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Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/6/2011 3:13:44 AM

JamesM

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I am into November 1943 playing the Soviets against the computer. I have pushed the Axis back in the Ukraine, the AI kept pulling back to stop encirclements and as a result I slowed my attacks. Then in September and October 43 the AI did some major pull backs and left a number of units the were easily encirled (A Panzer division was forced to surrender by one of these major pull backs). Is this designed? Please see the this and the next post:

28 Oct 1943

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< Message edited by jamesm -- 8/6/2011 3:19:23 AM >

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/6/2011 3:14:50 AM

JamesM

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4 Nov 1943

Also in previous turns the AI pulled back from the from the extreme south of the line from the shorter front to a very long front on the Dnepr river.

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< Message edited by jamesm -- 8/6/2011 3:17:12 AM >

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/7/2011 10:37:51 PM

JamesM

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bump

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/7/2011 10:49:17 PM

larryfulkerson

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I agree, that is strange. What did YOU do to cause it? LOL

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/7/2011 11:55:30 PM

marcpennington

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I'm not sure if this is the cause of it, but an AI oddity I've noted myself might explain why the AI would leave panzer divisions behind when withdrawing. Namely, the AI would seem to process local counter attacks before it processes withdrawals. As an example, when I was playing as the Axis against the Soviet AI, in 1942 I had a fairly weak shield of Italian and Hungarian units protecting my flanks into the Caucauses. My German units were advancing both east from Stalingrad, and nearing Baku, hence making it quite logical for the AI to pull back before the Hungarian and Italian units, as it was in danger of being encircled from both it flanks, even if it had local superiority over the Axis allied armies. But quite a few times, the AI would first counterattack against the Italian units with tank corps and such, usually winning the battle. But then the AI would process its strategic retreat, so the rest of his units would pull back, leaving the tank corps that had attacked behind as they had used up their MPs... Obviously easy encirclements followed.

If that is the problem, it could be resolved quite easily by causing the AI to process first strategic withdrawals and then local counterattacks... There are a few obvious exploits that one could pull off against the AI that this switch would negate.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 4:36:25 AM

JamesM

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I noticed when I was fully attcking in 1943 the Axis would pull back to avoid encirclement but there was hardly any counter attacks to try and stop my attacks. Also I was facing heavy attacks in 1942 and my line was weak as a resut in a number of places, but then all attacks stopped one week and did not continue later on.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 6:04:56 AM

randallw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm

I noticed when I was fully attacking in 1943 the Axis would pull back to avoid encirclement but there was hardly any counter attacks to try and stop my attacks.� Also I was facing heavy attacks in 1942 and my line was weak as a result in a number of places, but then all attacks stopped one week and did not continue later on.

Yep, seen that a lot; the AI decides to stop attacking and goes into a WWI turtle mode, even if there's still a bunch of panzer divisions available.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 6:34:43 AM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm
I noticed when I was fully attcking in 1943 the Axis would pull back to avoid encirclement but there was hardly any counter attacks to try and stop my attacks.�

This is interesting; in the two GCs I've played against the German AI, I see exactly the opposite: the AI will basically sit there and allow itself to be encircled (at least on the scale of several divisions), and makes lots of counterattacks, many of them rather pointless.

My comments pertain to the summer of 1942, on a "Challenging" setting.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 8:04:00 AM

JocMeister

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Ha, I had almost the exact same thing happen to me!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2836891

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 9:33:06 AM

Redmarkus5

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Due to this and similar AI issues, the most annoying being the Soviet AI's ability to teleport masses of men across Russia each turn, I now only play PBEM. I actually purchased the game hoping to play primarily vs. the AI...

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 11:22:06 AM

Der Lwe

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Sorry if OT. But could someone elaborate about the "teleporting" issue. I noticed that the russian line went from a dence line of units to a "carpet" of units after a breaktrough. Is it that that is called "teleporting"?

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 12:59:17 PM

JocMeister

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The AI seems to be able to "teleport" units across the map with no regard to rail, zoc or movment restrictions. Thats why it can escape through encirclements a human could not. It also can move entire fronts worth of units to contain your breakthroughs. Although probably necessary for the AI to put up a decent fight it might be abit too much sometimes.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 1:07:51 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Due to this and similar AI issues, the most annoying being the Soviet AI's ability to teleport masses of men across Russia each turn, I now only play PBEM. I actually purchased the game hoping to play primarily vs. the AI...

Me too. I only play as Sovs (for now anyway), and the German AI gives a good game in 1941 on settings other than Normal. But once past the blizzard it just completely falls apart; hard to pinpoint the problem other than to say it does not try to maintain straight lines at all, and gets stuck in numerous salients which are then easy to encircle. Contrary to what other reports, I don't see that the AI likes to withdraw much.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 1:22:44 PM

Der Lwe

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Has this been validatet, that it is so? If so, what have the tech team done about it?

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 2:46:10 PM

JamesM

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When this happened I stopped playing the game and have no desire to go back to it. This AI issue could turn this other wise excellent game into a game that I wasplaying a lot into one of my rarely played games, as I have no interest in PBEM.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 2:57:14 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

Please post this in appropriate "Tech" subform together with accompanying savegame files (pre and post this behavior)!

Only that way we can look into this possible issue/problem...

Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 4:17:38 PM

JocMeister

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Please post this in appropriate "Tech" subform together with accompanying savegame files (pre and post this behavior)!

Only that way we can look into this possible issue/problem...

Leo "Apollo11"

I did that and offered savegames aswell but no one seemed interessed in looking at it.

(in reply to Apollo11)

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 4:19:12 PM

JamesM

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Done.

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RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 4:43:19 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Please post this in appropriate "Tech" subform together with accompanying savegame files (pre and post this behavior)!

Only that way we can look into this possible issue/problem...

I did that and offered savegames aswell but no one seemed interessed in looking at it.

Hmmm...

Please post the exact thread where you did that and I will check it out...

Leo "Apollo11"

P.S.
Joel is currently on vacation but I will post reminder to developer's forum...

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 19

RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 4:44:47 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

OK!

Please post the screenshoots (from this thread - you can just link them there) as well...

leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to JamesM)

Post #: 20

RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 8:39:02 PM

JocMeister

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Here it is:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2836891

Posted on the Tech forum about 2 months ago. Unfortunately I made a complete reinstall of Windows two weeks back so all saves are lost.

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Post #: 21

RE: Strange Axis AI behavior - 8/8/2011 10:01:20 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Here it is:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2836891

Posted on the Tech forum about 2 months ago. Unfortunately I made a complete reinstall of Windows two weeks back so all saves are lost.

You have to be persistent... there are many posts and few of us...

In any case the savegame files are what is needed and you don't have them any more... I hope/think that Gray can deduct what happened from "jamesm" savegame files...

Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________

Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 22