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RE: Changing Commands - 7/13/2011 3:46:19 AM

plund

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I was asked to make this suggestion to michaelm in this forum from a previous thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2849781

quote:

Has anyone considered making a small graphic change to the Restricted commands so that the permanently restricted commands that are unchangeable use the square brackets like [R] while the ones that can be changd use the current round brackets (R). Does anyone think that this is feasible?

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/13/2011 8:20:14 AM

Chris21wen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: plund

I was asked to make this suggestion to michaelm in this forum from a previous thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2849781

quote:

Has anyone considered making a small graphic change to the Restricted commands so that the permanently restricted commands that are unchangeable use the square brackets like [R] while the ones that can be changd use the current round brackets (R). Does anyone think that this is feasible?

Or even a different colour maybe?

(in reply to plund)

Post #: 2

RE: Changing Commands - 7/13/2011 9:44:59 AM

plund

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I think that a character change might be better than a color change because the filters can't take color into acount when they sort. Also the character change might just be a database adjustment and probably doesn't need a programming alteration.

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Post #: 3

RE: Changing Commands - 7/13/2011 4:06:53 PM

michaelm75au

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Can probably change it to (R) and [R] for temp and perm respectively.

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/13/2011 6:33:28 PM

Sardaukar

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/14/2011 2:18:11 AM

Blackhorse

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+1

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/16/2011 9:56:11 AM

BigDuke66

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+1

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Post #: 7

RE: Changing Commands - 7/22/2011 9:50:49 AM

plund

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hi all,

I'm running the 1108p4 beta and checking out the designations for the Ironman scenario and do not quite understand what I am seeing.

for example units like the HQ KNIL Army Command at Batavia is assigned to Far East Cmd (ABDA) but this unit can never be reassigned to other commands.� shouldn't it read [ABDA]?

and the other way around:
HQ III India Corps at Johore Bahru�is assigned to Malaya Army[R] but it can be reassigned elsewhere with PP

Both of these units are just samples.� it seems like the character was changed but it is no more helpful than it was before.� there are still units that show [R] that can be reassigned and units that show (R) that cannot be changed.� there are also units that have no (R) or [R] in their name that can't be changed.� like the HQ Pacific Fleet based at Pearl Harbor is assigned to Pacific Fleet but cann never be changed. Is this right?

< Message edited by plund -- 7/22/2011 10:00:36 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Changing Commands - 7/22/2011 11:54:44 AM

michaelm75au

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quote:

ORIGINAL: plund

hi all,

I'm running the 1108p4 beta and checking out the designations for the Ironman scenario and do not quite understand what I am seeing.

for example units like the HQ KNIL Army Command at Batavia is assigned to Far East Cmd (ABDA) but this unit can never be reassigned to other commands.� shouldn't it read [ABDA]?

and the other way around:
HQ III India Corps at Johore Bahru�is assigned to Malaya Army[R] but it can be reassigned elsewhere with PP

Both of these units are just samples.� it seems like the character was changed but it is no more helpful than it was before.� there are still units that show [R] that can be reassigned and units that show (R) that cannot be changed.� there are also units that have no (R) or [R] in their name that can't be changed.� like the HQ Pacific Fleet based at Pearl Harbor is assigned to Pacific Fleet but cann never be changed. Is this right?

ABDA is not a restricted command itself.
If you look at other Dutch units attached to KNIL, you will see the KNIL HQ [R] meaning that they are attached to a permanent restricted HQ. The fact that KNIL can't be moved from ABDA is obvious as you can't click on the HQ name in the unit screen.
Probably ABDA should be marked as a permanent restricted HQ too, but that is not the way it is setup.

The 'R' indicator being (R) or [R] is really of use only as far as attaching other units from or to those HQs.
And yes the only change was to use () or [] depending on the alignment of said HQ. If it never showed a 'R' before the change, then it still wont show a 'R'.

