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Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/11/2011 1:43:10 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Jim Wirth put this list together. Please let use know if you find anything that isn't correct.

Soviet Unit Creation List

Formation Date Note
Combined Arms Army HQ Jun-41
Rifle Division Jun-41
Cavalry Division Jun-41
AT Artillery Brigade Jun-41
PVO AA Brigade Jun-41
Motorcycle Regiment Jun-41
BM Howitzer Regiment Jun-41
Corps Artillery Regiment Jun-41
Howitzer Regiment Jun-41
Gun Regiment Jun-41
Heavy Gun Regiment Jun-41
PVO AA Regiment Jun-41
PVO AA Battalion Jun-41
AA Battalion Jun-41
Sapper Battalion Jun-41
Sapper Regiment Jun-41
Construction Battalion Jun-41
RR Construction Brigade Jun-41
Mortar Battalion Jun-41
Heavy Mortar Battalion Jun-41
Fortified Region Jun-41
MG-Artillery Battalion Jun-41
AT Artillery Regiment Jul-41
Light Rocket Regiment Aug-41
Separate Tank Battalion Aug-41
Tank Brigade Sep-41
Rifle Brigade Sep-41
Army Artillery Regiment Sep-41
Artillery Regiment RVGK Sep-41
Light Rocket Battalion Sep-41
Ski Battalion Nov-41
Cavalry Corps Dec-41 *
Light Gun Brigade Jan-42
Light Howitzer Brigade Jan-42
Light Gun Regiment Jan-42
Mortar Regiment Jan-42
Tank Corps Apr-42 *
Motorized Brigade Apr-42
AT-Rifle Battalion Apr-42
Gun Brigade May-42
Flamethrower Company May-42
Rifle Corps Jun-42 *
Mountain Corps Jun-42 *
Guards Airborne Division Jun-42 *
Heavy AT Regiment Jun-42
AA Regiment Jun-42
Heavy Rocket Battalion Jun-42
Tank Army HQ Jul-42
Flame Tank Battalion Jul-42
TD Artillery Battalion Aug-42
Mechanized Corps Sep-42 *
Mechanized Brigade Sep-42
Ski Brigade Sep-42
Separate Tank Regiment Sep-42
Artillery Division Oct-42
Heavy Tank Regiment Oct-42
Heavy Rocket Brigade Nov-42
Mountain Mortar Regiment Nov-42
Rocket Launcher Division Dec-42
Breakthrough Artillery Division Mar-43
Light SU Regiment Mar-43
Medium SU Regiment Mar-43
Heavy SU Regiment Mar-43
Mortar Brigade Apr-43
Assault Engineer Sapper Brigade May-43
Army Gun Artillery Regiment May-43
Heavy Gun Artillery Division Jun-43
Corps Artillery Battalion Jun-43
Flamethrower Battalion Jun-43
Gun Artillery Division Sep-43
Light SU Brigade Feb-44
Flame Tank Regiment May-44
Medium SU Brigade Jan-45
Heavy Tank Brigade Feb-45
Heavy SU Brigade Mar-45

Note:
*formed out of components, cannot be built directly


Attachment (1)

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
Post #: 1
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/11/2011 3:49:53 AM   
Kiith

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Many thanks for the list Joel and Jim for putting it all together it's exactly what I've been trying to figure out myself lately.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 2
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/11/2011 3:59:34 AM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Excellent list!

The only thing I see "missing" is when rifle brigades can be formed into divisions. (Perhaps rifle divisions with a * since rifle divisions can be formed from the start of the game).

Be great to see something like this integrated into the commanders report as well for the appropriate items as they become available or perhaps a note in the re-enforcement schedule (or heck, why not both? )

(in reply to Kiith)
Post #: 3
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/11/2011 6:42:14 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		May of 42 for the rifle brigades flipping to divisions.

Joel, I'm pretty sure players can't make mountain corps at any point in the game. (Which is somewhat odd because some of the later scenarios do begin with on map mountain corps. But you can't actually make them yourself.)



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Post #: 4
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/11/2011 1:49:09 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		I made similar list after reading the manual:

Guards Airborne Division Jun-42 *   --> this may be Jan -43 ?
Guards Rifle Division: March - 42

Of course updates may have changed this.

Marquo

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 5
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/11/2011 2:07:28 PM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		TD Battery is missing, they come available as soon as ZiS-30 factories come online (Sep 41?).

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Post #: 6
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/11/2011 4:41:12 PM   
Vorsteher


Posts: 251
Joined: 4/1/2000
Status: offline 		@Joel
When we see a new beta update ?

