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Bad math - 7/24/2011 3:51:22 PM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		Honestly I'm not sure what is the cause. But a land attack on Oslo from surrounding hexes with over 2/3 movement at over 40-1 odds should not fail under any circumstances. As far as I'm concerned this game is 'grounded' until this issue gets resolved. That and the fact that the turn ended right away has me perplexed. Ralph has obviously taken apart yet another aspect of the game that actually worked, and has decided to play with the numbers. Apparently to him 're-working' the game trumps anything to actually improve the game. To me this renders the game unplayable. I'll keep checking to see when it's fixed. Don't worry, after 7 years I've learned that you have to measure a matrix game's progress in decades. I only hope I have enough left.
Post #: 1
RE: Bad math - 7/24/2011 4:16:36 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:  Xerxes I.

Honestly I'm not sure what is the cause. But a land attack on the Thermopylae pass from the Spercheios River at over 40-1 odds shouldn't fail under any circumstances...



Well, Xerxes attacked not only once and in the end he got across that pass...

You can't conclude from one failed attempt that the math is broken. Statistics.. try several times and see what's the average.

Btw, a 180 degree attack (meaning attacking from three adjacent hexes) won't get the flanking bonus if an adjacent hex is either impassable or occupied by another enemy unit. See the What's New for 3.2.


< Message edited by Telumar -- 7/24/2011 4:19:03 PM >

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RE: Bad math - 7/24/2011 4:26:17 PM   
Panama


Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline 		Some kind of documentation would be good. If it is indeed a problem then yes, it needs to be looked at.

Gads, I'm starting to sound like Bob.

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RE: Bad math - 7/24/2011 4:42:28 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline 		Specifically:

Has there been defensive artillery support or air support or naval support to the attacked unit? Has it been a flanking attack? Did you have any artillery, air, naval support? Cooperation levels? Have the defenders been entrenched? If so, to which 'degree'? Is it a urban, dense urban or ruined (dense) urban hex? What was the Attack Ratio as displayed in the combat planer? Was there any other terrain factor like an attack from a river hex? What's the size of the commander's boots?

And running several, actually a lot of times, and see how often this attack fails. Statistics.

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Post #: 4
RE: Bad math - 7/24/2011 5:32:19 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Post the .sal file from just prior to the offending attack so that we can have look at what is going on. It sounds very interesting!

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Post #: 5
RE: Bad math - 7/25/2011 1:39:55 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar

Specifically:

Has there been defensive artillery support or air support or naval support to the attacked unit? Has it been a flanking attack? Did you have any artillery, air, naval support? Cooperation levels? Have the defenders been entrenched? If so, to which 'degree'? Is it a urban, dense urban or ruined (dense) urban hex? What was the Attack Ratio as displayed in the combat planer? Was there any other terrain factor like an attack from a river hex? What's the size of the commander's boots?

And running several, actually a lot of times, and see how often this attack fails. Statistics.


Need to know what the terrain was in Oslo - especially if there was Fortified Line. Also, loss tolerances of the attackers - especially if Minimize Losses. And, AP ratio may not matter if defender was all armor - especially if attacker has little AT. Furthermore, did the attackers all have sufficient MPs to enter the hex?

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Post #: 6
RE: Bad math - 7/25/2011 1:54:07 PM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		And it seems like only yesterday I was able to upload a zipfile to my post. Am I losing my mind? Matrix just now stopped allowing that? I can email it to anyone who PMs me. Anyway it was over 40-1 odds. The Norwegian 1-1 likely had no movement left when they arrived in Oslo, so I doubt they were even defending. The Germans had massive air support over Oslo and air superiority. I rarely would make such a lopsided attack except that it was Oslo and I needed to re-establish supply after 2 Inf divisions attacked from it the previous turn with almost no movement left and yet both somehow managed to advance from Oslo across a river. All my attacking units had green supply markers. I later replayed the turn and the attack went as it should have.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 7/25/2011 1:58:19 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Bad math - 7/25/2011 5:34:07 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Kamerad 'Kriegsmarine',

rename the .zip to a .txt and post the .sal, ja? Would like to test it, with your permission.

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 8
RE: Bad math - 7/25/2011 8:23:54 PM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		They're saying the file is too large.

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Post #: 9
RE: Bad math - 7/26/2011 4:49:13 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		Here are the attachment limits for all the boards:

Main - 200KB; gif/txt/jpg
Spt - 200KB; gif/txt/jpg/zip
AAR - 500KB; gif/txt/jpg/png
Opp - 200KB; gif/txt/jpg
War - 200KB; gif/txt/jpg
SnD - 250KB; gif/txt/jpg/zip
FdB - 200Kb; gif/txt/jpg

So you can try the Scenario Design Board or the AAR Board.

I gotta get this stuff posted where I can find it.

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Post #: 10
RE: Bad math - 7/26/2011 6:49:40 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

They're saying the file is too large.


As Bob says.

Or load up it up to a filehoster. Rapidshare i.e. Or send by E-Mail: cariundel at yahoo de.

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Post #: 11
RE: Bad math - 7/27/2011 1:47:00 AM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		I mailed it to him. I just noticed something else. Ina sea battle my German Navy attacked with all it's heavy ship -including z-plan builds 4 pocket battleships, 2 battlecruisers, 2 older battleships ALL WITH A RANGE OF 2 FROM 2 HEXES AWAY and yet lost 7 of these heavies to an enemy stack that only had a range of 1 a bunch of destroyers and a couple old cruisers. At this point I have to laugh as if I'm seeing the emperor naked. I like a lot of you guys. You're all grognards like myself. But even though it didn't start in great shape, this game is being driven into a ditch. And their only recourse is to minimalize a guy like me who is willing to speak out. This game is a joke!

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Post #: 12
RE: Bad math - 7/27/2011 2:20:47 AM   
Panama


Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline 		How is it you are the only one coming up with this stuff? Have you inadvertantly changed some settings? Just wondering because it sounds like some crazy stuff is going on. Are you playing a scenario made for an earlier version with the new build?

< Message edited by Panama -- 7/27/2011 2:21:00 AM >

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