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Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 9:23:01 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Gents,

Some of you guys have already participated in momentous events of historic signficiance - especially those of you who have served in the military.

Most of us are now living in historic times - the economic upheavals of the past several years or so. Without a doubt this is the greatest economic crisis in America since the 1970s, and arguably since the Great Depression. These are times we will tell our grandchildren about. These are conditions that will change the way we look at money and credit and employment, so that our habits will be much different than those of the preceeding generation, and undoubtedly much different than those who come of age when good times return (eventually).

It looks like we are going to be the observors and recorders (via email, letters, diaries, etc.) of an era most similar to the era of the Dust Bowl, bread lines, and Civilian Conservation Corps. In other words, we're participating in history being made.

I hope we can self-regulate and avoid injecting ANY politics into this discussion (we're all mature adults, after all, though we have a hard time controlling ourselves on occasion). But, if we can avoid what might be the inevitable, I am interested in hearing how you guys - my brethern of the forum - are enduring (or perhaps thriving?) these tough times. How goes it for you?

Sincerely,

Canoe "I wonder if we can keep politics out of this?" Rebel
Post #: 1
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 9:28:42 PM   
xnavytc

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 1/28/2010
Status: offline 		not so good here in Texas, Cr, got laid off in Feb this year, havent found a job yet, running out of benefits too, going to be hard to keep the house and car much longer, know anyone around Austin or Waco with a job open?

Tran

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 2
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 9:32:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

(in reply to xnavytc)
Post #: 3
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 9:49:43 PM   
Paladin1dcs


Posts: 195
Joined: 7/7/2011
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		While I'm holding the line up here in WV so far, I'm stretched to the limit by taxes, cost of living and everything else that goes with modern life.  I know how xnavytc feels though because of the specialization of my job, if the economy tanks I'll be looking at a forced career change.  There's not much call for a Telecom Engineer when people are struggling just to put food on the table and keep a table on which to put what little food they can find.  I've already seen massive department cuts in the last two years and it's only a matter of time until it hits me unless the economy turns back around and after today, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 4
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 9:52:14 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Well if a "small european ex-Behind the Iron curtain country" is going to help Ireland, Greece, Spain and Italy with their national depts trying to keep Euro strong and not the other way around counts as making history, then we are right in the middle of something really BIG (and I hope it doesn't stink).

Myself working in Bank-IT sector, I've seen cutting our department employees by half. I wouldnt like to see that again. It isn't very comfortable to work in an environment where the only guestion is "who goes next?"

< Message edited by Barb -- 8/8/2011 9:54:08 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 9:55:27 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Word of caution - I'd like to keep the posts to what's going on in your lives - our lives - just like the first couple of rreplies.  This is intended to be about how we on the forum are participating in history.  Avoid at all costs things like national policy, because the inevitably leads to politics.


(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 6
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 9:59:15 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		I'm alright, although Gov't cutbacks might endanger my job at some point. I'm a Fed employee, so I am looking over my shoulder at Capitol hill (literally and figuratively). My wife has been unable to get a job (she's also a lawyer) for almost 9 months now.

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 7
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 10:06:14 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		A forum member, Panzerjager Hortlund IIRC, has a sig quote about the end of the era of self delusions and half measures and the beginning of an era of consequences. That sums it up well.

I look at my daughters and realize they will in all likelihood not have the same opportunities I did. I also have to confess, if I'm honest, that despite my own relative success I did not achieve as much as my father did. My job is secure for now, but I'm worried. My wife left her job to raise the kids, and we don't regret it, but are nervous about it for the first time.

I have a lot of thoughts on investments and the market as we are active traders, but that probably isn't what you're looking for.

God help us. I fear for the future. That sounds dramatic, but I truly believe we have entered the "bread and circus" phase of the Pax Americana.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 8/8/2011 10:08:56 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 8
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 10:25:19 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		In all cultures comes a stage when self-delusion, bacchian excess and the effects of lassitude come home to roost. It was so with the Hittites, the Persians, the Romans, the Zhou Dynasty and, more latterly other cultural hegemonies.

Occidental hegemony has transitioned westward over the last hundred years. This was viewed as inevitable and ever-lasting. As ever reality gives the lie to dreams of permanance and immutability. In the next 40 it will transition eastward barring cultural transformation and strong, non-ideological leadership. Unfortunately the only cultural transformation on the horizon is a liscentious regression which won't answer the great questions before us.

