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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/29/2011 9:03:11 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


Do you really think Rader won't be waiting for such a move of mine? I sincerly don't.... Till now Rader has shown a great ability to foresee my strategic plans and has always been very fast in re-act at any changment of mine.

I do fear that by may 43 the whole combined fleet (KB included) will be parked at Colombo and Bombay waiting for my counterinvasion to come...



Doggone it!!!! (Insert saltier languiage to taste.) As CR said, STOP THINKING LIKE A DOORMAT!!

If his fleet is there, GREAT! You can sink it. Do you understand what I'm advocating you bring? Leyte Gulf in the IO, man. Every single stinkin' birdfarm you own, CVEs too, with front-line planes. He wants a stand-up fight, give him one. You will replace what he sinks. He can't. Mid-1943 you have to have your offense hat on. Make him scared of you. Isn't it about time?

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/29/2011 9:08:03 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

So the question is...what would happen if we face eachother in june 43 (without any Essex) with him having a complete air superiority (consider the amount of LBA he will have at Hyderabad, Bombay and Surat) ??
Will it really be safe and wise to bring everything to India? Or wouldn't it be better to keep some of my assets (especially naval assets) in the pacific to keep the pressure and eventually exploit his need to keep the KB in I.O.?
Because as soon as the Med opens he will be in real danger so i bet he will be forced to reinforce his presence in the I.O....but that leaves the pacific exposed...he cannot be everywhere!

Lord...tough calls....


Oh, didn't finish reading before I did my last.

Where did I say you HAD to counter in India? Use the flexibility great strength gives you. If he has Bombay packed with his whole air force, don't go there. Go farther south. Sumatra? Colombo? Madras? Assess the situation and react. You can move your navy orders of magnitude faster than he can redeploy his LBA and its needed support train. Get up on the balls of your feet and use your naval power. This is a naval game; act like it. Pick the battlespace. Make him react to you.

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/29/2011 10:38:43 PM   
GreyJoy


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BW i'll reply to you later...thanks in the meanwhile!

Oct 31 - Nov 1 1942

Another day of fire and blood in the skies over Karachi.
Rader sent everything he had this time. 300 IJAAF bombers, 200 IJN bombers and some 600 fighters (both sweep and escort).
My 100 fighters did wonders...again...don't have any other words to define the will of fighting, the courage of those guys...the last reef of the western world against the waves of the yellow barbarians (ok, sorry...din't want to offend anyone...was just giving some amphasys to my speech).
We downed nearly 250 enemy fighters during these two days, losing 80 of mines...but only 16 pilots (some badass aces among them).

Despite the numbers of planes that got through my CAP he managed to destroy only 17 planes on the ground...

70 jap units arrived at Multan today. We bombed again the AF but we already faced a stiff AA...even if it was on strat moving mode...i bet all his engineers and base forces are there, along with flak...we'll try to keep it shut...now my 4Es reached their ending operative time so every loss will be a good loss if it's a sacrifice to slow his advance...and he HAS to pass through Multan if he wants to get to Hyderabad...
We'll hit again tomorrow (storms forecasted) and we'll hit every time we can!

still 500k supplies at Karachi...not bad.

The Logistic for the counterinvasion has started...and i can confirm that it's a mess to organize everything and at the same time keep an aye on the ongoing operations in the pacific!

Will comment in detail later about my ideas for the invasion...

Thanks for your attention!

Later....






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< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 6/29/2011 10:39:33 PM >

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/29/2011 11:23:30 PM   
GreyJoy


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Ok the 2nd and 3rd November will be remembered as the ugliest day for the USN...Rader managed to muster 200 fighters on sweep over Lunga...along with the whole KB and a surface raider SCTF...you could guess how it ended....

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/29/2011 11:27:38 PM   
GreyJoy


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lost something like 60 transports and my whole Cactus Air Force...and what really makes me hangry is that, despite having LOTS of catalinas i didn't see them coming...neither the SCTF nor the KB...will be forced to use the same "picket line" tactic that Rader uses...

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/29/2011 11:34:18 PM   
GreyJoy


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Ok GJ...take a deep breath...**** happens...you went lazy in the Solomons thinking that 100 fighters were enough to protect your voulnerable ships...you got slapped...and you well deserved it. Now THINK, reorganize, don't lose your mind and feel confortable knowing that you have TONS of transports...that none of the precious AP - AKs went down and that you barely lost some time...and maybe part of some units (not vital ones)....

it's hard...when you think you're comin up from the hell...he pushes you back down again...

