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		you're clear enough and welcome to the forum, zzqxztc
you're almost describing the pupeteer worlds from Niven's Ringworld, something I'd also like to see in the game

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 4:16:17 PM   
Seath

 

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Status: offline 		a planet that can move? okay nice thought but on a planet live cant really exist without sunlight as we know it. SO the planets has to be near a sun in any system

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 4:21:45 PM   
Data


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Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		it can be even if it moves, check out this -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klemperer_rosette
yet another pupeteer creation from Ringworld but the concept is older than this

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 4:34:03 PM   
Seath

 

Posts: 35
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Status: offline 		sry but i cant understand this text ;D because english is not my mother tung. All those worlds that are as we german says: Fachchinesisch what means that there are worlds or sentence construktions in it that i cant understand^^

would be nice if u can "translate" them into normal english of course only the main idea which belongs to our theme

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/15/2011 4:58:33 PM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		sure, np, the idea is that you can move a rotating sytem of n planets around a star....kinda like star systems move naturally only you use a sf method of sending them on the way and adjusting course as needed

Three or more equal masses, equally spaced, in the same orbit about a common center. The Puppeteers' Fleet of Worlds, described as such a rosette, has five planets of approximately equal mass in orbit around a common empty center. [Ringworld ch. 5]

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 4:34:44 AM   
Facedrop


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Hi long time forum lurker here
I would just like to say that i like the idea of moving planets, but another less complicated way a race like this could be implemented is through a race being mostly nomadic that travels in a great fleet complete with mother ships that act like planets. They could be somewhat similar to that race in the mass effect universe, not sure what the name was but they lived in one massive fleet and had no home planet.

YAY expansion! :)

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 5:23:49 AM   
Evil Steve

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/21/2010
Status: offline 		Distant Worlds and ROTS was my personal game of the year for 2010. With this in mind, here are some critiques and thoughts for the future:
Some original gaming decisions were superseded by IMO weaker decisions, so
Reintroduce planet colonisation as a racial type,taking colonisation out of the tech tree and, perhaps, replacing it with terraforming techs (ie the ability to terraform planets close to your racial type). Planet quality would then be a specific racial construct, and something that can be improved with terraforming (planet quality itself needs to be looked at – the $ penalties for colonising a low quality planet need to be punative or not allowed). The addition of other races to your empire now has a more strategic purpose. (also let migration reflect racial planet preferences). As a mitigation, colonisation can only happen if the mining station has been destroyed first (ie mining stations now claim colonisation rights)
Find another 'deterrent' mechanism for trading apart from $. The introduction of ridiculous $ amounts skews the game to the benefit of the player. It would be better if trading was dictated by racial traits and perceptions. It's important to keep the $ in the game realistic.
The previous research base system felt better. The current one (multiple sites easily defended at home planet, starports etc) skews to the player. Suggest a return to research bases only being built at research points that are strategically vulnerable (and make research stations expensive to avoid spamming) . The capital planet of each race could start as a %research point that reflects their racial and government outlook (ie a % +/- bonus to the 3 lines of research that reflects specific culture)
As a 4x, DW has a great first eXplore and eXpand, but is notionally narratively weaker in eXploit and eXterminate. Suggest that resources become more strategic – my initial thought was to have a resource slider, but now i've moved onto resource/tech/racial traits, and a distribution of resources on the basis of planet types. The philosophy would be you can only research a tech if you already possess the required resources – whilst this may sound skewed, it simply means that you think timber if you live next to a forest. Thus races will have techs predicated on the resources of their planet type, and in order to research other areas that are not within their culture, they have to source the resources first. At the end point, something like Korrabian Spice is not just valuable in and of itself, it is valuable as a key component in a rare tech (let's say in engines that fold space), and you need to have some for research before you can research the tech: better tech require rarer resources that force you to compete for these resources. How this pans out with the tech tree etc is probably beyond me and this discussion, but you could conceivably have a general tech tree which is racially biased via resources. It will also make tech trading more interesting as races will have different techs (possibly that may do the same thing better or worse eg wooden javelin, aluminium javelin)
The game could have less battle ships, and I'm thinking that they should be more expensive to build and maintain. I'm also thinking that the storyline has wrecks, but the player can't create them, so wondering whether player battles leave wrecks that can be salvaged (some kind of system whereby ships types can only be destroyed by the next higher type). This would be good for the scavenger racial type. In terms of balance, it might be good if you can only fix a hull for which you have technology for? Towing large wrecks to your home planet till such time as you can repair them (or go for a research points in that hull tech for scrapping it).
There's more, I'm sure, but brain has ceased to function.
Stevil

