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Penalties for fixed fronts???

 
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Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 7:28:06 AM   
scalp

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 9/25/2009
Status: offline 		I have a question about some gamey options. Is there a penalty if I attach a few armies of SW and S Fronts to fixed North C. and Trans C. Fronts to reduce difference between command points ?! What are the penalties will these armies have? Any supply issues or smth like that or nothing will really happen?

< Message edited by scalp -- 6/16/2011 7:30:04 AM >
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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 8:55:29 AM   
Mehring

 

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Status: offline 		Not a direct answer to your question, but why not attach them directly to STAVKA? There will be no transfer cost out of STAVKA if you come to move them again.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 9:30:09 AM   
scalp

 

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Status: offline 		STAVKA is overloaded with other units. I wanted to know if there are and what are the penalties for armies which are still in fight in front lines, but their Front HQ is fixed in other place like Caucase etc.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 9:42:33 AM   
Helpless


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Status: offline 		There is no penalties from the fact that front HQ is frozen. The big impact may have distance though - many leader rolls will fail.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 9:46:29 AM   
scalp

 

Posts: 41
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Status: offline 		So what is worse to have a front HQ overloaded with units or missing some leaders check with front which is far away?!

< Message edited by scalp -- 6/16/2011 9:48:33 AM >

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 10:05:31 AM   
Helpless


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Status: offline 		Overloaded HQ has the same kind of consequences - high chance to have failed leader rolls. Since STAVKA in many cases also not so close, leader roll in most cases will be negative. You may set very good leader for the Army, in this case leader of higher HQ will be less important.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 10:18:49 AM   
scalp

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 9/25/2009
Status: offline 		So game allows any army to be attached to a front HQ which is over 1000 km from it and fight as effectively as it would be attached to its origin front, but too much overloaded?! I feel it's a bit gamey style and probably those Caucase fronts should be restricted as well as their units, if this game follows history in some way.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 10:20:59 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

So game allows any army to be attached to a front HQ which is over 1000 km from it and fight as effectively as it would be attached to its origin front,


No, you misunderstood.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/16/2011 3:04:39 PM   
gradenko2k

 

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Joined: 12/27/2010
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quote:

So game allows any army to be attached to a front HQ which is over 1000 km from it and fight as effectively as it would be attached to its origin front, but too much overloaded?! I feel it's a bit gamey style and probably those Caucase fronts should be restricted as well as their units, if this game follows history in some way.


If you attach a unit directly to a Front, without going through the Army structure first, there is a direct command penalty.
If you attach a unit directly to STAVKA, without going through the Army nor the Front structure first, there is also a direct command penalty.

If you attach a unit to an Army, and that Army attaches to a Front, and that Front attaches to STAVKA, then there is no command penalty.

However, several mechanics in the game, such as Support Unit commitment and a multitude of other things, rely on passing leader rolls. If the roll of the Army leader fails, then the Front tries to roll instead. If the Front also fails, then STAVKA tries to roll instead.

What Helpless is saying is that the chance to fail a roll is influenced by both the distance of the unit from its various HQs, and also by command limit of the HQ.

If the Front is very far away from the unit, then the chance to fail the roll when it gets to the Front-stage may be high. If the Front is overloaded with units, then the chance to fail the roll may be high as well.

The point is that we cannot conclusively say whether if it's better to use a nearby-but-overloaded Front, versus using a frozen-and-far-but-unoccupied Front, since it may shift between the two as circumstances dictate. However, I believe it's pretty much always better to use a Front, period, rather than try direct attachment to STAVKA.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/17/2011 7:24:23 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		A related question.  When do these frozen fronts convert to mobile fronts?
I am now in OCT 1942 and I pushed the Germans back to their original starting positions and liberated Rumania. 
Some fronts are still locked (Moscow, Etc.) so I don't use them and keep a lot of armies in STAVKA.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/17/2011 6:01:06 PM   
Omat


Posts: 2414
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline 		Hello

Manual 7.6.6

Leningrad MD (at start) to Northern Front (6/41) to Leningrad Front (9/41)

Volkhov Front (12/41) to 3rd Baltic Front (4/44)

Baltic MD (at start) to Northwestern Front (6/41) to 2nd Baltic Front (10/43)

Reserve Front (at start) to Kalinin Front (10/41) to 1st Baltic Front (10/43)

Karkhov MD to Southern Ural MD (when Kiev is captured)

Western MD (at start) to Western Front (6/41) to 3rd Belorussian Front( 4/44)

Orel MD (at start) to Bryansk Front (8/41) then disbanded (10/43) then reformed as 2nd Belorussian (2/44)

Kiev MD (at start) to Southwestern Front (6/41) to Stalingrad Front (7/42) to Don Front (10/42) to Central Front (2/43) to Belorussian Front (10/43) to 1st Belorussian Front (2/44)

Southwestern Front (reformed 10/42) to 3rd Ukrainian Front (10/43)

Odessa MD (at start) to Southern Front (6/41) to Southeastern Front (8/42) to Stalingrad Front (10/42) to Southern Front (1/43) to 4th Ukrainian Front(10/43)

North Caucasus MD (at start) to Caucasus Front (11/41) to Crimea Front (2/42) to North
Caucasus Front (1/43)

Transcaucasus MD (at start) to Transcaucasus Front (11/41)
Steppe Front (6/43) to 2nd Ukrainian Front (10/43)

Voronezh Front (6/42) to 1st Ukrainian Front(10/43)


All other MD`s as e.g. Moscow MD as far as I know are defence Front`s and will be never converted.


Hope it helps..

Omat


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

A related question.  When do these frozen fronts convert to mobile fronts?




< Message edited by Omat -- 6/17/2011 6:03:21 PM >

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/17/2011 6:42:18 PM   
herwin

 

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From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		That's how the Soviets liked to do it. The Cold War Leningrad MD was to convert to a front that would rail to the Norwegian border via Finland and Sweden and then fight down Norway to Denmark and eventually capture Hamburg from the north.

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RE: Penalties for fixed fronts??? - 6/18/2011 3:26:26 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Never bothered memorizing those dates. 
Anyway since it's time-based based on historical shift from defensive to offensive, I will have to deal with the fixed HQs since my offensive into Germany is way too early.


< Message edited by jomni -- 6/18/2011 3:27:12 AM >

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