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Need Help - 8/9/2011 4:29:57 AM

usersatch

Posts: 400
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline

I've been playing WiTP/AE for several years and thinking about a change. While AE has its issues, it's still a lot of fun to play, especially for us OCD types.

I'm a Wehrmact/Waffen SS fan, so this game looks like a logical next step.

But, I'm reading some (well, a lot) of the posts here and it looks a little disheartening. It sounds like the Germans don't stand a chance in this game after less than a year of game play. The production/reinforcement schedule is stacked against Japan in AE, but at least it's still a game until some time in 1944. WiTE doesn't even sound like a "game" for the Germans.

Somebody please convice me it's a good game!!!

Post #: 1

RE: Need Help - 8/9/2011 4:45:36 AM

PeeDeeAitch

Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline

Well, I have been playing this from the day of release. I am still overwhelmed. The feeling that the Germans don't stand a chance is a bit of hyperbole - from the initial iterations there were cries that the entire game was broken. What is being worked on now will make it better, that is for sure, but by no means is it a "put this on the shelf" game for me at all.

I personally have won a game against a player that (as the Soviets) got his German counterpart to tip his king - I have also been stymied in 1941 and been about ready to lose hope. This game allows a wide variation of experiences, play, and above all learning. I figure I will learn nuances to this game for years.

It is fun as the Germans? Hell yes. Ask Pawlock if a "trench 1942" cannot still be a tough one, ask Tarhunnas if 1942 has to be static and awful. It is a game of inevitables - the Soviets will begin to crush the Germans slowly and grind them into dust. However, it is not simply an exercise in beating onesself with a hammer. Instead, there is a wide variation, and doing things that your opponent thinks you would not do, even later in the game, has rewards.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 2

RE: Need Help - 8/9/2011 6:49:42 AM

Harovan

Posts: 78
Joined: 1/25/2011
From: Germany
Status: offline

The victory conditions throw the Germans a bone in the end. If you don't lose the land you started with by the end date of the scenario, you win. Despite the fact that it's really funny to imagine Stalin saying, oh, so we failed to win by autumn 1945, so lets stop the steamroller and let the Germans have their victory.

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)

Post #: 3

RE: Need Help - 8/9/2011 7:55:10 AM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harovan

The victory conditions throw the Germans a bone in the end. If you don't lose the land you started with by the end date of the scenario, you win. Despite the fact that it's really funny to imagine Stalin saying, oh, so we failed to win by autumn 1945, so lets stop the steamroller and let the Germans have their victory.

Well yes, but there has to be a difference between winning the war and winning the game, or there would be little point in playing as German. And the Sovs do need to have some pressure to move West quickly or the game could get really really slow...

(in reply to Harovan)

Post #: 4

RE: Need Help - 8/9/2011 8:21:34 AM

randallw

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: usersatch

I've been playing WiTP/AE for several years and thinking about a change. While AE has its issues, it's still a lot of fun to play, especially for us OCD types.

I'm a Wehrmact/Waffen SS fan, so this game looks like a logical next step.

But, I'm reading some (well, a lot) of the posts here and it looks a little disheartening. It sounds like the Germans don't stand a chance in this game after less than a year of game play. The production/reinforcement schedule is stacked against Japan in AE, but at least it's still a game until some time in 1944. WiTE doesn't even sound like a "game" for the Germans.

Somebody please convice me it's a good game!!!

What's happening is that Axis players are not able to launch successful attacks as often as they'd like in 1942, so they feel they are doomed to lose the war sooner than historical, and the game ends far before mid 1944.

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 5

RE: Need Help - 8/9/2011 2:29:31 PM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

I think it's enjoyable anyway at the moment, though needs some tweaking to help the Germans out.

Remember, WITP-AE took several years to get right. 1-year in, there were still loads of issues, like (IIRC), CV stacks with CAP so thick that nothing would penetrate, PT boat flotillas routinely killing large surface ships, and 1-square mile islands that could hold 500,000 troops.

Hang in there, this is on a faster trajectory to being great

_____________________________

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Post #: 6

RE: Need Help - 8/9/2011 3:48:23 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: usersatch

I've been playing WiTP/AE for several years and thinking about a change. While AE has its issues, it's still a lot of fun to play, especially for us OCD types.

I'm a Wehrmact/Waffen SS fan, so this game looks like a logical next step.

But, I'm reading some (well, a lot) of the posts here and it looks a little disheartening. It sounds like the Germans don't stand a chance in this game after less than a year of game play. The production/reinforcement schedule is stacked against Japan in AE, but at least it's still a game until some time in 1944. WiTE doesn't even sound like a "game" for the Germans.

Somebody please convice me it's a good game!!!

Here is my 2 cents, based only on were I am in my first game - Axis 41-45 campaign, it is now i Feb 42. But also based on I am a old salt wargamer, I have played the original SPI War in the East mapboard game, SPIs War in Europe, and hundreds of other wargames, both cardboard and computer types.

I have had a good Barbarossa, surrouding Leningrad, taking Smolensk and Kiev. I reached within 50 miles of Moscow on a wide front. Stopped short of Stalino by about the same distance, I might have been able to take it in snow turns, but did not want to be overextended when Blizzard hit. I have now survived three quarters of the first winter blizzard losing no ground at all. I have lost a hex here and there, but those are just minor adjustments. I have refitted several Panzer divisions, and will begin supply buildup of Panzerkorps in the spring mud. I am sure I will have some success in summer 42.

