RE: A new day will dawn

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RE: A new day will dawn - 7/12/2010 5:07:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

...

Good enough Jose, 60%, 50% no big deal but where I Felt the difference was
the other non AI comments were broken up into PBEM, hot seat, etc which in the long run I guess it is still 50/50 so your right. When you say not so frequent posters are you referring to Wif board game players who just happen onto this forum? From the posts I have read it seems to me outside of myself and a very few others most posters are WIF board game people.

Bo

Well, what I mean is that there is a good percentage of the forum members who are hardcore board WIF gamers, which is logical, because we (WIF gamers) are the most interested in MWIF, much more than you people who don't know the board game. I mean : which is the percentage of computer gamers who follow this forum and which the percentage of wiffers?

So, at the beginning of the survey I was astonished that the percentage of people (including me) who would play (only?) with AI was so low.

I think this was so because the most frequent visitors of the forum were us, the hardcore wif gamers. As soon as the rest of the people, who mostly only visit us from time to time (or from semester to semester) if I remember all this well, the poll started to change and the result was what we mentione.

That's why I say it's biased. If the poll had been posted in Matrix forums Main Page, proba bly the results would have been 10 to 1 in favour of AI or more.

Gee Jose I hope nobody yawns at our posts

I agree with everything you said in your post, I dont remember an early poll with very few wanting an AI but if you say so then its so. I understand your desire for PBEM or hot seat because in the past it has always been comradeship of playing together in someones home drinking soda

and just enjoying each others company while you play, but I am sure many times as we get older that is harder and harder to do[get together do to family commitments etc] that is where I feel a decent AI might become invaluable when you want to play and no one is available for a short period of time, could be wrong though.

Bo

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 121

RE: A new day will dawn - 7/12/2010 6:44:00 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Patience

Well that table didn't translate well., Well there's an attachment now.

You should be able to include screen shots, et al by using the Reply button in the upper right corner of each post. If you use the Fast Reply I think you have fewer choices. Anyway, when you use the Reply button, click the check box "Embed picture in post", and then click on "Click here to upload". Then you can browse your disk(s) for the JPG or GIF file (those are the only 2 accepted formats. There is a limit on file size, but it is fairly generous.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Patience)

Post #: 122

RE: A new day will dawn - 7/12/2010 6:59:53 PM

Joseignacio

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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bo
Gee Jose I hope nobody yawns at our posts I agree with everything you said in your post, I dont remember an early poll with very few wanting an AI but if you say so then its so. I understand your desire for PBEM or hot seat because in the past it has always been comradeship of playing together in someones home drinking soda and just enjoying each others company while you play, but I am sure many times as we get older that is harder and harder to do[get together do to family commitments etc] that is where I feel a decent AI might become invaluable when you want to play and no one is available for a short period of time, could be wrong though.

Bo

Bo, we are referring to the same survey, it's just that when I counted by myself the votes at the early times of that survey, I think I was the only or one of the very few for whom AI was more than 50% of the value of the game (in my case 90%). That was wide earlier than Steven's table of results.

You can see my post in the second page of the poll thread (i think, or third). By then the advantage of No AI (necessary) was overwhelming because it was answered first by all the dayly or weekly posters (the wif fans). Later, other individuals who were just popping in or who come much less (check the posts' numbers) inclined the balance the other side.

The game will not be sold massively only with the wiffers market, for this we need the strategy games public, and this is the profile of the later posters, they NEED an AI.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 7/12/2010 7:00:14 PM >

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 123

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 8/11/2010 11:08:49 PM

ACMW

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From: Norway
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I play WiF once a year with 3 or 4 mates. We get together for 9 or 10 days and have been doing so since 89. We currently live in Norway (2), England (2) and Scotland (1) and so having a well-coded, reliable, comprehensive (& attractive) tool for distributed play would be perfect. I will buy the game without AI. I think all 5 of us would. I would pay almost any price for it. I am not interested in the AI and don't anticipate using it. Numdydar, you asked if there were others that subscribe to your view. Well, I'm in. I post rarely - but do follow many posts. I suspect that there are others like me.