V.


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Post #: 7
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/12/2011 5:15:39 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Mountain Corps? We can form Mountain Corps?  I don't remember reading this earlier.

(in reply to Vorsteher)
Post #: 8
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/12/2011 6:43:31 AM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Mountain Corps? We can form Mountain Corps?  I don't remember reading this earlier.


If you combine mountain divisions you can but you cannot create more mountain divisions if you lose some of original ones.

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 9
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/12/2011 7:27:20 AM   
Kiith

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Jakerson could you let us know how you managed to do it as I can't get make Mountain Corps in my current game (June 42) when trying with a stack of 3 Mountain Div's. Thou come to think of it one was Guards Mountain Div but I wouldn't expect that to be the problem.

< Message edited by Kiith -- 8/12/2011 7:28:22 AM >

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 10
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/12/2011 8:17:53 PM   
jaw

 

Posts: 1045
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline 		Joel has asked me to update the creation list so I need definitive answers on the following items:

Guards Airborne Division - I went by when this unit becomes available in the OB file (wrob.dat) but I've never tried to create one myself so is the date 6/43 or 1/43?

Guards Rifle Division - I was under the impression you couldn't directly build any Guards unit. Can you build them directly starting 3/43?

TD Battery - I was under the impression these batteries would come as reinforcements and not be a buildable formation. If they are buildable can you still build them after their TOE's end date in April, 1942?

Mountain Corps - It was supposed to be formable from mountain divisions. Is this true or not?

If some one can get me answers to these questions I will update the list accordingly.

Thanks,

Jim Wirth

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 11
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/12/2011 9:13:20 PM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jaw

Joel has asked me to update the creation list so I need definitive answers on the following items:

Guards Airborne Division - I went by when this unit becomes available in the OB file (wrob.dat) but I've never tried to create one myself so is the date 6/43 or 1/43?

Guards Rifle Division - I was under the impression you couldn't directly build any Guards unit. Can you build them directly starting 3/43?

TD Battery - I was under the impression these batteries would come as reinforcements and not be a buildable formation. If they are buildable can you still build them after their TOE's end date in April, 1942?

Mountain Corps - It was supposed to be formable from mountain divisions. Is this true or not?

If some one can get me answers to these questions I will update the list accordingly.

Thanks,

Jim Wirth


As far as I know if you combine three air brigades they automatically form up guard rifle divisions if done after March 1942. If you wait until January 1943 and combine three air brigades they form up guard airborne division.

Also if you combine three guard rifle divisions you automatically get guard rifle corps. If you combine two rifle brigades with guard status you get guard rifle division.

Saving airborne brigades is worth as you can get nice units from them later so it is not good to waste them in some delay operation at 1941. If they get shattered or isolated and surrendered there is no way to get them back and you cannot make new airborne units if original ones are killed.

Other than this you need to let your unit get experience and some of them auto convert to guard status.

< Message edited by Jakerson -- 8/12/2011 9:15:17 PM >

(in reply to jaw)
Post #: 12
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/12/2011 9:21:39 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Besides the airborne guards conversion, Soviet Rocket and Heavy Tank Regiments receive automatic guards status on creation.

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WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 13
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/12/2011 11:59:58 PM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Besides the airborne guards conversion, Soviet Rocket and Heavy Tank Regiments receive automatic guards status on creation.


Do they get higher exp too than normal units when created? Or is this just some Soviet naming scheme that Rocket artillery and heavy tank regiment is always named Guard but troops inside them start with low exp?



< Message edited by Jakerson -- 8/13/2011 12:00:32 AM >

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 14
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/13/2011 3:05:23 AM   
JamesM

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: QLD, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Mountain Corps? We can form Mountain Corps?  I don't remember reading this earlier.


If you combine mountain divisions you can but you cannot create more mountain divisions if you lose some of original ones.


I have just tried to join 3 mountain division in my current game (November 43) and they will not merge.

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 15
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/13/2011 10:44:54 AM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm
I have just tried to join 3 mountain division in my current game (November 43) and they will not merge.


I thougt it was added in patch that mountain divisions can be merged to form mountain corps as there is mountain corps in some end year campaings and if you start 41 you have no way doing them.

(in reply to JamesM)
Post #: 16
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/13/2011 11:13:34 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Do they get higher exp too than normal units when created?


They don't get higher exp or morale on creation, but over time they should get morale bonuses and exp should follow.

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 17
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/13/2011 2:50:53 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		>Guards Airborne Division - I went by when this unit becomes available in the OB file (wrob.dat) but I've never tried to create one myself so is >the date 6/43 or 1/43?

