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Coming Soon to Kazaa (**** it) - 9/26/2002 7:47:18 PM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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Joined: 12/29/2000
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Was over at a buddy's place last night.

He has been out of town a year so figured would go and visit, besides needed a bit of fresh air.

He was going to finally show me Battlefield 1942. It is all the rage with some gamers apparently.

My friend is not really a wargamer. What he is , is young, smart, and good with a computer. He found a ripped copy of the game on Kazaa. He showed me how simple that is too.

Type in the name and look for conspicuous files (the several hundred meg ones). Poof you can get any **** thing you want.

Fortunately he is so in love with the game he intends to buy it. But don't think that will be the majority response.

It's disheartening. Because here is the reason finally folks. This is the answer.

There is NO "Decline in Wargaming", that thread is a waste of our energies. There is merely a decline in computer wargaming revenue potentials.

There ARE "board games" being produced in the same old way. They have the same old prices, they have the same old circulation rates. They might be benefiting from designers making use of computers in the grahics department.

But anyone designing a computer game is fighting a process that a board game designer isn't. Yes I know I can find some obscure jerk in some obscure far eastern country making bootleg copies of board games. The cost to get a phoney game here is the same to buy the real thing. I will settle for the real thing.

Software being nothing but electronic data, is entirely vulnerable. It doesn't require any magical effort to make it available in the end.

Could it be this is a fluke case. NO!

On at least a positive note (thank god there is at least one), if you want a very fun looking experience, I suggest you buy Battlefield 1942.

And remember, you got that advisory from Les, the guy that hates FPS games.
The graphics are stunning, the game play is incredible, ok the game has no realism at all when you consider it for a moment, but the game is incredibly fun looking.
Playability, **** it looks so incredibly easy to play. Fight anywhere in WW2, fight using aaaaaanything. Play with up to 64 of your buddies in a single online game setting.

The game is accurate if accuracy is limited to the visual appeal.
Of course in the real world I can't fly a plane jump out in a parachute, land on a carrier beach it, take over a tank, drive it around blowing up everything in sight, take over a bomber and save the day all by myself. But you can in this game.

I can't speak for any other online multi user games set in WW2, because I don't know them. I would be surprised though if they can currently top this one.

I won't be found playing it (remember I am still Les the guy that doesn't like FPS games), but the FPS crowd doesn't want to miss this one. In my opinion.

But enjoy it while you can dudes, until the industry solves the problem of people giving away your games, you are not likely going to see wargames made for long, people can't afford to make wargames for free indefinitely.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

Post #: 1

A different beast? - 9/27/2002 9:52:19 PM

sprior

Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
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Maybe what we're dealing with here is 2 different markets - the first person market does overlap with board-games-on-computers but, I think, most of the guys who play the bgoc are:
1. Intelligent and relativley affluent (other wise how would we afford the damned things and
2. Mostly honest

The correct response is for us, that is the intelligent, affluent and mostly honest ones, is to keep buying the games we want to play. Let's face it, if you rip a game from Kazaa and onl;y take it because it's free you probably weren't going to buy it anyway.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

Post #: 2

- 9/28/2002 12:23:04 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
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I like to think we wargamers are a special breed, but there is to much of the "it couldn't happen to me" in that line of thinking.

I DON"T think we are special. I think wargaming is a fine hobby, but I am sure we have a share of jerks.
I can think of one company in fact, that is run by a "jerk". But you will have to dig into past threads to locate the name.

My main comment, is that when MMP releases Operation Veritable, I will have a chance to buy it, or go without. There will NOT be any alternative.
But when Matrix releases Combat Leader, it will appear on the net like everything else, cracked and ready for free.

I am concerned that this might impact sales. But I have absolutely no way of knowing.

It might just be a "cost of doing business" thing too for that matter. I have worked in a convenience store. It's just calculated into doing business, that some of the stock will get stolen.

Sad statement on humanity, but then consider what is being stolen here....wargames....war is a sad statement on humanity too in the end.

Wouldn't it be grand if the human race had no war related subjects to simulate, read about or model in plastic?

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

Post #: 3

- 9/28/2002 12:52:57 AM

sprior

Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
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Yeah, then we could concentrate on important stuff - like cricket.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

Post #: 4

- 9/28/2002 1:23:23 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

There is certainly a grain of truth to what you say Les, and personally I think there is a lot more of that sort of thing going around than anyone wants to admit, but its not like it just started a couple of years ago.