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 12:23:45 AM   
GreyJoy


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Ok, let's explain.

on the 2nd Nov (night), without any previous sighting, Tanaka arrived at Tulagi with a CL and 7 DDs...sunk something like 40 transports unloading supplies...my DDs and PTs based at Lunga, despite the reaction set to 3, didn't move....then he arrived at Lunga and fought with my DDs....badly damaging 3 of them...we scored some hit...but we didn't fire a single torpedo (while i was lucky that he had already fired all of his own...)...then the day came and he sent 200 fighters on sweep from Rabaul and Green Island. Zeros and Oscars. I had 120 fighters based at Tessafaronga and Lunga with a couple of Air HQ present...my fighters did good but in the end they were all damaged or without ammo/fuel...then 30 subs popped up from nowhere and started to take out what was left of my ships at Tulagi....then it came the KB that parked herself at 7 hexes north east of Tulagi....they attacked my TF unloading at Tessafaronga...none of my wildcats took off....they were all grounded by the previous fights...Tanaka managed to get away without a scratch...

The second day was the same...with sweeps that grounded my fighters and the KB destroying what was left of my transport fleet...his subs did the rest, sinking 10 fleeing AKs...

At Karachi the usual day...sweeps, escorted bombers....decent odds but we're losing 20 planes on the ground each day....simply too much...

We bombed again Multan but now the base has so many engineers that we're not really able to keep it close...soon TONS of fighters will be based there and the game will be over...

ok, too depressed now...need to sleep over these harsh defeats and to find some more spirit for tomorrow...




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< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 6/30/2011 12:29:43 AM >

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 12:44:14 AM   
FatR

 

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Observed exchange rates are utterly unsustainable for Japanese. Even if enough planes can be produced - which in Scen 2 isn't that painless, given the crushing pilot training tax - pilots will be killed off rapidly. A good Japanese player should have a decent pilot reserve at this stage (due to running a serious on-map training program from Day 1), but not nearly enough to weather a bloodbath like this. Particularly naval pilots are almost always in short supply.

On the other hand, it is not impossible that Rader is already using second-rate pilots against Karachi, while keeping elite units in reserve. But segregating units by skill (save for just filling sacrifice groups with replacement pilots, which should have been losing even worse), while possible, requires extreme micromanagement...

< Message edited by FatR -- 6/30/2011 12:46:38 AM >

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 2:50:59 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Ok GJ...take a deep breath...**** happens...you went lazy in the Solomons thinking that 100 fighters were enough to protect your voulnerable ships...you got slapped...and you well deserved it. Now THINK, reorganize, don't lose your mind and feel confortable knowing that you have TONS of transports...that none of the precious AP - AKs went down and that you barely lost some time...and maybe part of some units (not vital ones)....

it's hard...when you think you're comin up from the hell...he pushes you back down again...


"Just when I thought I was OUT, they pulled me back IN!"

Name that movie for $500, Alex.

You can't ever rely completely on air search. I don't always know why the b ad guys weren't seen, but it happens, and it happened in RL too.

That said, he shouldn't be able to cream 60 transports in one attack. The code mechanics limit how many Tfs an attacker can hit before he runs out of op points. If he attacks a TF consisting of 60 ships he's going to attack 60 ships. If he finds 10 TFs with 6 ships each he'll get off maybe three attacks at most with one TF. If he sub-divides his own he'll maybe get more, but he's also vulnerable to counter.

When you have to run supply missions to the edge of his space chop up your forces into multiple TFs rather than the One Big Convoy. I learned what you did the hard way in my first game, losing 40 ships in one attack when they were jumped while unloading. Now I split up. It's more clicks, but it helps a lot.

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 6:07:53 AM   
crsutton


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Yep, never mass your ships. And if you do not know where KB is, you have to assume it is potentially within striking distance-of everything. Call it Survival Course 101.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 6/30/2011 6:18:57 AM >


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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 6:33:30 AM   
GreyJoy


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Thank you guys for the support. So many things yet to be learnt as you can see...

Nov 4-5 1942

The Kb retired to Rabaul while some SCTFs are still patrolling around Milne bay...
His subs sunk 5 more ships at Lunga in the last two days (these were those survived at Tessafaronga that tried to retire to Lunga in order to get some more protection...). As you can imagine i'm slowing down my operations in the Solomons now...i'm almost ready to get to Munda and Shortlands but with those enemy assets around i cannot dare to get there now...need to wait and re-organize...Lunga must be built a little bit more and my transports now need a decent ASW fleet to cover their advance to Lunga...

At Karachi we saw the brightest day of my Indian Air Force. We downed 192 enemy planes losing only 5 in the air! (the rest being destroyed on the ground)... My fighters were so smart to avoid the combat with the sweeps or with the escort, waited that the bombers came in and then dive on them when they were on their way back to Jodpur!

Multan is bombed again and remain closed. 100 units spotted there.

Guys...i really do hope he cannot sustain those losses...he must be losing something like 100/150 pilots every day...!!!!!






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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 8:05:30 AM   
GreyJoy


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Ok, let's take a little look at the big picture.