_____________________________

The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons. (Emerson)

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 124

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 8/13/2010 2:54:36 AM

BallyJ

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Joined: 5/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ACMW

I play WiF once a year with 3 or 4 mates. We get together for 9 or 10 days and have been doing so since 89. We currently live in Norway (2), England (2) and Scotland (1) and so having a well-coded, reliable, comprehensive (& attractive) tool for distributed play would be perfect. I will buy the game without AI. I think all 5 of us would. I would pay almost any price for it. I am not interested in the AI and don't anticipate using it. Numdydar, you asked if there were others that subscribe to your view. Well, I'm in. I post rarely - but do follow many posts. I suspect that there are others like me.

For what it is worth I am sure the group I play with would buy thr game with or without an AI

(in reply to ACMW)

Post #: 125

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/21/2011 11:32:07 AM

Joseignacio

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I must say that the delay of the game, along with the evident advantages that I can see playing even with CWIF made me change my mind.

I am also now for a release even withouht an AI, cause enforcing the rules + a facility that CWIF lacks, which is network play could really change my WIF life, from 0 hours a year to many. We are having more problems to meet physically...

(in reply to Anendrue)

Post #: 126

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/21/2011 2:41:53 PM

micheljq

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Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I must say that the delay of the game, along with the evident advantages that I can see playing even with CWIF made me change my mind.

I am also now for a release even withouht an AI, cause enforcing the rules + a facility that CWIF lacks, which is network play could really change my WIF life, from 0 hours a year to many. We are having more problems to meet physically...

I want PBeM and Netplay, AI will always be boring with time. I know this discussion is old and it was decided with an AI just venting.

I am just imagining how a PBeM game could be as compared with Vassal, which is already great.

< Message edited by micheljq -- 7/21/2011 2:44:21 PM >

_____________________________

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"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
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(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 127

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/21/2011 7:32:20 PM

dudalb_slith

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Joined: 6/20/2002
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Releasing CWIF without an AI opponent is not feasible from a sales point of view. The hardcore WIF fans who would buy it are not enough to make it a sucess, and the lack of AI would get it hammered in reviews.
The problem is for a game that has taken this long and cost this much to make,you need sales from a lot more then the hardline fanbase to make it a sucess. That is the facts of life.
And don't us MMO's like World of Warcraft as an example. Totally different animals.

(in reply to micheljq)

Post #: 128

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/21/2011 10:08:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dudalb

Releasing CWIF without an AI opponent is not�feasible from a sales point of view. The hardcore WIF fans who would buy it are not enough to make it a sucess, and the lack of AI would get it hammered in reviews.
The problem is for a game that has taken this long and cost this much to make,you need sales from a lot more then the hardline fanbase to make it a sucess. That is the facts of life.
And don't us MMO's like World of Warcraft as an example. Totally different animals.

Wow do I remember those posts whew! Boy did I have a lot of apologizing to do when my big mouth ran rampant about having an AI or no AI in the game. My feelings came from the fact that I had never played a game without an AI and have never played any game with net play or PBEM so I was very AI positive. About six months ago I did try PBEM with another player playing Wastelands [great name fits them perfectly] Storm over the Pacific, what a joke, talk about screwed up, this set me back a quite a bit about PBEM but I feel Steve will do the PBEM and net play to every ones satisfaction. The AI's are a mystery to the programming world, rarely has an AI ever worked well in a war computer game, take the SC series at Battlefront, adequate is the best I can give it, 3rd Reich was abysmal etc., but dubalb you are 100% correct they would be hammered in the gaming mags and my feeling is that for this game to be successful for Matrix and Steve the non hardcore people who play war games other than WIF probably would not buy it. [but not sure of that though] I am willing to see the game come out without an AI to speed it up but I think that kind of thinking is passe now, there will be an AI, end of story.

