neuromancer
Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
I'm wondering if there are simple auto victory rules that players could agree to and use as house rules. Do they need to be so complex that players can't track them for themselves? For example would some players say taking Leningrad, Moscow and Rostov in 1941 would constitute an auto-victory? What about the Soviets having to hold a certain number of key cities each turn during 1941? Could a table be devised that allowed players to check for themselves? I realize that many want an official solution coded into the game, but why not start out with some user created house rules? It sounds like several of you have ideas in mind already, why not flesh out some and try them out?
That's not a bad idea.
The second part about holding a certain number of key cities at different points of 1941 makes sense.
Perhaps a start point would be to look at the historical performance of the Wehrmacht, identifying important cities within the Soviet Union that fell at certain points (a nice map I found has it broken up into various periods). If the Germans are doing significantly better than this, the Soviets lose.
Its primarily a game thing to prevent completely unrealistic strategies (see my original post here), but its also not unreasonable to assume a poor showing at defence of the motherland would have had political repercussions. The Soviets were a bit stressed when they realized how fast the Germans actually were advancing, if they had advanced significantly better its not too hard to imagine there being severe political fallout. The war wouldn't have ended, the USSR wouldn't have surrendered (although the upheaval would have been a serious distraction at an important time), but the top people who had been responsible for the current state of affairs would have - if they were lucky - spent the next few years in a Siberian Gulag (if Stalin had lost the faith of his top aides they would have attempted to assassinate him, much as there were attempts on Hitler, even if he survived several top people would end up taking the fall for the entire thing).
This is mostly about winning or losing the game, not the war. We all know that it is extrememly unlikely the Germans could have won the war, so this is about the game.
Here is a good map, I think its in French, but its not hard to figure out. There are four periods, to 9th July, to 1st September, to 9th September (big advance in the South during this period) and to 9th December. It also includes the primarily lines of advance, and where the major encirclements occurred (for informational purposes).
East Front 1941
So we could figure out how many key cities fell in each period (and what a key city is also needs to be defined). Then we determine periods (I think monthly is good July 9, Aug. 9, Sept. 9, Oct. 9, Nov. 9, and Dec. 9 - tied to the actual game turns of course) and say if the Soviets have lost X cities at the end of their July 9 turn, Y at the end of their Aug. 9 turn, etc. then they have lost.
Using the labelled cities on the map for illustrative purposes (probably not the best choice for the House Rule, but I think adequate for the example), by July 9 the Germans had actually taken 8 of the cities. By September 9 the Germans had taken 32.
So, as a number off the top of my head, lets say if the Soviets have lost 16 by July 9, 23 by Aug. 9, or 40 by Sept. 9 - they LOSE! Those numbers are simply doubling the original number, then determining the rough half way point between the July and September numbers and adding 8, and adding 8 to the September number. So they may need tweaking, if they don't force the Soviets to actually make an attempt at defending any more than is already typically the case, then they need to be tweaked downwards, if however it proves impossible to defend, then the numbers need to be tweaked upwards.
And as stated, those numbers are also based on the reference map I used. The important locations in the game would likely be different.
Option A would be to identify certain important cities (Riga, Tallinn, Minsk, Kiev, Smolensk, Odessa, etc., etc.) and list them, then determine a reasonable number for the periods in question.
Option B would be to identify every urban hex of a certain size or larger, and simply state that losing Y number of these urban hexes would be fatal (thus losing half of Kiev could still be fatal). The advantage of this is that it could be checked with a sorted Commander's Report, although it could sneak up on you too "What? I didn't realize... Dammit!". I'd still recommend making a list for reference purposes.
I think this would help in many ways, not the least of which is forcing the Soviet player into a forward defence.
Of course the problem with it being a house rule is having to make the effort to identify them manually. But if you only have to do it every 4 turns or so, and you have a print out with the cities and you when the VP checks are to be made, it shouldn't be too difficult.
Also note, I specifically state that the Soviets LOSE, not that the Axis win. My view of the current game is that it is the Sovet's to lose and that as long as they don't do anything too dumb they shouldn't lose. Which is part of the idea here, to put a bit more pressure on the Soviet player.
Discuss.
< Message edited by neuromancer -- 7/26/2011 11:48:26 PM >
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Printable Version
SUDDEN DEATH! - 
Some day they might even get coded, although maybe not until WitE 2.0.
RE: SUDDEN DEATH! - 
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