It might be more accesible, but those who wanted a free copy of the original Steel Panthers could get one with not a significantly greater effort than one will be able to rip-off Combat Leader.

WHile i think its easier today, and more people do it, I don;t think its a significantly greater "raw number" today then it was when SP origianlly sold 50k+ copies.

ITs an issue, and why we use copy protection to "keep the honest honest" and a happy side effect of issuing lots of patches (requiring fresh hacks).

I think the "decline of wargaming" is more about the issues that got teh most response on the poll thread.

Pirating IS a factor, but I don't think its the DOMINANT factor in as you describe it "the lack of profitability" in wargaming. That is an unfortunate combination of number of factors.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

Post #: 5

- 9/28/2002 2:53:35 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

By the way - in a related story therewas no Charles S. Roberts award winner for "Best 20th century wargame" of 2001.

There was insufficient reponse to nominate any candidates.

I don't think that is because of pirating...might be lack of quality products, but Shrapnel and HPS put out several 20th century games (campaign series most notably) that were greeted by decent reviews.

Nobody seemed to care. At least enough to nominate...

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

Post #: 6

- 10/16/2002 8:39:30 AM

Dean Robb

Posts: 204
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Va Beach, VA USA
Status: offline

I'm inclined to agree to a point on the piracy issue; the point being that in some respects developers have brought the piracy problem upon themselves.

With a few notable exceptions - like Matrix - you buy software, especially games, on hope. Even in those cases (less common every day, it seems) where demos are available, you can't trust the demo to be like the actual game. With return rules as they are - break the shrink-wrap and you own the software - buyers are often left with expensive, crappy software.

In no other purchasing field are you forced to buy the product without some kind of vetting procedure. You try on clothes, walkthrough a house, test drive a car, etc. But you buy software sight unseen. And since there are no consumer protection laws for software, if it sucks - or wipes your HD...oh well!

I freely admit that I've pirated software - ethically. By that I mean that if it's good, I'll fork over the $$ because I want the support and the developer deserves it. If it's bad, I won't waste the HD space. But piracy gives me a chance to test-drive the software.

If a consumer had some way to protect himself from crappy bloatware at inflated prices, I truly believe that piracy would not be *as severe* a problem as it is. And unfortunately, there's no way to know how many "pirates" end up buying the software...

_____________________________

Job Security: Being a Micro$oft lawyer...

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

Post #: 7

- 10/16/2002 9:31:24 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
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Mom would say things like two wrongs don't make a right etc etc.

Me I have to agree on one comment, it is odd that there is no way the consumer can "return" defective software.

But the problem is not made easy by the fact you can't copy your car and return it, nor the house or the jeans you just bought nor that Big Mac or the new power tool.

Software is a victim of its existence. It is just data.

I have a copy of Panzer Commander, didn't pay a cent for it.
Now I don't knoooooow this, but I am fairly comfortable with the idea it was returned to the store casually.
It sat in the store a dead product till one day a store clerk offered it to me for free after me stating it would be nice to find a tank sim.
The game was a few years old, and quite dead as a shelf item.
It has been opened.

I don't know anything about programming. I parrot what I hear from the techies I know. One comment that I heard a good while ago, was that programmers were getting increasingly sloppy with code. More and more programmers were just assuming a shoddy program would manage based on ever increasing hardware power.

That is unforgivable in my opinion.

My biggest beef will always be Windows though.

I faithfully purchased Win 3.1 and Win 95. That SOB Bill didn't even offer us vaseline.
My copy of XP I obtained "free". Sorry Bill get stuffed, you owed me after that farce process you began with Win 95 and then went on to give us a OS flavour of the month while you figured out what you were doing.

I have seen some fairly blah wargames come and go, but in truth I have not seen any garbage yet.
I like to support my hobby with my wallet.
The nice thing about the net, is you can get a great wealth of input about any game in existence if you really want to.

I have not yet bought a game thinking "is this game any good?".
I have already been fairly informed.

Demos....my idea of a demo is my buddy saying hey look at this game Leslie, and proceeeding to show me it in action.
I generally won't purchase a game based on a demo, unless the demo is able to show the actual game in progress. But I also think demos like that can cause as much harm as good.

I won't seek the high ground of righteousness though. I could care less of the needs of programmers outside of wargaming. I haven't the funds to care in the first place.

I either end up with friends just giving me the copies (they automatically assume I will be dying to get it like they were), or I end up with the games after the fad dies down with my them (amazing how fickle most gamers can be).

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

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Coming Soon to Kazaa (**** it)