BW, the point i see about committing everything to counterinvade India is that i feel, doing that way, to follow Rader's rules. If i don't keep the pressure up in the Pacific (or somewhere else) i'll let him concentrate, once again, his forces to contrast me. He still have nails and fangs as we've seen. Numbers are still on his side and i don't think i'll be able to win a confrontation CVs vs. CVs under his conditions (meaning with the full support of his LBAs).
So my point is that i need to force him to divide his assets or to chose one place to defend and leave the others exposed.
I don't think (or i don't believe) i'll need my whole fleet and my whole land forces to accompish what the Indian counterinvasion is meant to be: a move to save Karachi and re-open the Indian front.
At Karachi i have 9000 AVs, with tons of base forces, engineers, artillery, tanks etc.... if i manage to land somehwer eon the cost, even with 3000 AVs and estabilish a solid beachhead there, he'll be forced to withdraw from Karachi and the whole front will be in movement again. This could led into a mass retreat of his...he'll need to strongly committ (air units, naval units etc) if he wants to save his whole front...but doing so (so to say, committing the KB and the combined surface fleet) he will expose his flank (DEI, Mariannas, NG...whatever)... i want to force him to take desperate decisions...and i need to be ready to exploit this combination of factors.
So keeping another "open front" (so to say keeping another invasion force somehwere esle than in India) should allow me to exploit this "forced choice" of his.

However for the moment everything is still to be decided. I'm moving my transports and getting my units ready to be moved to UK and CT. I've added another U.S. Division to the Indian operation...but i do want to keep the marines in the pacific...first of all for a matter of "taste"...secondly because i need them in order to advance towards Rabaul and, in the next summer, to keep the possibility of opening a "new front" up.

Just to let you know, after the suggestion of NY59Giants, i managed to get 4 subs mining Singapore, Palembang and Calcutta...no hits for the moment ....but with sneaky approaches it can be done...Rader doesn't have Helens ASW everywhere...

Multan remains closed for the moment. Despite the presence of 80 units the base dimensions (lvl 1) are clearly creating some difficulties to Rader. Lahore is being built and i bet that soon we'll find Nicks and Zeros on LRCAP over Multan...well...as i said it's a risk that we need to take...every day that Multan isn't a safe place for him is a day gained in the race for Karachi.

The last week has been really harsh for his bombing force. I cannot believe he has so many bomber pilots to spare...
I'm playing cat&mouse with his DDs...not giving them the chance to tangle my surface force again...so i'm moving my DDs around, disbanding them, sending back into the wormhole just to call them back the day his DDs have left...it's working...for the moment at least.

For what concerns PM...well, as you may guess i've lost the right timing...i should have striked, even without my CVs, when the KB was raiding at Canton Is....now that she's at Rabaul i have to remain on foot and wait...

Same for Munda and Shortlands...cannot hope to get there with his naval assets so close...


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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 8:14:40 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Ok GJ...take a deep breath...**** happens...you went lazy in the Solomons thinking that 100 fighters were enough to protect your voulnerable ships...you got slapped...and you well deserved it. Now THINK, reorganize, don't lose your mind and feel confortable knowing that you have TONS of transports...that none of the precious AP - AKs went down and that you barely lost some time...and maybe part of some units (not vital ones)....

it's hard...when you think you're comin up from the hell...he pushes you back down again...


"Just when I thought I was OUT, they pulled me back IN!"

Name that movie for $500, Alex.

You can't ever rely completely on air search. I don't always know why the b ad guys weren't seen, but it happens, and it happened in RL too.

That said, he shouldn't be able to cream 60 transports in one attack. The code mechanics limit how many Tfs an attacker can hit before he runs out of op points. If he attacks a TF consisting of 60 ships he's going to attack 60 ships. If he finds 10 TFs with 6 ships each he'll get off maybe three attacks at most with one TF. If he sub-divides his own he'll maybe get more, but he's also vulnerable to counter.

When you have to run supply missions to the edge of his space chop up your forces into multiple TFs rather than the One Big Convoy. I learned what you did the hard way in my first game, losing 40 ships in one attack when they were jumped while unloading. Now I split up. It's more clicks, but it helps a lot.



Unfortunately BW my transports were divided in 4 different TFs...the SCTF did the biggest part, leaving only 20/25 transports to be dealt by the KB...for sure i went overconfident...the last month of impunity in the Solomons made me feel secure...and i paid for it. Lesson learnt (i hope).


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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 8:43:52 AM   
ny59giants


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GJ - You just learned that a having extra PBY groups at a base is important. I don't know how you were set up PBY-wise around Lunga/Tulagi when you were surprised by KB.

What percentage were they set on Naval Search?
How many PBYs did you have there on search?
Were you using defined search arcs?
What are the experience levels of your PBY pilots?
Leaders of your PBY groups are ...
Do you have any 4e bombers trained up on Naval Search to supplement your PBY efforts??

The expensive lessons that almost all players have gone through regardless of how many post we read of another players demise.

