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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

 
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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/24/2011 7:12:07 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		OOB and losses turn 61. Even with the losses of the last turns, Soviet strength is formidable.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/24/2011 1:32:27 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Both sides are hurting in the tank department. Over 7 million Russian casualties and almost 130k artillery gone. Russians have really been hurt and his unit count is taking a huge hit.

Nice job on the 42 campaign!

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Post #: 242
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/24/2011 3:16:25 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		This has been a very effective Summer 1942 campaign. 7 mil losses is no joke, even for the Red Army.

Destroying units will force him to spend APs on building new divisions, rather than new Corps.

His tank strength is very low. I wonder if he just isn't building enough units to deploy tanks in the pool, or the pool is also empty. Soviet production in 1942 should be something like 450 per turn. If you can prevent him from accumulating piles of T-34s, that will bode well for 1943.

It's a long way to Berlin, and I'm not sure he's getting there

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Post #: 243
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/27/2011 2:12:26 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 62. The offensive to the Southeast continues. XXXIX Panzer Corps breaks through and captures Boguchar in a coup de main.

Meanwhile the rested 2d Panzer Army has been redeployed to the area east of Kharkov (circled) and spread out to the extent possible to hide it from enemy reconnaisance. The plan is a thrust east to join with the forces at Boguchar and trap the Soviet defenders of the bulge northwest of Boguchar.

After that blow, it should be possible to advance to Stalingrad, forcing the relocation of the last Soviet big industrial centre.




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Post #: 244
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/28/2011 9:28:00 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 63 August 27 1942.

The Soviets have apparently put together a tank reserve, and now they have launched a spoiling attack with several tank corps on my northeastern flank, surrounding Tambov.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/28/2011 9:32:23 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		The situation at Tambov will be handled by local infantry reserves, so as not to dissipate strength from the main thrust southeast.

The attack by 2d Panzer Army succeeds, a breakthrough is accomplished and they advance to contact elements attacking southwest from Boguchar. At the same time, panzers break out to the southeast and a large part of the Soviet defenders are cut off. The encirclements are weak however, and the panzer divisions are at low strength. The encirclements will probably not hold, but they will unhinge the Soviet defenses and bring us a third of the way to Stalingrad.




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Post #: 246
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/28/2011 6:28:55 PM   
Klydon


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Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Nasty. Even if you don't get to Stalingrad, you are doing what the Germans need to do in 1942 and that is kill as many Russian counters as possible. 

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Post #: 247
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/28/2011 7:30:39 PM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		Soviet players really need to learn to use defenses in depth when facing panzer units. I can see where a lot of your panzers can get cut off so I hope you brought plenty of gas along.

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Post #: 248
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/28/2011 8:33:29 PM   
Tarhunnas


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From: Hex X37, Y15
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Soviet players really need to learn to use defenses in depth when facing panzer units. I can see where a lot of your panzers can get cut off so I hope you brought plenty of gas along.


Yes, I expect some of them to be cut off, and I am operating on a shoestring, but most of the Soviet units in the vicinity are 1-1s, so I think the risk is acceptable. The Soviet army is really beginning to look ground down, with many both tank and infantry units being very weakish. Anyway, like many military operations, a brave posture can hide your own weakness and impose your will on the opponent. Of course, there is an ending to that, when the enemy calls your bluff... sometimes it's known by the name Stalingrad.

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Post #: 249
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/28/2011 10:57:52 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
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Status: offline 		Nice job starting to look like you very much have upper hand if hes down to only 4.3 million men. I am guessing his CV# are low on most of his units.

From what I am seeing if the Russian player gets below 5 million in 42 hes in trouble.

Pelton

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/29/2011 10:42:47 AM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Nice job starting to look like you very much have upper hand if hes down to only 4.3 million men. I am guessing his CV# are low on most of his units.

From what I am seeing if the Russian player gets below 5 million in 42 hes in trouble.

