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Cross of Iron - 10/2/2002 10:40:21 PM   
drwho007

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Topeka,Ks
Status: offline 		I think that Cross of Iron was a Great War Movie. It had it all.

But the other sequal Breakthrough was Crap.
Post #: 1
- 10/2/2002 11:04:40 PM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		As is the case with most situations, when a book is made into a movie, somethung is always lost. The book was a lot better than the movie. Read it if you can find it.

:D :D

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Post #: 2
- 10/3/2002 12:49:32 AM   
Bunker22

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Status: offline 		The real sequel to the book is another one called "Crack of Doom", which is a story of german units fighting partisans in Yuguslavia.
Great book, as good as Cross of Iron, give it a try if you really liked the former.

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Post #: 3
- 10/3/2002 2:51:36 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		What other WWII novels are worth the read? I just finished "War of the Rats" and thought it was pretty good, but not the best book I've read. I like historic fiction, so I can learn a little but be entertained a lot.

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Post #: 4
- 10/3/2002 2:58:49 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		There are 2 excellent books by Franz Kurowski, Infantry Aces and Panzer Aces that deal with Knight's Cross recipients. Some of the accounts are almost detailed enough to design scenarios by. For a totally different experience read King Rat by James Clavell. Deals with POW's in Singapore. Fictional but a very good read.

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Post #: 5
- 10/3/2002 3:18:40 AM   
Bunker22

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Status: offline 		If you liked the battle of Stalingrad go read [B]Enemy at the Gates" by Willian Craig[/B]
War of the rats is a story of the dual between those faggot snipers, and "enemy at the Gates" is the best book about the entire battle. It holds your breath.


Another excelent book is [B]"Hitler Moves East. 1941-1942" by Paul Carrel[/B] , it tells the nazi invasion of the soviet Union with various small stories from small units. Like the story of a Sargent plus some 14 other men left behind the lines (much like Cross of Iron), and each man holding a MG-34. They defend a small village from endless soviet waves. The end....I will not tell. MG-34 cross fire is just frightening. hehehehe.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0836207084/103-0079951-2122235

[B] "Panzer Commander"[/B] - The memoirs of Colonel Hans von Luck. Awasome book, fought almost in all fronts, easy and enjoyable reading
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440208025/103-0079951-2122235

[B] "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer [/B] . Memories of a front soldier. The best available. Excelent Book.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0899668437/103-0079951-2122235

Last one, i promisse :) [B] "Gates of Fire: The battle of Thermopilae" [/B] . 800 Spartan knights defending the Thermopilae pass from 200.000 soldiers of the King of Kings, Darius himself. In my humble opinion the best book I ever read. But not WWII related.
[B] "Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, That here, obedient to their laws we lie"[/B]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553580531/103-0079951-2122235

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Post #: 6
- 10/3/2002 10:24:39 AM   
Brigz


Posts: 1162
Joined: 1/20/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bunker22
[B]
Last one, i promisse :) [B] "Gates of Fire: The battle of Thermopilae" [/B] . 800 Spartan knights defending the Thermopilae pass from 200.000 soldiers of the King of Kings, Darius himself. In my humble opinion the best book I ever read. But not WWII related.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Excellent! I just watched the History Channel's series "The Rise anb Fall of the Spartans." Very fascinating. Now I'd like to read the book you just mentioned. Do you happen to have the author's name?

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Post #: 7
- 10/3/2002 5:47:22 PM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Breakthrough[/QUOTE]

Sequal?

What happens in that? Is it based on any book?


Thanks

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You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


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Post #: 8
- 10/3/2002 7:09:07 PM   
Bunker22

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Status: offline 		I placed the link there....
The Author´s name is Steven Pressfield.
Amazing reading !

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Post #: 9
Forgotten Soldier - 10/3/2002 8:32:26 PM   
boomboom

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: philadelphia
Status: offline 		best book I ever read.Sajer was seventeen serveing in the German army inRussian from 42 till the end.

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Post #: 10
Re: Forgotten Soldier - 10/16/2002 12:29:29 PM   
J.Wood

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/1/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by boomboom
[B]best book I ever read.Sajer was seventeen serveing in the German army inRussian from 42 till the end. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, in the "17th Bn" of Grossdeutschland. That book is fiction, entertaining, yes, but pure FICTION. Last I checked, there are 3 or 4 bn's in a rgt, not 17. The amount of glaring inaccuracies, especially in light of the fact that he claims to be a GD panzergrenadier, is just too many to be believed. He puts his division under the wrong commander, as part of the wrong friggin' army group, claims his supply convoy drove alone from Minsk to the Don steppe [that's what trains are for], passing an SS-Kompanie on the way to Stalingrad [oh yeah, there weren't any SS units in Stalingrad, oops], etc etc. Entertaining fiction, but no more. Almost as ludicrous as the Penal-SS-Panzer Battalion tripe that keeps finding a publisher...geez, it's almost like the editors of the tabloids write "military history" in their spare time.