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 9:00:43 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

GJ - You just learned that a having extra PBY groups at a base is important. I don't know how you were set up PBY-wise around Lunga/Tulagi when you were surprised by KB.

What percentage were they set on Naval Search?
How many PBYs did you have there on search?
Were you using defined search arcs?
What are the experience levels of your PBY pilots?
Leaders of your PBY groups are ...
Do you have any 4e bombers trained up on Naval Search to supplement your PBY efforts??

The expensive lessons that almost all players have gone through regardless of how many post we read of another players demise.



You're right mate. As for every thing in life you have to bump your head on it to "get it", no matter how much you "think" to know...

I had 12 Cats at Lunga and 8 at Tulagi...the search arcs were 270-90...i didn't place more cause i felt i had to have every part of my "chain" protected so i'm having them at PH, Johnston, Palmyra, Baker and Canton, Pago, Suva, Lungaville, Ndani and Noumea...obviously they're never enough...
No i don't have 4Es on naval search...cause i'm saving all of them for India...and when at the beginning of the game i've placed 4Es on Naval Search everybody told me was a mistake cause they are too precious....well...truth is always in the middle right? So probably it would have been well worth this time to expend some of them in that role...

Ok, i'll pay more attention on these datails... but there's so much to care about that i don't understand how you guys can do it

Still thanks!

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 9:23:12 AM   
Nemo121


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That coverage is insufficient. Also, hit Z and check out your search arcs. It is possible that by forgetting to tell that arc to be clockwise vs counter-clockwise you may have been intending to search north from 270 to 90 but actually searching south.

Either way though 12 PBYs to cover 180 degrees is totally insufficient. I consider that 12 plane group can cover 60 degrees with 50% of the planes flying every day. So that requires 36 PBYs to cover 180 degrees. Even then I would double up on the expected axis of advance with a second group of PBYs to make it 48 naval search planes ( they don't have to be pBYs, long-range bombers can do in a pinch ) to cover 180 degrees with the most likely 60 degrees of approach covered by 2 groups.

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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 9:38:15 AM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

That coverage is insufficient. Also, hit Z and check out your search arcs. It is possible that by forgetting to tell that arc to be clockwise vs counter-clockwise you may have been intending to search north from 270 to 90 but actually searching south.

Either way though 12 PBYs to cover 180 degrees is totally insufficient. I consider that 12 plane group can cover 60 degrees with 50% of the planes flying every day. So that requires 36 PBYs to cover 180 degrees. Even then I would double up on the expected axis of advance with a second group of PBYs to make it 48 naval search planes ( they don't have to be pBYs, long-range bombers can do in a pinch ) to cover 180 degrees with the most likely 60 degrees of approach covered by 2 groups.


Thanks Nemo.
No, i'm sure the arcs were set correctly...simply not enough planes as you've stated. But the choice is hard...concentrate all my catalias (i don't have that many groups to spare) means to be completely blind in some other soft spots... (PH, Canton, Baker, Pago, Suva, NOPAC, Western Oz etc...)...
However i need to be more conservative cause i'm losing far too many of them...every time the KB pops up the cats fall down in droves...

However...24 (50%) for 60 degrees? So it means 12 (100%-high faitgue high op losses) for 60°...it's a lot...but i think it's doable...i'll try to do that asap! Thanks!


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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 9:41:42 AM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I had 12 Cats at Lunga and 8 at Tulagi...the search arcs were 270-90...i didn't place more cause i felt i had to have every part of my "chain" protected so i'm having them at PH, Johnston, Palmyra, Baker and Canton, Pago, Suva, Lungaville, Ndani and Noumea...obviously they're never enough...

Search arcs don't work in the last official patch, so beware if you use it. They should be fixed in the current beta patch.



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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 9:52:13 AM   
GreyJoy


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We use the current beta...thanks FatR!


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RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 10:29:29 AM   
beppi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

GJ - You just learned that a having extra PBY groups at a base is important. I don't know how you were set up PBY-wise around Lunga/Tulagi when you were surprised by KB.

What percentage were they set on Naval Search?
How many PBYs did you have there on search?
Were you using defined search arcs?
What are the experience levels of your PBY pilots?
Leaders of your PBY groups are ...
Do you have any 4e bombers trained up on Naval Search to supplement your PBY efforts??

The expensive lessons that almost all players have gone through regardless of how many post we read of another players demise.



You're right mate. As for every thing in life you have to bump your head on it to "get it", no matter how much you "think" to know...

I had 12 Cats at Lunga and 8 at Tulagi...the search arcs were 270-90...i didn't place more cause i felt i had to have every part of my "chain" protected so i'm having them at PH, Johnston, Palmyra, Baker and Canton, Pago, Suva, Lungaville, Ndani and Noumea...obviously they're never enough...
No i don't have 4Es on naval search...cause i'm saving all of them for India...and when at the beginning of the game i've placed 4Es on Naval Search everybody told me was a mistake cause they are too precious....well...truth is always in the middle right? So probably it would have been well worth this time to expend some of them in that role...

