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Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades

 
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Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 1:08:19 AM   
FredSanford3

 

Posts: 567
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline 		The manual says that 2 or more Soviet Rifle Brigades can build up into Rifle Divisions, effective from the start of the game.

How is this done? The 'b' key doesn't work. They are not Naval brigades, they have movement points remaining, I have plenty of AP's (though I don't see where there's an AP cost for this) and they're in movement mode. What am I missing?
Post #: 1
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 1:21:33 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		I believe, its april or may 42, so until then you cant do it.

(in reply to FredSanford3)
Post #: 2
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 1:26:41 AM   
FredSanford3

 

Posts: 567
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline 		There's a mistake in the manual then.  Here's the exact language:

7.5.3.1. SOVIET BUILDUP AND BREAKDOWN AVAILABILITY
The Soviet ability to buildup or breakdown units is determined by date and type of unit as follows:
Rifle Division (22 June 41): Two or more rifle brigades can buildup into a rifle division. Note that Soviet rifle divisions may not breakdown into brigades. Naval brigades cannot buildup into divisions. See below for buildup of airborne brigades.

(in reply to Pawlock)
Post #: 3
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 1:36:22 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		It is a known mistake, do you have the updated manual which came with one of the last patches?

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Post #: 4
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 2:31:34 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		It was changed in the early versions of the game, iirc.

_____________________________

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Post #: 5
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 3:42:41 AM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		Don't do it. 2 divisions and 1 brigade makes 1 corps, that's what you want.

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Post #: 6
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 3:54:52 AM   
Hermann

 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		i tried the buildup with 3 brigades in a hex - all that happened was my brigades disapeared. ill try it with 2 later - needed a unit with zoc and it wasnt rail accessible. ill remember the corps thing though.

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Post #: 7
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 5:00:36 AM   
Vyper

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		V1.03 changed the rule.

Restricted Soviet Rifle brigades so they can’t merge into Rifle Divisions prior to May-
1942.


The manual just doesn't reflect the change.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 8
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 1:53:25 PM   
FredSanford3

 

Posts: 567
Joined: 6/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Don't do it. 2 divisions and 1 brigade makes 1 corps, that's what you want.

Put another way, 5 brigades makes a corps.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 9
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 5:27:57 PM   
Fänrik Stål


Posts: 108
Joined: 1/4/2006
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Don't do it. 2 divisions and 1 brigade makes 1 corps, that's what you want.

Put another way, 5 brigades makes a corps.

Yes, but that's a waste. For every 2 brigades you use together with 4 divisions for making corps, you save 2 divisions for making a third corps. So using this reasoning 3 brigades makes a corps.

< Message edited by Fänrik Stål -- 7/31/2011 5:29:07 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 6:44:57 PM   
FredSanford3

 

Posts: 567
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fänrik Stål

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Don't do it. 2 divisions and 1 brigade makes 1 corps, that's what you want.

Put another way, 5 brigades makes a corps.

Yes, but that's a waste. For every 2 brigades you use together with 4 divisions for making corps, you save 2 divisions for making a third corps. So using this reasoning 3 brigades makes a corps.

3 brigades and 6 divisions=21 brigade equivalents= 3 corps
5 brigades = 1 corps; 15 brigades = 3 corps = 6 fewer brigade equivalents.
The only thing you gain is fewer replacements needed to fill out the corps' TOEs. But the total AP cost is the same, and I'd rather have independent divisions rather than brigades.

(in reply to Fänrik Stål)
Post #: 11
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 10:09:38 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fänrik Stål

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Don't do it. 2 divisions and 1 brigade makes 1 corps, that's what you want.

Put another way, 5 brigades makes a corps.

Yes, but that's a waste. For every 2 brigades you use together with 4 divisions for making corps, you save 2 divisions for making a third corps. So using this reasoning 3 brigades makes a corps.

3 brigades and 6 divisions=21 brigade equivalents= 3 corps
5 brigades = 1 corps; 15 brigades = 3 corps = 6 fewer brigade equivalents.
The only thing you gain is fewer replacements needed to fill out the corps' TOEs. But the total AP cost is the same, and I'd rather have independent divisions rather than brigades.



Actually it is not. If you use two div and 1 bgd you will save 5 AP when building a corps; it takes longer to fill it out with replacements however. So it is simply a matter of what is importent to you: if AP then use 2+1, if time then use 3.

(in reply to FredSanford3)
Post #: 12
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 10:26:23 PM   
Fänrik Stål


Posts: 108
Joined: 1/4/2006
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fänrik Stål

quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Don't do it. 2 divisions and 1 brigade makes 1 corps, that's what you want.

Put another way, 5 brigades makes a corps.

Yes, but that's a waste. For every 2 brigades you use together with 4 divisions for making corps, you save 2 divisions for making a third corps. So using this reasoning 3 brigades makes a corps.

3 brigades and 6 divisions=21 brigade equivalents= 3 corps
5 brigades = 1 corps; 15 brigades = 3 corps = 6 fewer brigade equivalents.
The only thing you gain is fewer replacements needed to fill out the corps' TOEs. But the total AP cost is the same, and I'd rather have independent divisions rather than brigades.

The numbers are correct of course, but seeing that you already have the divisions on hand and don't have to make them from brigades, counting their brigade equivalents is irrelevant. If you have 15 brigades and 30 divisions, using my way you get 15 corps, using your way you get 13. I would argue that having more corps is preferable to having more independent divisions. But this may not apply to your style. The AP expenditure per corps is the same of course.

< Message edited by Fänrik Stål -- 7/31/2011 11:07:24 PM >

(in reply to FredSanford3)
Post #: 13
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 10:29:24 PM   
Fänrik Stål


Posts: 108
Joined: 1/4/2006
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack



Actually it is not. If you use two div and 1 bgd you will save 5 AP when building a corps;


Really? I never noticed that.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 14
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 10:55:10 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		If you want big, beefy, burly, and even overstrength rifle corps, use 3 divisions. Especially early on, when the rifle corps TOE is so low. (The first really good rifle corps TOE is in late 42.)

There's no economy in understrength rifle corps. God is on the side of the bigger battalions.



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Post #: 15
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 11:03:14 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

If you want big, beefy, burly, and even overstrength rifle corps, use 3 divisions. Especially early on, when the rifle corps TOE is so low. (The first really good rifle corps TOE is in late 42.)

There's no economy in understrength rifle corps. God is on the side of the bigger battalions.




Precisely, so I take the early 42 builds and put them in good rear positions to dig and train. My limiting factor is always AP so instead of using "use it or lose it" APs on a large stable of support units, I build weak, early-42-TOE infantry corp and let them slowly grow.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 16
RE: Building Rifle Divisions from Brigades - 7/31/2011 11:11:00 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I use those APs for other things.

I don't understand why anybody would want to build a guards rifle corps with a brigade in it in 1942 (and early on, this is the only rifle corps worth building.)



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Post #: 17
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