BTW, we are talking about attaching units to HQs. Not the unit itself.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 7/22/2011 11:56:13 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Changing Commands - 7/22/2011 9:41:55 PM

plund

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hi michaelm

thanks for the explanation and it certainly works the way you describe. However I may not have been clear when I first suggested the change. When i go into the ground units menu I was hoping quickly and easily see which of my units can be reassigned to other commands. At this time it is not possible. I made the suggestion hoping for this to change. Is there any way to achieve this? I do not know what the other posters in this thread were thinking but that was my original idea -- to make it easier to know exactly which units can change when I bring up the LCU screen. I know that I can alwasy go into each unit to see if it can be changed or not but doesn't this kinda defeat the purpose of the LCU screen and filters?

Maybe it could work this way:

Instead of the HQ Pacific Fleet (assigned to Pacific Fleet), it could be renamed to "Pacific Fleet [R]" assigned to Pacific Fleet. This would be clear that the unit cann never be changed.

III Indian Corps could be named "III Indian Corps (R)" to show that it cann be changed in the future? HQ MLD could be "HQ MLD [R]" to show that it can never change.

maybe the simplest solution might be to have the [R] in the unit name if it cann never be changed. by default this could mean that any unit name without any [R] designation is automaticlly known to be changable.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by plund -- 7/22/2011 9:48:36 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Changing Commands - 7/23/2011 1:54:23 AM

michaelm75au

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To add the [R] to the unit name, is going to caused some units to lose some of their name space. The unit names in some cases are very long and the screen space very limited. The 'New Zealand Command' is an example.

I think that I may need to add this to the mouse over instead.

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Post #: 11

RE: Changing Commands - 7/23/2011 2:18:37 AM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

To add the [R] to the unit name, is going to caused some units to lose some of their name space. The unit names in some cases are very long and the screen space very limited. The 'New Zealand Command' is an example.

I think that I may need to add this to the mouse over instead.

Just thinking out loud here....

- "R" versus "r" (no brackets or parentheses, just upper versus lower case)

- "R" in RED for permanent restricted versus "r" in GREEN for changeable

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Post #: 12

RE: Changing Commands - 7/23/2011 3:19:00 AM

michaelm75au

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There seems to be some confusion as well.

The 'R' designation meant attached to Restricted HQ.
But there is also the 'Static attached' option for units which has nothing to do with the restricted HQ designation.

This 'Static Attached' I think is what is being referred to. There is no obvious indicator on lists to show such units.

On the list, the Attached HQ will be shown in grey if the unit is permanently attached (Static) to it.

I have added the mouse over details (strength, withdraw, upgrade) too to help with quick decisions about unit.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by michaelm -- 7/23/2011 6:18:31 AM >

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/23/2011 3:49:37 PM

Blackhorse

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Thanks for all the great work on this.

Even though "greying" the static attached units won't allow for sorting, as a practical matter it should still work (pull up a list of all Australian Command ground units, for example, and within one or two screens the player can easily identify all the units that cannot change HQs).

But what is the deal with "Southwest Pacific" (a Command HQ) being static attached to Australia Command in the screenshot? Is this just a mock-up for display purposes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

There seems to be some confusion as well.

The 'R' designation meant attached to Restricted HQ.
But there is also the 'Static attached' option for units which has nothing to do with the restricted HQ designation.

This 'Static Attached' I think is what is being referred to. There is no obvious indicator on lists to show such units.

On the list, the Attached HQ will be shown in grey if the unit is permanently attached (Static) to it.

I have added the mouse over details (strength, withdraw, upgrade) too to help with quick decisions about unit.

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Post #: 14

RE: Changing Commands - 7/23/2011 7:14:28 PM

plund

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

There seems to be some confusion as well.

The 'R' designation meant attached to Restricted HQ.
But there is also the 'Static attached' option for units which has nothing to do with the restricted HQ designation.

This 'Static Attached' I think is what is being referred to. There is no obvious indicator on lists to show such units.

On the list, the Attached HQ will be shown in grey if the unit is permanently attached (Static) to it.

I think that making units whos command cannot be changed into grey is an excellent idea. However it should be noted that there are units that cannot change command but are not static.

HQ China Command is static and cannot be changed and is located at Chungking. HQ India Command cannot change command either but it is not static. It can still march where it likes even if it cannot be loaded onto ships.