Ok, i'll pay more attention on these datails... but there's so much to care about that i don't understand how you guys can do it

Still thanks!


Regarding to your little KB incident. I usually have a rule of thumb to count a base KB proof. Either one lvl 9 Base with at least 500+ fighters and enough DB and TBs to threaten him AND heavy surface protection (at least 4 PT forces and two more heavier surface TFs) or 2 lvl 8 bases + a smaller one only stuffed with some catas (1 squad) and the rest filled with fighters and DBs/TBs. 1 lvl 8 base and at least 2 lvl 6+ bases and if possible one another smaller base. As the lvl 9 base you need for each base at least 2-3 PT boat TFs and 2-3 surface forces a little heavier with enough reaction.
All bases have to be next to each other.

It is easier in 1943 as the quality of your fighters get much better so in 1942 add another 100 fighters or so.

To move your way up the solomons to rabaul you do not need any carriers as long as you do not plan to assault any heavy defended enemy bases. Best tactic is to first establish a KB proof base. (I had Lungavilla and the neighboring bases all developed to lvl 8. Next step is to slowly develop every base up to lunga. I usually did it the following way. First move a HQ with nav support in range (SOPAC,CENTPAC) or so to provide naval support to the bases which you want to develop next. Then drop 2-3 engeneering units in a small TF consisting only of xAKl and small xAPs (APDs) with 20k supply or so. The TFs have to be small enough to be not a really worthy target for KB and against netties protect them with some LRCAP. The force has to be small enough to not be a problem if lost. So i developed Kirakir and Steward island that way.

The jump to Lunga was the following way. First Develop Lunga, Tasaafa., Tulagi, Roussel and Thousnad ship nay to the max. First again with 2-3 engineering units for each base. As soon as they reach a critical level (3-4) AF size add some more engineering units and a base force and some fighters + PBYs + some PT fleets for each base. Evenly distributed between all bases. As soon as you have a KB proof interlocking system (Lunga + Tass lvl 8, Tulagi lvl 6) move in a strong fighter force and DBs/TBs and max out all bases with fighters/dbs/tbs again evenly distributed. Russel + Thousand + Aki act as pure fighter bases with all the scouting assets (PBYs). Rennel Island acted as Sweep base for 8 P38 squads to sweep Japanese hold bases. All this transportation with small TFs or through air.

As soon as you have everything secured the big convoys start to roll in to transport all you needed assets. Tulagi acts as a good supply hub and base for further operations, but again first guard it then move enough stuff in. Next development step is Munda and the 3 other bases around it. Again first drop some small engineering stuff in the dot bases. If a dot is enemy you can paradrop to capture it. If one of the bases is enemy controlled just ignore it and develop your bases around the enemy base. Again as soon as the bases are big enough move more engeneers in and some baseforce stuff + fighters. On the way you can take rekata and Ontong. Ontong is a perfect spotting base for PBYs to see enemy fleets early.

Next jump then is to Shortlands and Treasure/Torokin. Again first develop with small forces the move some more stuff in. But your main assault hub should remain Lunga with Renell Island as the 4E base (as it is lvl 8). Always when you develop a new group of bases have one of your HQs close to get the naval support.

I do not like Rossel and Taluga as they are to far away from an own KB proof system to really jump there and Rossel and Taluga (lack a third base there) are to small to get KB proof them self.

In my PBEM i took over in 1/43 with all US carriers sunk and KB in full action so i had to rely heavy on KB proof ground bases.

Oh and you need a lot of fighters (800+) to have enough assets to protect your hub (500+) and have some support to sweep (100+ P38) and to guard you new developed bases. This could be a little problem with your meat grinder at Karachi. And every sub not needed in India should swarm the complete are between your bases an Rabaul and between your bases and Truk.
In addition (thats the reason why you need so many bases around lunga) use your recon forces. If you scout KB in Truk and next turn you do not see it it might do something crazy, same goes for Rabaul and every other big japanese base in the area. Then at begin of 1943 when the hellcats arrive you can think about a fight with KB (still a defenesive fight perfered close to your bases) and you can start to think about taking the rabaul area. That still will be a meat grind as it will a part of the defensive perimeter of you opponent.

As soon as you control Kavieng at it is lvl 9 you can lock down Truk and with that the entire central pacific.

Solomons are the perfect area to assault without carriers and as you plan to use the carriers in India i think it is quite a good area to develop. It is a plan for at least 6 months and you do not need to hurry so do it methodical and slowly. You only need 3-4 divisions for invasions and guard duties, a lot of engineering units which are not needed in India, some base forces and fighters/DBs/TBs and some 2E in anti naval role and 4E (8 squads as a lvl 8 base can only hold 8 squads). Fighters should be Australian ones and Navy/Marine ones and will be the biggest problem for you to properly guard you movements.