J

ps: second the recommendation for Kurowski's "Infantry Aces". Truly gripping stuff. No one bleeds more or shows greater heroism day in and day out, than the infantry.

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Post #: 11
- 10/17/2002 1:02:45 PM   
SwampYankee68


Posts: 1186
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Connecticut, U.S.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bunker22
....War of the rats is a story of the dual between those faggot snipers....
[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL!

Spoken like a true FPS player!

God, I hate playing games like Medal of Honor or Ghost Recon with Snipers.....

Any WWII fan would do himself a favor to read Steven Ambrose's books such as Band of Brothers, D-Day, Wild Blue, Pegasus Bridge, and Citizen Soldiers. His recent death was a great loss to military historians.

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Post #: 12
- 10/17/2002 8:18:29 PM   
Bunker22

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Status: offline 		" Things I've learned about war from videogames: If you find yourself mortally wounded by an enemy sniper be sure to let him know that he is a faggot."
- IRC Quote

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Post #: 13
- 10/18/2002 2:01:36 PM   
SwampYankee68


Posts: 1186
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Connecticut, U.S.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bunker22
[B]" Things I've learned about war from videogames: If you find yourself mortally wounded by an enemy sniper be sure to let him know that he is a faggot."
- IRC Quote [/B][/QUOTE]

LOL!

It always makes me feel better as I wait to respawn....

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Post #: 14
- 10/26/2002 9:22:11 AM   
wulfir


Posts: 3091
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]What other WWII novels are worth the read? I just finished "War of the Rats" and thought it was pretty good, but not the best book I've read. I like historic fiction, so I can learn a little but be entertained a lot. [/B][/QUOTE]


"Unknown Soldier" - by Väinö Linna - superb book, in fact there is none better. Follows a Finnish MG company during the continuation war.

A Piece of Cake - by Derek Robinson - good book. An unglamorous story of some RAF fighter pilots from the begining of the war until the Battle of Britain.

Battle Cry - by Leon Uris, follows a few US Marines in the Pacific. Good book.




Guy Sajer's the Forgotten Soldier was a major disapointment. AFAIK it's BS.

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Post #: 15
- 10/26/2002 6:00:48 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		Agreed on the Guy Sayer points here. Although it "might" be a nice novel to read, the discussion about the book is most controversial.

IMHO it´s made up bullshit. There are way better books out there:

For example:

Beyond the beachhead - Joseph Balkoski
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0811726827/qid=1035629313/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-1208480-6253446?v=glance

Pegasus Bridge - Stephen E. Ambrose
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671671561/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/103-1208480-6253446?v=glance

08/15 (fictious novel, a three books series) - Hans Hellmut Kirst

The Bridge (autobiographical novel ) - Manfred Gregor


Just a few of many ....

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Post #: 16
- 11/25/2002 3:16:06 AM   
Waylander

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Pattaya, Chonburi, Thailand
Status: offline 		Sajer was discredited a long time ago, one good thing about the nazi's they kept good records, however anyone remember the "similar" book about ex-ss fighting in Vietnam, great read but I never knew if it was true??

regards
Waylander

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Post #: 17
- 11/25/2002 4:38:39 AM   
Chijohnaok2


Posts: 628
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Florida, USA (formerly Chicago)
Status: offline 		>>>
Sajer was discredited a long time ago, one good thing about the nazi's they kept good records, however anyone remember the "similar" book about ex-ss fighting in Vietnam, great read but I never knew if it was true??

regards
Waylander
<<<<<<<<<

Cannot cite a historical reference to substantiate that but I think it would be possible in this respect. I believe that there were former Wehrmacht soldiers who joined the French Foreign Legion after WWII. The Legion did participate in during the French-Indochina war.

Here is a reference from the French Embassy's USA website that substantiates the legions participation:

1945: the Indochina war began. Every Foreign Legion regiment was represented on the battlefield, particularly in Phu Tong Hoa, the Colonial Road 4, and Dien Bien Phu, where they fought to the last man.[B]1945: the Indochina war began. Every Foreign Legion regiment was represented on the battlefield, particularly in Phu Tong Hoa, the Colonial Road 4, and Dien Bien Phu, where they fought to the last man.[/B] [I]1945: the Indochina war began. Every Foreign Legion regiment was represented on the battlefield, particularly in Phu Tong Hoa, the Colonial Road 4, and Dien Bien Phu, where they fought to the last man.[/I]
http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/legion/history.asp


So it would seem entirely possible that former members of the SS fought in Vietnam.

John

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Post #: 18
- 11/25/2002 3:25:27 PM   
Raindog101


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/17/2002
From: Hole-in-the-Wall
Status: offline 		Does anyone remember the "Gunner Asch" novels by Hans Helmut Kirst? They were a series about a dis-illusioned German soldier and his adventures on the Russian Front. They were written in the 60's and if you can find one now they are about $40 to $50 for a dog eared paperback. They were outstanding. Hans Kirst was an infantryman in the wehrmact and has some really interesting points of view. He is also so sarcastic, its hilarious. He also wrote "The Night of the Generals" which was made into a movie. The book about the SS in the RVN was called "The Devil's Guard" I believe.