>Guards Rifle Division - I was under the impression you couldn't directly build any Guards unit. Can you build them directly starting 3/43?

I do not know: this is from notes I took directly from the Manual.

Marquo

(in reply to jaw)
Post #: 18
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/18/2011 6:39:59 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I've attached a revised list that Jim put together based on comments here and some research he did.

Soviet Unit Creation List

Formation Date Notes
Combined Arms Army HQ Jun-41
Rifle Division Jun-41 1
Cavalry Division Jun-41
AT Artillery Brigade Jun-41
PVO AA Brigade Jun-41
Motorcycle Regiment Jun-41
BM Howitzer Regiment Jun-41
Corps Artillery Regiment Jun-41
Howitzer Regiment Jun-41
Gun Regiment Jun-41
Heavy Gun Regiment Jun-41
PVO AA Regiment Jun-41
PVO AA Battalion Jun-41
AA Battalion Jun-41
Sapper Battalion Jun-41
Sapper Regiment Jun-41
Construction Battalion Jun-41
RR Construction Brigade Jun-41
Mortar Battalion Jun-41
Heavy Mortar Battalion Jun-41
Fortified Region Jun-41
MG-Artillery Battalion Jun-41
AT Artillery Regiment Jul-41
Light Rocket Regiment Aug-41 2
Separate Tank Battalion Aug-41
Tank Brigade Sep-41
Rifle Brigade Sep-41
Army Artillery Regiment Sep-41
Artillery Regiment RVGK Sep-41
Light Rocket Battalion Sep-41
TD Battery Sep-41 3
Ski Battalion Nov-41
Cavalry Corps Dec-41 4
Light Gun Brigade Jan-42
Light Howitzer Brigade Jan-42
Light Gun Regiment Jan-42
Mortar Regiment Jan-42
Tank Corps Apr-42 5
Guards Rifle Division Apr-42 6
Motorized Brigade Apr-42
AT-Rifle Battalion Apr-42
Gun Brigade May-42
Flamethrower Company May-42
Rifle Corps Jun-42 7
Heavy AT Regiment Jun-42
AA Regiment Jun-42
Heavy Rocket Battalion Jun-42
Tank Army HQ Jul-42
Flame Tank Battalion Jul-42
TD Artillery Battalion Aug-42
Mechanized Corps Sep-42 8
Mechanized Brigade Sep-42
Ski Brigade Sep-42
Separate Tank Regiment Sep-42
Artillery Division Oct-42
Heavy Tank Regiment Oct-42 2
Heavy Rocket Brigade Nov-42
Mountain Mortar Regiment Nov-42
Rocket Launcher Division Dec-42
Guards Airborne Division Jan-43 9
Breakthrough Artillery Division Mar-43
Light SU Regiment Mar-43
Medium SU Regiment Mar-43
Heavy SU Regiment Mar-43
Mortar Brigade Apr-43
Assault Engineer Sapper Brigade May-43
Army Gun Artillery Regiment May-43
Heavy Gun Artillery Division Jun-43
Corps Artillery Battalion Jun-43
Flamethrower Battalion Jun-43
Gun Artillery Division Sep-43
Light SU Brigade Feb-44
Flame Tank Regiment May-44
Medium SU Brigade Jan-45
Heavy Tank Brigade Feb-45
Heavy SU Brigade Mar-45

Notes:
1) can also be formed from two rifle brigades from May, 1942
2) receive automatic Guards status on creation
3) can't be created after April, 1942
4) formed from the combination of three cavalry divisions
5) formed from the combination of three tank brigades
6) In addition to being "awarded" any time after August, 1941 it may be formed from three airborne brigades between April, 1942 and December, 1942
7) formed from the combination of three rifle divisions or two rifle divisions and a rifle brigade
8) formed from the combination of three mechanized or motorized brigades
9) formed from the combination of three airborne brigades


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 8/18/2011 6:40:46 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 19
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 8/18/2011 11:42:28 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Also if you combine three guard rifle divisions you automatically get guard rifle corps. If you combine two rifle brigades with guard status you get guard rifle division.


You can combine two guards divisions with a regular brigade or division and get a guards rifle corps.  This means with 12 guards IDs you can make 6 guards corps instead of 4.  I can see no reason to ever use 3 guards divisions to make a rifle corps.
Not sure how much manpower difference difference their is in the TOE (combining 2 ID + 1 Bde instead of 3 ID), but I wanted to keep as many divisions on the map as I could.