You subs which are not in Karachi area should be used to swarm the area between you bases and rabaul/truk. Not to sink KB but if Reder uses ASW you notice a moving KB and if not you might get a combat report which tells you that KB is on the move. And all you big supply convoys moving to your desired supply hub should always take the extra long safe route :)



< Message edited by beppi -- 6/30/2011 10:45:25 AM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1190
RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 10:57:56 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
Thanks Beppi!
Yes, i understand that principle (slow but steady and safe advance). However in the solomons i tried to "carpe diem"...when we realized that nothing south of Lae was garrisoned i decided to speed up the whole process and take advantage of this disposition of Rader's troops, thus gaining many months, exploiting the fact that we had plenty of troops ready for the Gilberts at Suva and Pago Pago (the second Gilbert operation was, as we remember, postponed due to the presence of the KB), troops that could be diverted into the Solomons

Indeed i think it was a sound decision...we managed in 3 months to get Noumea, Efate, Lungaville, Ndai, Lunga, Tulagi and Tessafaronga fully garrisoned and developed.
However the numbers you've mentioned are far far from what i can effort to move on the front lines. Karachi has sucked during these months every single U.S. plane that could fly and i only have to rely, for the pacific front, on the USN and USMC air units...so 120 fighters at Lunga is already a HUGE numbers for me at the moment.

100 P-38s?...dreaming...what is left of my P-38s pool is fighting at Karachi, along with the P-39s and P-40s... Sad but true.

It was a satback. I admit. And again i think the whole operation was a strategically a success...i just got lazy...if i only had used fewer ships at the same time (so if i felt less safe there) the KB raid would have been almost useless...but, again...we make mistake, we learn, we get better, we keep on advancing!

Thanks!!!

(in reply to beppi)
Post #: 1191
RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 11:07:11 AM   
GreyJoy


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Someone (think it was witqs) asked for a map of Karachi....here you go




Attachment (1)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1192
RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 1:35:05 PM   
beppi

 

Posts: 382
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Thanks Beppi!
Yes, i understand that principle (slow but steady and safe advance). However in the solomons i tried to "carpe diem"...when we realized that nothing south of Lae was garrisoned i decided to speed up the whole process and take advantage of this disposition of Rader's troops, thus gaining many months, exploiting the fact that we had plenty of troops ready for the Gilberts at Suva and Pago Pago (the second Gilbert operation was, as we remember, postponed due to the presence of the KB), troops that could be diverted into the Solomons

Indeed i think it was a sound decision...we managed in 3 months to get Noumea, Efate, Lungaville, Ndai, Lunga, Tulagi and Tessafaronga fully garrisoned and developed.
However the numbers you've mentioned are far far from what i can effort to move on the front lines. Karachi has sucked during these months every single U.S. plane that could fly and i only have to rely, for the pacific front, on the USN and USMC air units...so 120 fighters at Lunga is already a HUGE numbers for me at the moment.

100 P-38s?...dreaming...what is left of my P-38s pool is fighting at Karachi, along with the P-39s and P-40s... Sad but true.

It was a satback. I admit. And again i think the whole operation was a strategically a success...i just got lazy...if i only had used fewer ships at the same time (so if i felt less safe there) the KB raid would have been almost useless...but, again...we make mistake, we learn, we get better, we keep on advancing!

Thanks!!!


I did not want to criticize you, a 50 lost transport ships mean nothing. The only thing really worth it for an allied player are APAs and AKAs. Everything else is expandable. And yes your gains in the solomons where, at least from my point of view too, worth the losses.

As your main focus will be the Inchon style landing in India you should focus your main assets (CVs,APAs and so on) there as it is much more important than a quicker advance in the solomons. I just wanted to give you some tips to have a good "needle" strategy in the solomons. The 100 P38 are neccesary to do offensive operations against a well defended Rabaul, and for me it seems that Reder will draw his defensive line there. And the most important thing is, you have time. Your position in the solomons is quite good so further expand it, develop every possible base up to rabaul. Do not risk to much just develop. After the landings in India you have your naval assets back as India is mostly a land and air war (except colombo which is not that important). Then after that you can start to shift you fleet back to the south and use the already developed bases to move on rabaul. I see here plannings for the future in 10 or 12 months, not now. Then you will have the F6F, the P47 and more planes in greater numbers and higher quality. Then you can start a grind down of the rabaul area. And if you control that area at the begin of 1944 you are in a good position. No need to attack or invade it now, as India should be the priority.

And regarding to the numbers, that are the number necessarily to harden a base against KB raids. If you do not have them it is not a problem , just do not base crucial naval assets there and keep in mind that KB might visit. If you take that into account it is no problem. (And there will be a time when you have the planes )

As last tip, if you have some bases around lunga -> use an good old style maskirovka. If Reder sees 5-6 bases close to each other with a 150 fighters in each and a 50 bombers he will think twice to assault it. So if you shift low quality fighters there or shift your training program there (from the Westcoast) or australian/NZ low quality stuff it just seems that you have a lot of planes there. They will just seem like a serious threat to KB even if the are not really one.