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Post #: 19
- 11/25/2002 6:24:50 PM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline 		"Night of the Generals" was a good show.....Peter O'tool I think.

_____________________________

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil

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Post #: 20
- 11/25/2002 7:47:01 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Old Eagle101
[B]Does anyone remember the "Gunner Asch" novels by Hans Helmut Kirst? They were a series about a dis-illusioned German soldier and his adventures on the Russian Front. They were written in the 60's and if you can find one now they are about $40 to $50 for a dog eared paperback. They were outstanding. Hans Kirst was an infantryman in the wehrmact and has some really interesting points of view. He is also so sarcastic, its hilarious. He also wrote "The Night of the Generals" which was made into a movie. The book about the SS in the RVN was called "The Devil's Guard" I believe. [/B][/QUOTE]

See my post above.:

"08/15 (fictious novel, a three books series) - Hans Hellmut Kirst "

It´s one of my favourite books. Recently bought the DVD set of the 60s movie too.

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Post #: 21
- 11/26/2002 3:50:32 PM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]It´s one of my favourite books. Recently bought the DVD set of the 60s movie too.[/QUOTE]


What is the name of the set?

Thanks.

_____________________________

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil

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Post #: 22
- 11/26/2002 5:36:02 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		Well, " 08/15 " here in Germany, like the book.

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Post #: 23
- 11/26/2002 6:36:13 PM   
Raindog101


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/17/2002
From: Hole-in-the-Wall
Status: offline 		Hmmmm, I'm a little confused, sorry. Marc, are you saying the title of a 3 book series by Hans Helmut Kirst is "08/15"? I never heard of that series. The one I was talking about was a 4 book series about "Gunner Asch". I've been searching the net for the Gunner Asch books and haven't run across "08/15" What are they about?
A thousand apologies in advance if this is a stupid question.

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Post #: 24
- 11/26/2002 7:04:14 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		No, no stupid question at all. I assume that "Gunner Asch" is just a more common International title.

"08/15" is the german and original title. It´s the story of "Kanonier Asch - Gunner Asch". It´s is originally a 3 series book, however there was a late addition to the series about Kanonier Asch coming home and his live in after war Germany.

The first 3 parts are:

08/15 - In der Kaserne
08/15 - Im Krieg
08/15 - Bis zum bitteren Ende

and then added later

08/15 - In der Heimat


Actually the titel "08/15" is way better then just "Gunner Asch", but that of course only if you speak german.

"08/15" is/was a synonym for "boredom", "senseless repetition", "stupid military drill" and "commoness" in these/those days.

The Word "08/15" is derived from the german M.G. Maxim 08/15, which (having 350+ single parts) was widly used to drill recruits in assembling and dissasembling weapons.


For you (english speaking) DVD fans, check this, just found it:

http://www.ihffilm.com/0815.html

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Post #: 25
- 11/26/2002 7:42:44 PM   
Raindog101


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/17/2002
From: Hole-in-the-Wall
Status: offline 		Cool! thanks for the info. I feel like learning German to just watch those films. Aye the last Asch book was (in USA anyway) "What Ever Became of Gunner Asch". The 1st 3 were "The Revolt of Gunner Asch", Forward Gunner Asch" and the last one I cant remember. I read them about 30 years ago. I'm going to try and find them and read again. Do you think they will stand the test of time? Catch-22 does. That book never ages. I have a feeling neither will Gunner Asch.

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Post #: 26
- 11/27/2002 12:03:46 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		I´ve read the series 3 times now. First time I was around 8 IIRC. I have seen the movies before I bought the DVD set, I merely bought it to just "have it here". Well, It took me about 1 hour after the set arrived and I watched them another time ;).

The series is just to good to age.

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Post #: 27
- 11/27/2002 12:10:42 AM   
Kanon Fodder

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 9/8/2001
From: Portland, Orrygun
Status: offline 		Thanks for that link.

Now I will have yet another way to drain my bank account
;)

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Post #: 28
- 11/29/2002 11:14:42 AM   
Brigz


Posts: 1162
Joined: 1/20/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim1954
[B]As is the case with most situations, when a book is made into a movie, somethung is always lost. The book was a lot better than the movie. Read it if you can find it.

:D :D [/B][/QUOTE]

It's been a long time since I've read or seen "Cross of Iron". But am I wrong or when they made the movie didn't they take some of the events in the book out of sequence. I seem to remember the sequence of the Russian women getting revenge on the Germans at the farmhouse occuring at a different time in the movie than in the book. Anyone else notice that? I don't know, maybe it was just really good pot.

By the way: I already miss James Coburn. One of my favorites.

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Post #: 29
- 11/29/2002 1:55:45 PM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		Anyone remember when James Coburn guest starred in an episode of Combat! as the German soldier who infiltrated into the American squad? Anyhow ... he was always one of the coolest Hollywood actors :cool:

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