Pelton


Many Soviet units are CV 1 or 2, but both armies are very worn down. My mobile units have CVs of 3 to 5. They need a rest, but I can't let go now when I have a good grip.

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Post #: 251
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/29/2011 10:47:40 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
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From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 64. September 4 1942.

The pockets were broken as expected, but so is the Soviet defense line. The advance towards Stalingrad continues, while the pockets are solidified.

Soviet attacks in the Tambov area continues, but I am letting 2d Army handle that with local forces. It is not really a threat even if they manage to advance, a breakthrough seems unlikely. And any Soviet units attacking there will not be able to oppose the advance to Stalingrad.

Capturing Stalingrad seems within the bounds of the possible, but the question is if it can be done before mud? This game has random weather, so mud can strike at any time now, even if not very likely in september.




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/29/2011 10:58:28 AM >

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Post #: 252
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/29/2011 12:07:56 PM   
krupp_88mm


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Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		wow really nice job, i dont know if i would go for stalingrad, he can keep laying down inf and reserves, plus its too late in the year, remember your victory disease you had before, if you do get stalingrad winter comes your lines will be very long and youll have to withdraw anyway, i would just try to straighten your lines north and south of the bulge and try to surround some more corps and guards divisions, and maybe capture or destroy some more manpower cities, i think hes on the ropes if you just keep destroying units

maybe even try a quick dash to wreck saratov's manpower and encircle the north of the bulge, he might not be expecting that, tehn again if he doesnt lay down any reserves in front of stalingrad maybe just a feint that way to force him to evac the industry and then turn around, unless he leaves it ungaurded



the blue plan would be to force him to shift his reserves in front of stalingrad, while you sweep south to shorten your lines and pocket units in the south

the red plan is to pocket units and then fall back to defensive positions for winter

< Message edited by krupp_88mm -- 6/29/2011 12:28:39 PM >

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Post #: 253
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/29/2011 1:14:50 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I would go for Stalingrad. What's the worst that can happen?

Seriously, I would keep pushing, though you likely have to be more conservative if there is ANY chance of MUD. Getting Panzers cut-off then stuck in mud would be a disaster.

Saratov is a good target; there is alot of industry there if he hasn't moved it.

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Post #: 254
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/29/2011 11:22:06 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 65. September 10 1942.

Map after recon but before German moves. The encirclements hold, now it's harvest time.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/29/2011 11:57:42 PM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		Remember every unit destroyed is gone for good and the more that are destroyed will thin his line even more but those remaining will have higher cv's due to fewer units to place his replacements in.

On the other hand if you stretch his line out by heading to the Volga, you will have the same effect of thinning his front but the units will have lower cv's and every city you take gets that much closer to a decisive victory.

Tough call...especially it being September..you have only 2 or 3 good weather turns before mud. Had it been mid-August or sooner I would say go for the Volga. being that it is September, kill units and get redundant or protected railheads as far forward as possible.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 6:46:28 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		The situation at Tambov is getting serious and cannot be ignored anymore. I will have to divert reserves to deal with it. Map before German moves.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 10:03:24 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Southern half of front after Axis moves. 2d Panzer Army breaks through to the sothwest and cuts the railway between Rostov and Stalingrad. The situation is beginning to look precarious for the Soviet forces in the Donbass. Now I have a new conundrum. Turn right and head for Rostov to cut off the Soviet southern front, or turn left to take Stalingrad?

I suspect though, that STAVKA might be withdrawing the Southern Front to Rostov...

The threat at Tambov was nicely handled by 2d Army by routing two Soviet tank corps and surrounding a third. My northern flank is starting to be a headache though. If the Soviets were stronger, I would be running serious risks there, or maybe I already am...




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 6/30/2011 10:11:43 AM >

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 10:06:19 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		My forces are very worn down however, as can be seen from this closeup of 2d Panzer Army on its way to a tryst with destiny at Stalingrad. The CVs are depressingly low. The only consolation is that the enemy is just as weak.





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Post #: 259
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 10:13:34 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Losses and OOB after Axis turn 65. Losses from the recent pockets bring Soviet losses above 8 million.