< Message edited by beppi -- 6/30/2011 1:43:03 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1193
RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 7:23:12 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Yes, don't worry about the loss of those ships. (just be careful about losing the next 60 ) And your ASW assets are going to start to get much stronger as you near 1943. You will get a flood of SC, PC, DDs and eventually DEs. Just upgrade them regularly and they will start to kill Japanses subs with ease. I really am amazed how he is willing to let you slaughter his aircraft. Scen #2 aside, your kills numbers are off the charts.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to beppi)
Post #: 1194
RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 8:59:45 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL:
Search arcs don't work in the last official patch, so beware if you use it. They should be fixed in the current beta patch.





WTF??? Is that true? So how do search planes act in the last offical patch? Is it better just to have them set to random

(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 1195
RE: Bloody hairy - 6/30/2011 9:35:48 PM   
Mistmatz

 

Posts: 1399
Joined: 10/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller


quote:

ORIGINAL:
Search arcs don't work in the last official patch, so beware if you use it. They should be fixed in the current beta patch.





WTF??? Is that true? So how do search planes act in the last offical patch? Is it better just to have them set to random




I believe turning them off completely was the consensus in the forum. One of the reasons I finally gave in to upgrading to the unofficial patch (so far no regret).

GreyJoy, good AAR, I like it. Regarding your latest trouble with KB, I second not massing ships at frontline bases as others mentioned. I suggest limiting the shipping to the port capacity. This guarantees optimal usage of the facilities and means risking fewer and lower value ships as their exposure to potential threats (air or SCTF) will be shorter. You might even consider a SCTF or timed CAP/LRCAP for protection yourself when the goods or LCUs are particularly valuable.

Also a little CS TF does wonders over time even for a size 1 base.


_____________________________

If you gained knowledge through the forum, why not putting it into the AE wiki?

http://witp-ae.wikia.com/wiki/War_in_the_Pacific:_Admiral%27s_Edition_Wiki


(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 1196
RE: Bloody hairy - 7/1/2011 6:31:12 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
Nov 6, 7 1942

He finally stood down his bombers at Karachi . He sent 550 fighters on sweep and our guys did what they could...the A2A ratings are 16 lost for me and 42 for him...

Multan has been saved by a day of storms over there...now it's open and operative...

Intel says Guam is recieving a full division (the 6th), while another Guards division is reported moving on AKs to Calcutta....

The KB seems to have moved back to Truk...while we're organizing our air ASW in the Solomons...


Rader is leaving for a holiday week so there probably will be only very few turns till next week end....we'll slow down and i'll have some time to re-elaborate my overall strategy

Thx

(in reply to Mistmatz)
Post #: 1197
RE: Bloody hairy - 7/1/2011 10:06:35 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Thanks Beppi!
Yes, i understand that principle (slow but steady and safe advance). However in the solomons i tried to "carpe diem"...when we realized that nothing south of Lae was garrisoned i decided to speed up the whole process and take advantage of this disposition of Rader's troops, thus gaining many months, exploiting the fact that we had plenty of troops ready for the Gilberts at Suva and Pago Pago (the second Gilbert operation was, as we remember, postponed due to the presence of the KB), troops that could be diverted into the Solomons

Indeed i think it was a sound decision...we managed in 3 months to get Noumea, Efate, Lungaville, Ndai, Lunga, Tulagi and Tessafaronga fully garrisoned and developed.
However the numbers you've mentioned are far far from what i can effort to move on the front lines. Karachi has sucked during these months every single U.S. plane that could fly and i only have to rely, for the pacific front, on the USN and USMC air units...so 120 fighters at Lunga is already a HUGE numbers for me at the moment.

100 P-38s?...dreaming...what is left of my P-38s pool is fighting at Karachi, along with the P-39s and P-40s... Sad but true.

It was a satback. I admit. And again i think the whole operation was a strategically a success...i just got lazy...if i only had used fewer ships at the same time (so if i felt less safe there) the KB raid would have been almost useless...but, again...we make mistake, we learn, we get better, we keep on advancing!

Thanks!!!


I did not want to criticize you, a 50 lost transport ships mean nothing. The only thing really worth it for an allied player are APAs and AKAs. Everything else is expandable. And yes your gains in the solomons where, at least from my point of view too, worth the losses.