Do the guards unit limits go stictly off map counters, or is there some kind of manpower consideration?  It seems like combining 2 guards ID + 1 Bde gives me room to promote another unit to guards status.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 20
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/6/2012 4:21:37 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline 		It's Feb '42 and I've created 9 Light Howitzer Brigades to soak up some of my spare 2000+ 122mm tubes.
My plan is to use at least these (540 tubes) to start bleeding the Finns, and I'm considering building another 9 brigades of same for use north of Ladoga as well. My question is, can these be combined into Artillery Divisions in Oct '42, or is the 'proper' course to disband them then construct the divisions pulling these same tubes from the pool?

< Message edited by Seminole -- 2/6/2012 4:24:37 PM >

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 21
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/6/2012 4:58:31 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Artillery divisions must be built from scratch, you can't combine arty brigades into them.

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Post #: 22
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/6/2012 5:27:28 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Why can't Germany have a list like this? Would love to be able to actually build some support units.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 23
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/7/2012 8:14:15 PM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 12/5/2010
From: Birkerod, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

Also if you combine three guard rifle divisions you automatically get guard rifle corps. If you combine two rifle brigades with guard status you get guard rifle division.


You can combine two guards divisions with a regular brigade or division and get a guards rifle corps.  This means with 12 guards IDs you can make 6 guards corps instead of 4.  I can see no reason to ever use 3 guards divisions to make a rifle corps.
Not sure how much manpower difference difference their is in the TOE (combining 2 ID + 1 Bde instead of 3 ID), but I wanted to keep as many divisions on the map as I could.

Do the guards unit limits go stictly off map counters, or is there some kind of manpower consideration?  It seems like combining 2 guards ID + 1 Bde gives me room to promote another unit to guards status.



That's what I do too....Why use 3 Guards units when 2 can do the trick?
Presumably a 2 div/1 brig combo will require more replacements to reach full Corps TOE, but the way I see it is that the Corps will need to spend some time behind the lines retraining (experience plummets when combining) so they can restock on bodies while training.
To me, the biggest hurdle as the Soviet is the AP limit, never near enough for what needs doing especially during The Great Reorganization in ´42-´43.
So if I can use a brigade-unit that I can't use for anything else anyway, instead of using a division-counter which I'll have to spend APs to recreate, that's a no-brainer.

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(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 24
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/26/2012 10:24:11 AM   
Vorsteher


Posts: 251
Joined: 4/1/2000
Status: offline 		Is there a new support unit ? A engineer sapper brigade 41?

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Post #: 25
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/26/2012 12:16:09 PM   
Omat


Posts: 2414
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vorsteher

Is there a new support unit ? A engineer sapper brigade 41?



Hello

Yes

Made the following changes in the TOE(OB) data base relating to Soviet Sappers:


• TOE(OB) 43 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (446) revised to eliminate 12 Sapper Squads with flamethrowers and replace with 10 Rifle Squads, increased Support and brigade upgrades to 44 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (486) in 5/44;
• Added TOE(OB) 44 Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade (486) with addition of 24 Flamethrower Squads (240 FLAMETHROWERS!) and 9 anti-tank rifles;
• Added TOE(OB) 41 Engineer-Sapper Brigade (499) as Construction type support unit which upgrades (actually gets smaller) to 43 Engineer-Sapper Brigade (500) in 6/43.

Hope it helps...

Omat

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(in reply to Vorsteher)
Post #: 26
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/26/2012 12:28:40 PM   
Vorsteher


Posts: 251
Joined: 4/1/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Engineer-Sapper Brigade

Ah , jetzt sehe ich es Beta : V1.05.53 – January 4, 2012.

Thanks

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Post #: 27
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/26/2012 7:42:06 PM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Are you saying a flamethrower squad has 10 flamethrowers? I think it's just one flamethrower per squad.

(in reply to Vorsteher)
Post #: 28
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 2/27/2012 12:55:39 PM   
jaw

 

Posts: 1045
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Are you saying a flamethrower squad has 10 flamethrowers? I think it's just one flamethrower per squad.


You are confusing the flamethrower squad with the pre-war sapper squad. The Flamethrower squad is exactly what it says a squad composed entirely of men equipped with flamethrowers.

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 29
RE: Soviet Unit Creation List - 7/29/2012 7:49:38 AM   
Mogmark

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/29/2012
Status: offline
Did the Guards Rifle Division Apr-42 6 change to Mar-42?

In my game against the AI it allowed me to create them the first turn of March 42 using the Airborne Brigades.

(in reply to jaw)
Post #: 30
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