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 5:42:54 AM   
Data


Posts: 3909
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		That's also a good idea, Facedrop. Welcome to the forum, nice to see another one coming out of the shadows

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 7:11:16 AM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Facedrop

Hi long time forum lurker here
I would just like to say that i like the idea of moving planets, but another less complicated way a race like this could be implemented is through a race being mostly nomadic that travels in a great fleet complete with mother ships that act like planets. They could be somewhat similar to that race in the mass effect universe, not sure what the name was but they lived in one massive fleet and had no home planet.

YAY expansion! :)



Ye be talking about Quarians.
I agree. A race that lives only in cold vacuum of space would be very interesting and different addition to any 4X game. Quarians, already mentioned, and Bentusi from Homeworld series are good examples that I know.

The only real problem is balancing this kind of race. DW is currently SP only so balancing would be a bit easier.
AI would be other thing that would probably cause issues.

Apart from that, we concur 100%.

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 7:54:32 AM   
Tausken

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/20/2010
Status: offline 		Facedrops idea is plain awesome. Things like this would be cool additions to the game. That or races like the Asgaurd in Stargate. Were they have incredibly advanced technology, but they cant reproduce very fast or build ships fast or something. That would be restricted by population and would be slow growing and be restricted from taking other populations when they conquer planets.

This one may be kind of weird but abilities to make races like the zerg or Tyranids would be cool. But I think it would be neat to have an organic form of life that could infest and assimilate population bodies.

On some more basic levels specialized weaponry and Ashberys ideas are great.

This one might be a little weird but I thought it would be kind of cool. Perhaps if their was a way to make a race similar to the Klingons in startrek. It doesn't have to be deep in the form of interacting with houses, but having regular civil wars for the throne and other internal issues to work out often would be neat.

This is just a lot of random ideas that came to mind.

< Message edited by Tausken -- 6/16/2011 7:55:42 AM >

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 12:19:50 PM   
Facedrop


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		Thats right the Quarians its all coming back to me now.

Another thing i would like to see is just generally each race having a somewhat different tech tree. This would help bring about more varied game play from game to game .

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 12:25:06 PM   
Data


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Status: offline 		iirc only twilight of the arnor got that rather properly

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 3:19:06 PM   
zzqxztc

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 2/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:  zzqxztc
How about a race ,they have some advanced technology . Using technology ...their planet be transformed.. they put engine on planet..
(like Death star)so that the palnet has ability of movement..
they have no fixed galaxies as their home.
this race wandered around in the universe
.....just like nomads ..'universe nomads '
of course,we can also imagine this race other interesting abilities.
(i am a chinese .my english is not good.. my expression may be not clear..)


thanks ,Data...

I think I can supplement my ideas.
I suddenly thought that since this race have such high technology and mobility.
But they can be easily limited in game.

as Seath said..

the key is 'sun'.
the race has a little artificial sun moves around their planet ,supply their planet energy.
So they can wander in the universe everywhere.
But once destroyed their sun.
(it is easier than destroyed their planet ,the sun is little.)
they could stay in a galaxy to build their new 'little sun'.
If they move away from the star without their 'sun'.Their population will down sharply. Their planet will be frozen and its quality decline sharply.

More over, i think this race can not colonize other planet .(or difficult colonize) their most planet must be bulit .they bulid their planet.

< Message edited by zzqxztc -- 6/16/2011 3:22:55 PM >

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 3:42:08 PM   
Data


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Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline 		sf has lots of tech that allows a population to live on planets without suns or in other harsh conditions but this part of the storyline as you describe it can be adapted to the mechanoids....but then again they are already limited in this respect

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 4:19:48 PM   
Seath

 

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Joined: 6/14/2011
Status: offline 		data there are no planets without a sun in our galaxy. Each planet or moon is around a sun

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RE: Expansion Discussion - Faction/Species characterist... - 6/16/2011 4:20:45 PM   
Data


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Status: offline 		Yap, that's why I've said that SF (science fiction) has them
also, not to be pedantic but we do know only a tiny part of our universe; who knows what wonders are out there....besides dominators and dark force and such

< Message edited by Data -- 6/16/2011 4:22:49 PM >

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