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No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 9:20:04 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Am I seeing this right? If I go to upgrade one of my core units to a better unit, it appears to cost the same as if I purchased a new unit? Shouldn't it cost less to upgrade a Pz 1 to a Pz 2 than to buy a brand new Pz 2?

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 9:37:07 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		That is strange. I hadn't noticed it before, but checking right before the french campaign, you seem to be right. My planes and artillery seem ok, but tanks and infantry appear to upgrade at full cost. Maybe it's different classes, like MKIII tanks are cheaper when upgrading to a later MKIII version. But if you want to change to a MKIV you pay full price? I'll have to watch more carefully.

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 9:37:26 PM   
Razz1


Posts: 2560
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		You are correct.

Only units in same class get a discount. Pz III to Pz III

Were the Pz 1's and 2's on different chassis?

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 9:40:58 PM   
vonRocko

 

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Status: offline 		How about infantry? It looks like you pay full price to change a regular into a pionere, for example.

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 10:14:33 PM   
Razz1


Posts: 2560
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From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Those are two different types.


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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 10:27:53 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		I had to go back and change my Poland strategy a little as a result. I had thought if I buy a couple towed 10.5cm howitzers I could upgrade them for cheap later, however, now I realize I should have bought two self propelled 10.5cms first. That makes it cheaper. The lesson seems to be, if you are going to purchase a new unit, purchase only the very best because second rate units are just going to cost you double in the long run when you go to upgrade them.

IMO upgrades should cost a little less. That way you can buy second rate equipment with the hopes of upgrading it later. As it stands now, it's a major drawback to buy any second rate equipment.

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 10:41:23 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		Yeah, time to start again. This makes those starting pzI and pzII a liability. I might not buy a new unit till France. Well, maybe a fighter.

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/17/2011 11:40:58 PM   
Jestre

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 8/8/2006
From: Rhode Island
Status: offline 		The cost of a unit should reflect the equipment and the manpower/training. Upgrading a unit should only reflect the equipment cost.

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/18/2011 12:32:59 AM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I had to go back and change my Poland strategy a little as a result. I had thought if I buy a couple towed 10.5cm howitzers I could upgrade them for cheap later, however, now I realize I should have bought two self propelled 10.5cms first. That makes it cheaper. The lesson seems to be, if you are going to purchase a new unit, purchase only the very best because second rate units are just going to cost you double in the long run when you go to upgrade them.

IMO upgrades should cost a little less. That way you can buy second rate equipment with the hopes of upgrading it later. As it stands now, it's a major drawback to buy any second rate equipment.


Good point.

When you upgrade to new unit you should always get "somthing" for the old unit too. Now you just pay full cost of new unit and give away the old for free.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 7/18/2011 8:37:02 AM >

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/18/2011 1:34:00 AM   
Razz1


Posts: 2560
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From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		^ You do!


you keep your experience.

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/18/2011 3:15:56 PM   
colberki

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am happy that Lodz Studio designed PC as such - no more PG style gamey upgrade tactics. I myself bought a He III in Poland only to find its full price to switch to a Ju 88. Good game balancing - I like very much the tougher single player campaign.

I echo the comments of another gamer on the forum - build up a strong fighter force early - you need them in most scenarios and increasing so else you will be throwing a low experience fighter against increasing numerous Soviet air force which will result either in more prestige spent to maintain experience or a downward spiral if you take regular replacements.

I am thinking of restarting a new campaign after reaching Kiev. Due to lack of prestige, I have many unused cores slots. Difficulty is Colonel.

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Post #: 11
RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/20/2011 1:54:52 PM   
fsp


Posts: 77
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline 		I like that change a lot as well. It forces you to have lots of different equipment instead of just state-of-the-art equipment, which simply feels nicer.


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Post #: 12
RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/20/2011 3:21:08 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
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quote:

Shouldn't it cost less to upgrade a Pz 1 to a Pz 2 than to buy a brand new Pz 2?


Well, yes, I do agree with you. Originally there was no discount, and I pushed during the beta to have some sort of discount because you even had a penalty for upgrading (losing exp). The developers then added a mechanic where you get a discount if you upgrade within the SAME CLASS.  So, Upgrading one model of a PzIII to another PzIII gives a discount, but upgrading a PzIII to a PzIV isn't going to give you such a deal.

Interestingly, a Tiger I does give an upgrade discount to a King, and that one is probably highly debatable.

In any case, upgrading your units in PC as much as in PG is probably going to find you with a much harder campaign.





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King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

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RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/20/2011 3:54:40 PM   
Rudankort


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete
Interestingly, a Tiger I does give an upgrade discount to a King, and that one is probably highly debatable.


Not any more.

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Post #: 14
RE: No break on upgrades? - 7/20/2011 5:40:19 PM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		Well as you can see, it was debatable :P

My problem now is my games are 100% online so I don't get much time to do any campaigning in the current distro. I'm sure there are many more changes I'm not fully aware, but I'm satisfied with still learning something new every day in the on-line scenarios.


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King-Tigers don't let Tiger-I's get over-run.

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