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Suggestion to enhance supply rules.

 
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Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 5/23/2011 1:22:35 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		PART A

The manual is not clear, but I think is checked only once a day at the start of the 6am turn.

It means that if you place an enemy unit out of supply during the 8am turn, he remains in full supply for 22 hours till the next 6am turn.

I suggest supply be checked every turn! If that means a unit is put out of supply too easily, then instead of having 3 levels of supply, change it to 6 levels of supply.

= = = = = = = = =

PART B

The 3 movement types are Leg, Wheel or Track.

At the moment, the only terrain that supply cannot be traced through is enemy ZOC. This means that Wheel and Tracked vehicles can trace supply through terrain that they could never drive across.

My suggestion is that a unit can trace supply, only through a hex that he could pass through if he had started the turn adjacent to that hex.


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Post #: 1
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 5/23/2011 12:35:17 PM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline 		I hope someone is saving all this knowledge about the game.

Thanks Joe.

(in reply to Fred98)
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RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 5/23/2011 1:01:52 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		I am   

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RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/2/2011 2:54:25 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Bump

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RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/3/2011 1:03:13 PM   
MichaelCooney

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 1/14/2002
Status: offline 		Did the units supply themselves then versus having it delivered?  I mean, did the tracked units send tracked vehicles to get supplies and the guys on foot hoofed it back and forth for supplies?  I remember pondering this when coding it up but I never followed up with Dave Erickson (game designer). I guess I figured they'd use whatever conveyance was called for to get the supplies through.


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RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/3/2011 4:35:25 PM   
Ralph1961


Posts: 184
Joined: 10/4/2001
Status: offline 		I have both of the Shrapnel Combat Command games with the printed manual, it sounds like the Matrix version doesn't have clear instructions??? Per the desert rats man...supply is checked every day at the 6:00 am turn and if no supply can be traced you do lose one level of supply
Full supply means units function normally. Limited reduces attack strength or bombardment factors by 1/3
none means units lose 0-1 level of quality during the supply status phase. there is a 50% chance of losing one point of quality, if the unit regains supply it regains original quality.
On another note.... I have dealt with Michael on several of his games and found that he was very responsive to player input. I see that he and Erickson haven't produced another game in several years so maybe he was/is semi-retired from pc programming???? I am sure it is an extremely tough to etch out a living competing with the big boys and their huge budgets. Thank goodness we have Matrix !!

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RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/4/2011 1:12:06 PM   
PirateJock


Posts: 465
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: North West, UK
Status: offline 		Supply would have been from the service company associated with that unit, at the regimental or battalion level, by whatever means were available. I don't think that there needs to be a restriction on supply based on the unit type. An armour unit would not rely on armour to deliver supplies.

I reckon a daily supply check is OK; ideally units would begin an operation with a couple of days' supply of ammo and fuel. If their supply line was subsequently disrupted it would take a 2 days to run out.

One way of developing the way supply is modelled would be to take into account the activity of a unit, i.e. lots of fighting = run out of supplies quicker. However I think this would entail a lot of coding to implement. Maybe something for the future ... possibly

Cheers

(in reply to Ralph1961)
Post #: 7
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/8/2011 1:58:12 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MichaelCooney

I mean, did the tracked units send tracked vehicles to get supplies and the guys on foot hoofed it back and forth for supplies? 




A trackled unit would be supplied by trucks. But to keep the game play simple, I would be happy if we say that tracked vehicles are supplied by tracked vehicles.


The thing is tracked vehicles ( or wheeled vehicles) cannot be supplied by infantry, because the vehicles might possibly be well ahead of the infantry.

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Post #: 8
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/12/2011 7:40:58 PM   
Obsolete


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Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I suggest supply be checked every turn!


This could lead to quite a few exploits and other problems.

I wouldn't be surprised if the original design wanted the supply check to be done every 48 hours, but knew that people would simply complain and then demand that it be done every 24 hours :P

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. If I have a box of bullets in my knapsack, and 2 hours pass, just because a tank roams into a hex somewhere in the distance which may cut off my future supply for tomorrow, shouldn't mean that I instantly lose my box of bullets.




< Message edited by Obsolete -- 7/12/2011 7:42:42 PM >

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King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

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RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/12/2011 7:52:00 PM   
Obsolete


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Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

At the moment, the only terrain that supply cannot be traced through is enemy ZOC.


I did do a supply test recently.

I placed a river around an infantry hex so it was enclosed 360 deg.

I then started the scenario at 2 am. That infantry immediately dropped to Limited Supply from Full. Then when the 6 am supply phase came around, it dropped (as expected) from limited to no-supply.



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King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

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Post #: 10
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/12/2011 10:59:46 PM   
PirateJock


Posts: 465
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: North West, UK
Status: offline 		Strangely I did the same test and got both infantry units in Full supply at start and after the 0600 supply check ...





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 11
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/13/2011 5:58:26 PM   
MichaelCooney

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 1/14/2002
Status: offline 		Yes, you're both right.  The bug is quirky, in that the angle and distance of the unit to the supply depot affects if it's found or not.

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Boku Strategy Games, Developer of Combat Command and Horse & Musket

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Post #: 12
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/13/2011 7:10:53 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		As a side-note, when I added a couple bridges, the supply got through as expected.

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King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

(in reply to MichaelCooney)
Post #: 13
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/14/2011 12:39:20 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		I note that Command has a range so I feel that Supply too should have a range to keep things consistant.

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Post #: 14
RE: Suggestion to enhance supply rules. - 7/17/2011 1:51:01 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		Hmm, I think that is a game/logistics mechanic that is open up to a whole new debate.Supply can come in many different forms, from smuggling through jungle, to dropping from the sky. I guess my main problem in trying to compare them, is I'm not an expert on exactly how command ranges are abstracted.


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King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

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