Now comparisons of this game to both history and the SPI War in the East, I would say that it stacks up about right. Sorry for you out there that want the Devs to strengthen the Axis or weaken the Soviets. The only thing I can see them adding is an option that makes the AI perform more "historical" (translated to more like Stalin, which is "stupid").

In the end, the biggest difference in the game versus what historically happened, in my opinion, is that Hitler "played great" while "Stalin played like $#!+" in 1941 to mid 1942. Then, Stalin LSP.

Edit - oh, and I rate the game 5 stars, must have for any WWII East Front fan.

< Message edited by Gargoil -- 8/9/2011 3:52:25 PM >

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 7

RE: Need Help - 8/24/2011 6:01:24 AM

usersatch

Posts: 400
Joined: 6/1/2005
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Thanks, guys! I'm convinced and will be purchasing shortly. I just know I can be the one who beats the russians

(in reply to Gargoil)

Post #: 8

RE: Need Help - 8/24/2011 2:54:18 PM

Captain

Posts: 78
Joined: 5/1/2006
Status: offline

I had been sitting on the fence on WITE as well since I had read many negative comments and was worried it would require as much micromanagement as WITPAE, but I bought it a few weeks back and have not regretted it one bit.

This is the best/most addictive operational/strategy game on the OstFront I have ever played. You can actually match and sometimes even beat the speed of the advance of the Wehrmacht in 1941.

You have the same problems the Panzer generals had out in the steppe.....no not the pesky Russians, but SUPPLY!: "where is that damn FUEL! and how come those infantry divisions are so slow in catching up?!? "

You can play at the army/corps level and let your AI chief of staff handle all the details OR dig down yourself and micromanage to your heart's content. This game is DEEP.

This is a must buy for any Eastern Front fan, you will not be disappointed.

_____________________________

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Post #: 9

RE: Need Help - 8/24/2011 3:45:01 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain
This game is DEEP.

Playing Axis 41 CG with normal AI - my game is in March 1943. I have been going at it hard, but last night I decided to just peer into some detail, just for the hell of it. Das Reich Panzergrenadier Divison had just arrived, so I am looking at their OB. Okay, I see they have like 18 Panzer Pioneer Squads. I open that up. I see what one squad consists of. I look at there devices. They have 8 satchal charges. Geez, this game spans the entire War in the East, and I can find details that would be appropiate in Avalon Hill's Squad Leader!

(in reply to Captain)

Post #: 10

RE: Need Help - 8/24/2011 3:45:56 PM

Gargoil

Posts: 389
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gargoil

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain
This game is DEEP.

Playing Axis 41 CG with normal AI - my game is in March 1943. I have been going at it hard, but last night I decided to just peer into some detail, just for the hell of it. Das Reich Panzergrenadier Divison had just arrived, so I am looking at their OB. Okay, I see they have like 18 Panzer Pioneer Squads. I open that up. I see what one squad consists of - I look at their devices. They have 8 satchal charges. Geez, this game spans the entire War in the East, and I can find details that would be appropiate in Avalon Hill's Squad Leader!

(in reply to Gargoil)

Post #: 11

RE: Need Help - 8/24/2011 3:50:25 PM

pompack

Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: usersatch

I've been playing WiTP/AE for several years and thinking about a change. While AE has its issues, it's still a lot of fun to play, especially for us OCD types.

I'm a Wehrmact/Waffen SS fan, so this game looks like a logical next step.

But, I'm reading some (well, a lot) of the posts here and it looks a little disheartening. It sounds like the Germans don't stand a chance in this game after less than a year of game play. The production/reinforcement schedule is stacked against Japan in AE, but at least it's still a game until some time in 1944. WiTE doesn't even sound like a "game" for the Germans.

Somebody please convice me it's a good game!!!

Well, for an AE player it is very simple to respond to this. Playing as the Germans in WitP is just like playing as the Japanese in AE: against the AI you might win an AV early if you are good, but against another player with a little experience you are not going to defeat them (unless you are playing against me and there are AAR's in WitP to prove it). And yet the last time I looked it was easier to find a Japanese opponent in AE than to find an Allied opponent.

There are a lot of people on these forums complaining that the game is unbalanced against the Germans, but very few of them seem to be AE players. Just as in the real war, the Germans or the Japanese are not going to defeat their opponents unless they do it early via "Shock and Awe".

(in reply to usersatch)

Post #: 12

RE: Need Help - 8/25/2011 6:04:48 AM

usersatch

Posts: 400
Joined: 6/1/2005
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I think what attracts me to AE is the micromanagement of forces...my Zen cure of my OCD. Where else can you manage the role of literally a hundred naval air squadrons in 1945??? If WitE satisfies my obession, so be it!

I must admit that I'm a Germaphile (is that a word?), so I get utterly depressed when reading history past Aug 43.

I am in deep need of a revision of history! LOL

_____________________________

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Post #: 13

RE: Need Help - 8/25/2011 8:56:47 AM

CarnageINC

Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline

Don't feel alone in being a 'Germaphile'. Even though I detest the political aspect of the German government I highly respect the soldiers of the Wehrmacht in fighting against impossible odds and do a rather creditable job of it. The game is definitely worth the money and like everyone has stated its still a work in progress. It has a great crew working to improve it so you can expect it to get better and better.

Your first mission objective after buying it is to pack up and head east to destroy the commie infestation! To Glory We Ride!

_____________________________

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Post #: 14