As long as the both the static and non-static units that cannot change commands are given grey then this feature will be pefect. Thanks for considering the change.

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 15

RE: Changing Commands - 7/23/2011 7:29:20 PM

Blackhorse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: plund
I think that making units whos command cannot be changed into grey is an excellent idea. However it should be noted that there are units that cannot change command but are not static.

HQ China Command is static and cannot be changed and is located at Chungking. HQ India Command cannot change command either but it is not static. It can still march where it likes even if it cannot be loaded onto ships.

As long as the both the static and non-static units that cannot change commands are given grey then this feature will be pefect. Thanks for considering the change.

Static Attached is a term-of-art in AE -- it refers to land units whose HQ attachments cannot be changed. The unit itself may be mobile, or static.

It is easy to be confused, especially as there is another term, "Restricted Permanent," in the editor, that looks more appropriate. However, Restricted Permanent (and Restricted Temporary) only apply to how HQ units are attached to other HQ units.

In retrospect, "Static Attached" may not have been the perfect choice of words, but I think we can work our way through any confusions or misunderstandings.

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/25/2011 11:52:56 PM

plund

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

Static Attached is a term-of-art in AE -- it refers to land units whose HQ attachments cannot be changed. The unit itself may be mobile, or static.

Thanks for hte explanation. If the proper term is Static Attached, then is it possible to have all those units marked with the light gray too? In Sian there are two HQ units. Both are composed of only support devuices yet one appears in gray while the other in white. Neither unit can be reassigned to new commands and both are mobile. The gray lettering is already very helpful. isnt it logical to have both kinds of units appear in the gray color?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by plund -- 7/25/2011 11:53:13 PM >

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/26/2011 3:02:40 AM

BigDuke66

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Marking the HQ of a unit in gray should show that command can't be changed, not more but also not less.
If there also needs to be a sign to show if the unit is mobile or static I simply advise to add a * at the end of the name for every static unit.

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/26/2011 8:44:00 AM

LargeSlowTarget

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"Attached to" > grey = HQ cannot be changed

"Name" > grey = unit is static and cannot move

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/26/2011 10:02:23 AM

michaelm75au

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

Thanks for all the great work on this.

Even though "greying" the static attached units won't allow for sorting, as a practical matter it should still work (pull up a list of all Australian Command ground units, for example, and within one or two screens the player can easily identify all the units that cannot change HQs).

But what is the deal with "Southwest Pacific" (a Command HQ) being static attached to Australia Command in the screenshot? Is this just a mock-up for display purposes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

There seems to be some confusion as well.

The 'R' designation meant attached to Restricted HQ.
But there is also the 'Static attached' option for units which has nothing to do with the restricted HQ designation.

This 'Static Attached' I think is what is being referred to. There is no obvious indicator on lists to show such units.

On the list, the Attached HQ will be shown in grey if the unit is permanently attached (Static) to it.

I have added the mouse over details (strength, withdraw, upgrade) too to help with quick decisions about unit.

I took it out of one of the 200+ 'bug' saves I have. Have no idea which scenario it is based on though.

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/26/2011 10:06:19 AM

Blackhorse

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Only 200+ 'bug' saves, eh?

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/26/2011 10:12:46 AM

michaelm75au

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quote:

ORIGINAL: plund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

Static Attached is a term-of-art in AE -- it refers to land units whose HQ attachments cannot be changed. The unit itself may be mobile, or static.

Thanks for hte explanation. If the proper term is Static Attached, then is it possible to have all those units marked with the light gray too? In Sian there are two HQ units. Both are composed of only support devuices yet one appears in gray while the other in white. Neither unit can be reassigned to new commands and both are mobile. The gray lettering is already very helpful. isnt it logical to have both kinds of units appear in the gray color?

I think what you are seeing is a case where it the HQ is permanently attached AND it is static attached as well.

My test for the color was based only one or the other, not both. I'll just change it to do the 'static' check in addition to..
[edit]
Some places already to this but not across the board.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 7/26/2011 10:13:39 AM >

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RE: Changing Commands - 7/26/2011 10:41:50 AM

michaelm75au

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