On the plus side there is a choice to be made between catastrophic collapse and gradual decline. Either way though the next ten years will be rough and at the end of that time the path will be much, much clearer. For those wishing to read ahead there's a nice 6 volume work which began to be published in 1776 which points the way forward.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 9
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 10:27:46 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Interesting thread CR.

I live in Alberta. I work in the survey oil and gas industry and we've suffered a long two years of wage reductions, some staff losing their jobs and a transitory period trying to bring this company kicking and screaming into the 21st century. All that said, I still have a job, the bills get paid and I still get 3 weeks vacation a year. I have enough model kits to last me until the day I die, so other than a few less toys I'm surviving.

As anyone else, I'm looking to improve both my financial means and quality of life. I'm currently working on my resume to look for a new job. Life's too short. I hate my current job and despite tough economic times, it's time to take a chance and find what is best for me, work that I can be proud of and hopefully meet a great new group of people to restore my hope in humanity.


< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 8/8/2011 10:58:38 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 10:28:27 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		As a professional economist, I would translate Nemo's words to mean 'we've screwed the pooch'.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 11
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 10:38:06 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Back to the OP's very tightly crafted question:

In Minnesota, Dan-there are four levels of income. From low to high:

"We're getting by"
"We're doing alright"
"We're blessed"
"None of your beeswax"

Dan, we've been doing surprisingly well. Definitely in the 'beeswax' category. I almost feel guilty about our station in life sometimes. Our income has grown over the past three years and my wife, after leaving the University, has more lucrative work than she knows what to do with. It hasn't been without some heart wrenching decisions and a leap of faith into the unknown for her LLC.

I have some trepidations about retirement investments. On days like today, I just mumble 'dollar cost averaging, dollar cost averaging' to myself.

But on the big picture things, we're doing the right things-paying off debt and living well below our means.

I struggle with how much of this to expose our kids to-they're both still very young. We're providing a basic financial education to our 7YO son, instilling in him the basic tenets of saving, living below one's means, planning for the future, etc. We'll start our 4YO daughter on an allowance next year.

I've given up on feeling guilty about doing well. Both my wife and I made significant sacrifices in terms of our educational upbringing, moving to where the jobs are and never got involved with competing with the Joneses for the latest and greatest. We've been fortunate that fate has not interceded with health issues or job issues or whatnot-true. But I won't feel guilty about saying that times are more prosperous for us now than they ever have been.

_____________________________


(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 12
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 10:38:55 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Ah but those, here, who speak clearly are attacked and misrepresented. Better to rely on an obfuscatory argot to opacify the issue such that those who would create falseness out of veracity cannot sufficiently grasp what was said to vivify their various verisimilitudinous dissimulations.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 13
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:00:55 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		As a professional economist, I have no transaltion for Nemo's last.

But to get to Dan's original question, I may be in a unique position relative to the majority of the forumites here. I am 63 years old with my retirement plans pretty much made and done. My kids are educated and long gone. All my stuff is paid off and my retirement portfolio is sufficient to provide a comfortable retirement, if all my planning assumptions hold true. But that is a very big if indeed.

In two years time, like it or not, my career will end. I will be coasting on the momentum I have built up to now. However, as noted by Nemo, the coming 10 years or so will redefine how our country views itself and its obligations. Whether or not the momentum folks like me will be enough to transition into that new world remains to be seen.

Paul (the oldest codger on the forum)

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 14
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:01:02 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Things are fine here in Kansass. I run a commodity trading firm that stretches across the Midwest, and business is very good. Wife stays at home now with our boy. Haven't really seen the affects other than prices at the store and such... we're very well off I would say. Our farm will be down this year other than cattle.

Our biggest problem right now is the drought, as I work in agriculture...we have ZERO dryland crops to speak of in Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas. Irrigated is fine, but has some problems....that means less bushels for my company to handle = less profits... yadayada... Agriculture will always be strong in my opinion. I am here to stay. It has been good to my family over the generations, and continues to be good to me.

Cb here here on the dollar cost averaging...I smell buying opportunities if one can stomach it actually. I have invested heavily in companies that make the majority of there profits from interest. Their stock has falling off heavily the last few years as rates are at 0 right now and they rates will go up (were not going to borrow at these levels forever), meaning their profit, and stock, will jump. Opporunity of a lifetime if you ask me. I am only investing in ones with a strong field...ex - agriculture. Also look for solid areas such as real estate, people will always need a roof over their head. Maslows Hierarchy of Needs anyone? If you have some money set aside please don't put it in the stock market or earn .05% at the bank...by all means become a landlord.