Bo

(in reply to dudalb_slith)

Post #: 129

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/22/2011 12:50:07 PM

oscar72se

Posts: 100
Joined: 8/28/2006
From: Gothenburg Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dudalb

Releasing CWIF without an AI opponent is not�feasible from a sales point of view. The hardcore WIF fans who would buy it are not enough to make it a sucess, and the lack of AI would get it hammered in reviews.
The problem is for a game that has taken this long and cost this much to make,you need sales from a lot more then the hardline fanbase to make it a sucess. That is the facts of life.
And don't us MMO's like World of Warcraft as an example. Totally different animals.

Considering the time spent on this game, I'm guessing MWIF would need to be sold in the millions to be a business success

Regards,
Oscar

(in reply to dudalb_slith)

Post #: 130

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/22/2011 3:07:00 PM

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Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oscar72se

quote:

ORIGINAL: dudalb

Releasing CWIF without an AI opponent is not�feasible from a sales point of view. The hardcore WIF fans who would buy it are not enough to make it a sucess, and the lack of AI would get it hammered in reviews.
The problem is for a game that has taken this long and cost this much to make,you need sales from a lot more then the hardline fanbase to make it a sucess. That is the facts of life.
And don't us MMO's like World of Warcraft as an example. Totally different animals.

Considering the time spent on this game, I'm guessing MWIF would need to be sold in the millions to be a business success

Regards,
Oscar

Not really Oscar [wish I were in Sweden right now with this heat here

] I just did some math with the members list, and wow! If I have calculated right in just the A's list there is 2190 members and if you times that by 26 you have 56,940 members plus a few more for the more common names and a little less for the Z's

This means that if all the members buy the game and with just a little help from the outside of the WIF world that will be all that is needed to reap fame and fortune for Matrix and Steve, then Steve can finish renovating his condo and buy that little grass shack in Haleiwa he always wanted as a vacation home on the beautiful island of Oahu and surf off into the sunset. Or, small or, maybe he will contemplate doing MWIF2

(in reply to oscar72se)

Post #: 131

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/22/2011 3:16:12 PM

Joseignacio

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Are those MWIF members or MAtrix Forum Members?

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 132

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/22/2011 6:03:24 PM

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Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Are those MWIF members or MAtrix Forum Members?

I don't know which Jose I got the information from the members list above, probably forum members.

Bo

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 133

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/22/2011 7:38:47 PM

Joseignacio

Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Are those MWIF members or MAtrix Forum Members?

I don't know which Jose I got the information from the members list above, probably forum members.

Bo

That's what I was suggesting. :)

(in reply to bo)

Post #: 134

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/22/2011 8:38:33 PM

38special

Posts: 24
Joined: 2/26/2007
From: Northern Virginia
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I would buy the game without AI, but that is because I know people interested in playing the game ftf. Our current game is in 1942 and the Germans are building 1944 year fighters!
The Japanese attacked pearl with 11 carriers six turns[so41] ago and sank 4 carriers and the New Jersey! My fault with the current game are the US Entry rules and would like to see them improved upon.

_____________________________

Arrogance is the next best thing to being there.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 135

RE: A suggestion to Matrix - 7/22/2011 8:58:19 PM

Ullern

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 38special

I would buy the game without AI, but that is because I know people interested in playing the game ftf. Our current game is in 1942 and the Germans are building 1944 year fighters!
The Japanese attacked pearl with 11 carriers six turns[so41] ago and sank 4 carriers and the New Jersey! My fault with the current game are the US Entry rules and would like to see them improved upon.

I agree there are issues with the US entry systems. But I house ruled the worst one:
We let the USA sums the effect of all US-entry actions and if the sum divided by 10 is more than one chit off the current total of entry + tension chits then the USA will auto gain or auto loose a chit. There will still be a great variation in the chit values, because of the way the chits a drawn.

(in reply to 38special)

Post #: 136