As your main focus will be the Inchon style landing in India you should focus your main assets (CVs,APAs and so on) there as it is much more important than a quicker advance in the solomons. I just wanted to give you some tips to have a good "needle" strategy in the solomons. The 100 P38 are neccesary to do offensive operations against a well defended Rabaul, and for me it seems that Reder will draw his defensive line there. And the most important thing is, you have time. Your position in the solomons is quite good so further expand it, develop every possible base up to rabaul. Do not risk to much just develop. After the landings in India you have your naval assets back as India is mostly a land and air war (except colombo which is not that important). Then after that you can start to shift you fleet back to the south and use the already developed bases to move on rabaul. I see here plannings for the future in 10 or 12 months, not now. Then you will have the F6F, the P47 and more planes in greater numbers and higher quality. Then you can start a grind down of the rabaul area. And if you control that area at the begin of 1944 you are in a good position. No need to attack or invade it now, as India should be the priority.

And regarding to the numbers, that are the number necessarily to harden a base against KB raids. If you do not have them it is not a problem , just do not base crucial naval assets there and keep in mind that KB might visit. If you take that into account it is no problem. (And there will be a time when you have the planes )

As last tip, if you have some bases around lunga -> use an good old style maskirovka. If Reder sees 5-6 bases close to each other with a 150 fighters in each and a 50 bombers he will think twice to assault it. So if you shift low quality fighters there or shift your training program there (from the Westcoast) or australian/NZ low quality stuff it just seems that you have a lot of planes there. They will just seem like a serious threat to KB even if the are not really one.



Yes, don't worry mate, i perfectly understood the meaning of your post! and, even if it was a critic, was really well accepted!

It's true that i need to focus in India. At the same time, as i said yesterday, i wanna keep the pressure up in the pacific. Every plane, every ship, every unit that Rader will feel to move to the pacific to counter my advance (and he's already doing that by moving lots of troops, planes and ships to that theatre as soon as i put my head there) will mean less japanese defences against the invasion of the Sub continent.
So my goal will be to study and put in practice two different balanced OOBs for these two main theatres (Pacific and India) so that he will not be able to easily put everything back to India.

At the moment Rabaul area is able to defend itself only by the presence of the KB (he has not enough LB bombers to suppress Karachi and at the same time to stop the american advance). He will have to decide where to place his KB...and by doing that he'll be forced to "open" the other front. So my aim is to be ready to act and exploit where the KB won't be.

To do that we must balance the forces. Even if i like the idea of massing everything in one single giant force (also because it will be logistically easier), i do think it's not strategically correct. Wanna use allies' numbers to feed two different vectors so forcing him to divide.

So, a part from the LCUs, speaking about navy, my most recent thought is that probably it's better to leave the CVEs in the pacific (cause the idea is to advance using the "frog" tactic), and to move the CVs to India. I think the KB will be in India by june 43...pretty sure of that....so if i need to tangle with it, i need my CVs...

I'll use this week of slowing down in order to study all the possible chances and to elaborate a detailed plan.

(in reply to beppi)
Post #: 1198
RE: Bloody hairy - 7/1/2011 10:56:55 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
If i'm not mistaken with my calculations, i should be able to have for the Indian adventure 7 U.S. CVs + CVL Hermes (mid june 43 at Aden), while leaving in the pacific to support the Solomons campaign 4 CVEs (for a grand total of nearly 110 planes)...unfortunately the last brit CV (The Illustrious) will be called back in 60 days so we won't have her (and cannot keep her cause it will cost me 65 PPs per day ).

Will it be enough? Will it be worth this "division of forces" ?... thinking about it....are 7 CVs enough to counter the whole KB?

By mid June i'll probably have 150 of my carrier fighters equipped with Hellcats and more 40/50 with Corsairs...but will it make any real difference?

I mean...i'll have 36x7 fighters aboard my carriers...252...not enough to protect me against the full KB plus the LBAs.... what should i strip? move down some of the avegners groups and put aboard some more USMC fighters?...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1199
RE: Bloody hairy - 7/1/2011 11:16:29 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

If i'm not mistaken with my calculations, i should be able to have for the Indian adventure 7 U.S. CVs + CVL Hermes (mid june 43 at Aden), while leaving in the pacific to support the Solomons campaign 4 CVEs (for a grand total of nearly 110 planes)...unfortunately the last brit CV (The Illustrious) will be called back in 60 days so we won't have her (and cannot keep her cause it will cost me 65 PPs per day ).


More importantly, which planes will you have on the CVs/CVEs, and how good will the pilots be? What do you expect Wildcats to accomplish in mid-1943?

quote:

Will it be enough? Will it be worth this "division of forces" ?... thinking about it....are 7 CVs enough to counter the whole KB?


Go back and re-read the carrier battles in Andy Mac's game against PzB. What will you do differently with your CVs?

quote:

By mid June i'll probably have 150 of my carrier fighters equipped with Hellcats and more 40/50 with Corsairs...but will it make any real difference?

I mean...i'll have 36x7 fighters aboard my carriers...252...not enough to protect me against the full KB plus the LBAs.... what should i strip? move down some of the avegners groups and put aboard some more USMC fighters?...


What role do you expect your CV AC to play? Are you going to use them for CAP only, or do you intend to attack Japanese ships? Match your AC to your plan.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
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