I too no longer feel guilty about doing well...Were doing great financially, health wise, and emotionally. I couldn't love our current status any more. This comes after the 7 hardest months of my life living apart with the new job....See my wife and boy everyday for lunch, then at home around 5 515. Live an hour from her entire family and in the same town as my folks and grandparents. Things are going a lot better here than what it seems like in other places. For us that is. Always saying prayers and keeping others in mind during these times. I have family members that are in the other boat, and it does NOT sound fun. Always here to talk to anyone who has questions or just likes to vent. Thinking of everyone.



< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 8/8/2011 11:02:02 PM >

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 15
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:05:23 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

As a professional economist, I have no transaltion for Nemo's last.



He was merely alliterating.

(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 16
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:09:17 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Chickenboy,

I hear you. My personal job situation is ok but not great. However, my Dad and I run the Cribtop Family investment portfolio, which is definitely in "none of your beeswax" land. Hard to say much more without getting political, but from my experience the belief that the top is getting higher while the middle and lower class is getting squeezed seems accurate.

_____________________________


(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 17
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:15:55 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		I've been getting in some more hours as of late. I'm still considered part time. No benefits, no vacation. I am getting by alright though. Just skimp a little here and a little there. Though my portfolio is in the tank. Down by at least 20% in the last several days. That is not helping any. Thanks be to God for farm rental income. That does help.
Looking to 2013 for any financial improvements to take hold.

_____________________________

This is one Czech that doesn't bounce.

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 18
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:19:18 PM   
LST Express


Posts: 571
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I'm 58 and the wife and I are doing fine right now. I worry more for the kids than us, our oldest boy is 24 and working and doing well on his own and the other is in college. I hope things will be as good for them in the future as it has been for us.  But to me, things in this country just don't feel right.  Unease is what I feel more than anything.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 19
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:20:17 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Gents,

Some of you guys have already participated in momentous events of historic signficiance - especially those of you who have served in the military.

Most of us are now living in historic times - the economic upheavals of the past several years or so. Without a doubt this is the greatest economic crisis in America since the 1970s, and arguably since the Great Depression. These are times we will tell our grandchildren about. These are conditions that will change the way we look at money and credit and employment, so that our habits will be much different than those of the preceeding generation, and undoubtedly much different than those who come of age when good times return (eventually).

It looks like we are going to be the observors and recorders (via email, letters, diaries, etc.) of an era most similar to the era of the Dust Bowl, bread lines, and Civilian Conservation Corps. In other words, we're participating in history being made.

I hope we can self-regulate and avoid injecting ANY politics into this discussion (we're all mature adults, after all, though we have a hard time controlling ourselves on occasion). But, if we can avoid what might be the inevitable, I am interested in hearing how you guys - my brethern of the forum - are enduring (or perhaps thriving?) these tough times. How goes it for you?

Sincerely,

Canoe "I wonder if we can keep politics out of this?" Rebel


So far day-to-day doing OK but, I am getting the crap kicked out of me with all my retirement funds being in the stock market. You know the old saying that you come in this world with nothing, well if this keeps up I will go out the same way. Hope there is some left to carry my wife through.

Buck

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 20
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:28:19 PM   
desicat

 

Posts: 542
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline 		Like ChickenBoy I live in the tundra of Minnesota, although I am almost certain I live much further north than he.  I am retired military and have solid current employment, but a few years ago I decided to hack a small farm out of the woodland to keep myself busy and supplement things.  We currently have sheep, goats, chickens, and guinea hens.  I consider the animals and the firewood for our wood stoves a different type of insurance policy.

(in reply to LST Express)
Post #: 21
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/8/2011 11:55:25 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
Like madflava, I am a US federal government employee. As in the Great Depression, Washington DC has not been as hard-hit as the rest of the country by our current Hard Times. My job seems secure enough, and, given what the rest of country -- whose taxes pay for the likes of me -- is going through, I have no reason to complain about our pay-freezes or benefit reductions. My wife runs an education foundation. It was hit hard in 2008-2009, but she's got it now back to where it was before the meltdown.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

A forum member, Panzerjager Hortlund IIRC, has a sig quote about the end of the era of self delusions and half measures and the beginning of an era of consequences. That sums it up well.

I look at my daughters and realize they will in all likelihood not have the same opportunities I did. I also have to confess, if I'm honest, that despite my own relative success I did not achieve as much as my father did. My job is secure for now, but I'm worried. My wife left her job to raise the kids, and we don't regret it, but are nervous about it for the first time.

I have a lot of thoughts on investments and the market as we are active traders, but that probably isn't what you're looking for.

God help us. I fear for the future. That sounds dramatic, but I truly believe we have entered the "bread and circus" phase of the Pax Americana.