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Post #: 260
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 10:18:30 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		It was some time since I posted production, so I add that for the benefit of future scholars. Filtered to Germany.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 10:20:57 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		And the number of Rifle squads, as that was an issue in the past.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 10:45:48 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Southern half of front after Axis moves. 2d Panzer Army breaks through to the sothwest and cuts the railway between Rostov and Stalingrad. The situation is beginning to look precarious for the Soviet forces in the Donbass. Now I have a new conundrum. Turn right and head for Rostov to cut off the Soviet southern front, or turn left to take Stalingrad?

I suspect though, that STAVKA might be withdrawing the Southern Front to Rostov...


Rostov!


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 263
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 1:21:34 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		I agree with Leo on Rostov. The only reason you are headed for Stalingrad is the industry there and he can move that. You don't mind a stretched front, but not that much.

Getting to Rostov (and just to the south if you can swing it) is also the activation trigger to bring in AG A and B. (This happens regardless in 1943, but given the overload situation, I would think sooner is better). Going for Rostov also will result in a shorten line for you eventually not to mention trapping more Russians.

Finally, Rostov keeps you on mission: destruction of Russian counters if you can get any type of encirclement.

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Post #: 264
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 1:28:37 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I agree with Leo on Rostov. The only reason you are headed for Stalingrad is the industry there and he can move that. You don't mind a stretched front, but not that much.

Getting to Rostov (and just to the south if you can swing it) is also the activation trigger to bring in AG A and B. (This happens regardless in 1943, but given the overload situation, I would think sooner is better). Going for Rostov also will result in a shorten line for you eventually not to mention trapping more Russians.

Finally, Rostov keeps you on mission: destruction of Russian counters if you can get any type of encirclement.



Hmm, maybe you're right. But Stalingrad is somehow... symbolic. But maybe I wouldn't have much fun in Stalingrad... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRpPGRZ1pE

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Post #: 265
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 6/30/2011 1:36:57 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I have to agree on Rostov; he is probably already moving or has moved all the industry in Stalingrad, which accomplishes the objective of disrupting production there.

If he has any reserves at all, they can easily hold you up along the Don by Kalach. Maybe he doesn't, but chances are you can fall short.

Turn toward Rostov, the worst that can happen is that he pulls out of that bulge, uncovering alot of population and straightening your line.

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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 7/2/2011 7:03:10 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 66. Sepember 17 1942.

Why settle for one objective when you can try for two at the same time? What could possibly go wrong?

Soviet defenses are weak and 2d Panzer Army goes for Rostov, while 1st and 4th aim for Stalingrad. There is still a substantial amount of industry there.

I am surprised STAVKA isn't reacting to the threat against Rostov, but maybe Stalingrad has gotten all the attention...

The units on trains south of Stalino are reinforcements sent to the area in preparation for a push east to connect with 2d Panzer Army.




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 7/2/2011 7:05:02 AM >

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Post #: 267
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 7/2/2011 1:14:08 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 67. September 24 1942.

1st and 4th Panzer Armies have battled their way to the suburbs of Stalingrad.

Meanwhile, 2d Panzer Army breaks through to the west, encircling Rostov to the north and south. Once the start to meneuver, the Soviet forces in the Donbass seem like an empty shell, they are falling apart. Hungarian armor break through in the north, while 11th Army makes a break in the front at Stalino. Here resistance is stubborn however, and there is no breakthrough to contact 2d Panzer Army.




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RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 7/2/2011 1:16:28 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Closeup of the Stalingrad area. A brave but pitifully weak Panzer Division has cut the rail connections to the east.

Both armies are exhausted, note low CV of units on both sides.




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 7/2/2011 1:17:41 PM >

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Post #: 269
RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) - 7/2/2011 1:20:28 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		The rail situation is good. I have not used buildup at all during 1942. The mobile divisions usually have 30-40 MP anyway, except for the last two turns, when distance to railheads is beginning to tell.




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