Your fears are justified. But Americans have conquered far greater challenges before. I am still optimistic. In the words of that Great Half-American Winston Churchill: "America can be counted upon to do what is right, after she has exhausted all the other alternatives."


_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 22
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 12:15:21 AM   
Lifer

 

Posts: 384
Joined: 6/8/2003
From: Caprica
Status: offline 		I'm in the getting by category. Been out of work for a month now without even a nibble on the resumes and careerbuilder/monster submissions. Thank goodness for my years in the military. We may have to ask our kids for help with the electric bill this month. They are both under our roof so they helped consume the utilities but it is still upsetting to have to ask your kids for help.

Greg

_____________________________

Man does not enter battle to fight, but for victory. He does everything that he can to avoid the first and obtain the second.
Ardant du Picq

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 23
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 12:48:01 AM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		And how about you CR? How are things in north Georgia?

As an aside, I spent my 10th grade at Darlington, a boarding school up in Rome, Ga. My most vivid memory of that year is the beautiful girls at the local high school up there. If you happened to be lucky enough to have one of those girls as your bride, you are doing very well indeed!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 24
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 12:53:24 AM   
elxaime

 

Posts: 304
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Like some others above, I am a Federal civil servant (20 years and counting) so I am fortunate to have a pretty steady job. Nearly all the rest of the family is out in California and times are tough. I have been called on to loan money to relatives who have lost their jobs in the private sector.

(in reply to Lifer)
Post #: 25
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 1:10:39 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Dadgum (sorry Chickenboy!) interesting replies, gents.  I am glad to hear that some are doing well and hope that we can all pull ourselves up that way (as opposed to us pulling them down to ours).  At the same time, the heartfelt words from those of us who are struggling make me wish there were ways to do something that would be helfpul. 

I own a very small business in north Georgia, which was hit particularly hard by the housing crisis.  My business continues to grow, though slowly, for which I am thankful (the growing part, not the slow part).  My wife "retired" from teaching 18 years ago when we started having children.  We've homeschooled since then, which has made things very tight financially.  Then my daughter got a chronic medical problem that is perfectly treatible (thank goodness) by a very expensive medication.  As a result of these expenses, we've exhausted our savings and live on a very tight budget.  Our children are at or rapidly approaching college age now and we have no idea how we're going to pay for it.  But we'll do something, and in two or three more years, my wife can return to the work world, having devoted 21 years of her life to the welfare of the chilluns (that's how we southerners say it).

Bottom line:  we're always felt very blessed, but things are nevertheless challenging.

(in reply to elxaime)
Post #: 26
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 1:10:41 AM   
DOCUP


Posts: 3073
Joined: 7/7/2010
Status: offline 		I'm in West Virginia, also.  I'm a nurse so its not to bad for me.  Always going to be sick or injuries people around.  I do feel lucky though.  But I do worry about the future.  I have no clue how or what to do for my retirement.

doc

(in reply to elxaime)
Post #: 27
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 1:14:49 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225
As an aside, I spent my 10th grade at Darlington, a boarding school up in Rome, Ga. My most vivid memory of that year is the beautiful girls at the local high school up there. If you happened to be lucky enough to have one of those girls as your bride, you are doing very well indeed!


Darlington is in Rome, just four miles down the road. My wife is from another Georgia town, but if I were to post a poicture of her from the day we got married, there would be epidemic jealousy (especially from the Yankees who do not have access to southern belles). My wfie is what you might term "a looker."

(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 28
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 1:15:27 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		I work for a business in the Defense Industry, times are booming.

Plus living in a smallish country town means I enjoy my 5-10 minute drive to work and can sit out and talk to the birds on the weekend. (No one else listens!).

Hopefully the current crisis will show those in power we need each other, USA, Europe, China, Japan etc. All of our economies are interlinked, no country is safe.

And to break the request about politics, ALL politicians of all shapes and sizes must consider the effects of their actions before they play party political games.

As to participating in History, I hope not, too many stories from my Father about the Great Depression to consider this a worthwhile achievement.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to elxaime)
Post #: 29
RE: Participating in History (OT) - 8/9/2011 2:12:01 AM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

Darlington is in Rome, just four miles down the road. My wife is from another Georgia town, but if I were to post a poicture of her from the day we got married, there would be epidemic jealousy (especially from the Yankees who do not have access to southern belles). My wfie is what you might term "a looker."


Then best not sow the seeds of discontent. I've found it best to leave Yankees to their own devices. Me thinks you are a rich man indeed.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 30
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