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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario

 
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RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/11/2011 9:09:20 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks - heh, but dang... well, I screwed up - tried it several times and after a pot of coffee, decided to calibrate my clicker to about 240 clicks per minute... and 6 hours later, all done... with that.

Was starting to freak - last night with the flags on my system started going real slow. Solved it by turning on borders - but... had visions of impending disaster.

There are portions of eastern Russia which could use a bit more attention, but am considering the map portion essentially complete - excepting review of rivers...which I hate & suck at, and adding more airfields. Also set up 1st track/1st location objectives for both sides to get that out of the way - until work starts on PO versions. Will have to do a different version for each side.

Define Reconstitute hexes
Define VP Locations
Refine English TO&E
Define Allied Replacement Rates
More Customization of S&R
Define Victory Conditions

Define Events
Test Events

Several of these should go pretty fast in relative terms, just not the last two.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 31
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/17/2011 6:23:29 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Progress continues. Events and thorough tests are the only major items remaining. I'm very pleased by the ability to right click and select events vs. clicking through them. Seems that's a new feature and if so, very welcome! Thanks Ralph!

Going through the Allied replacements turned up quite a few equipment issues to refine. Too much of some things, not enough of other things. That's likely to be ongoing. If I were to start from scratch, I'd concentrate more on "personalizing" each nationality's equipment. Think there's at least one BioEd file that's done exactly that.

Overall, this is going much faster than I anticipated though time available for it is decreasing due to work. This coming week will have a lot of say on how much time I'll be able to throw at it and in defining the potential for bringing in additional resources. Will be a matter of having lots of one thing and not enough of another. Will post more when I know more.

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Post #: 32
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/22/2011 4:17:29 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

I'm very pleased by the ability to right click and select events vs. clicking through them. Seems that's a new feature and if so, very welcome! Thanks Ralph!


?? Anybody know what he's talking about?

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Post #: 33
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/22/2011 5:11:40 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Eh... I remember having to click through all of the different event options before. If the option desired was skipped over, having to cycle through them all over. Could just be that I didn't right click to get the menu before.

This is more like a job than my real job. Almost complete with the PBEM version, eats up about 600 events. It does not look like the PO versions will be able to fit into the same file.

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Post #: 34
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/22/2011 8:25:15 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		As far as I know, this menu has always been available by right clicking field 2. It would be nice if this were also possible for field 7, the formation orders field (circled red).




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 35
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/22/2011 9:50:47 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Ah, okay - was just me then. Heh. Agree it would be great to get a similar menu for the formation orders.


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Post #: 36
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/22/2011 10:43:42 PM   
Panama


Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline 		Not having to scroll through the entire oob would be nice. As well as key mapping.

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Post #: 37
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/23/2011 1:16:04 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

Eh... I remember having to click through all of the different event options before. If the option desired was skipped over, having to cycle through them all over. Could just be that I didn't right click to get the menu before.


Ah. Just a little confusion over terminology. You meant you could right-click and choose the event effect. The way you worded it, I thought you had discovered some secret method to enter an event number and go straight to that event. You never know when Ralph will add something and forget to tell anyone.

I'm pretty sure the event effect list has always been there, but it wasn't until TOAW III that it was put on a page instead of a scroll list.

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Post #: 38
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/23/2011 11:44:12 AM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Not sure if this is of any help re: OOB - but one convention is to set up "Bookmark units" at the very beginning of the Order of Battle and place them throughout the various major areas of operation. For this scenario, I set up 10 - Northern Finland, AGN, AGC, AGS, Balkans, Rome, Sicily, North Africa, Paris, & Berlin. Useful as a checklist during play, too.

Make them free to move so you can easily remember from turn to turn areas requiring extra attention.

This won't get you exactly to where you want to be in the OOB in many cases, but usually really close.

Marathon session now... and then active testing.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 39
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/23/2011 2:17:53 PM   
Panama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

Not having to scroll through the entire oob would be nice. As well as key mapping.


I'm talking about the Force Editor here.

Of course in game would be nice too.

Key mapping for everything, editor and in game.

< Message edited by Panama -- 7/23/2011 2:18:59 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/24/2011 8:33:20 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Five years later... it's done and playable, moving it into play testing.

At some point, the English/American Air OOB and the allocation of English armor/recon vehicles could use some refining. Rivers... I hate rivers... can probably use refining, too.

Otherwise, there's some cosmetic issues I'd like to fix - not sure I'll be able to figure it out, as I'm cosmetically challenged to begin with - purple text and neon green icons! Actually, just trying to come up with a 'multi-national flag icon' for the Allies (other than UN). Would like to be able to increase the font size of some map locations.

Initial testing last week indicated that the first 240 events work as intended, combat results seemed typical, S&R issues worked as intended, so the PBEM version is almost a done deal.

Used just under 500 events, so there's room for a) more detail in the PBEM version, b) a PBEM only non-historical variant, or c) can try to add the Allied PO into it. Either way, the Axis PO will have to go into a separate file. That will be the last version to complete... and the hardest.

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Post #: 41
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/28/2011 9:21:24 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Quick question - is there any way to set more than one reconstitution hex per force/side?

Right now - I don't have one defined as per the original rulebook, I seen there's only one possible; or leave it open and destroyed units will reconstitute in a friendly, supplied, urban hex - anywhere. I about died laughing three or four times in playtests so far. I have an interim semi-acceptable remedy if we are limited to 1 reconstitution hex. Would be very nice to have at least one per unit color.

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Post #: 42
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/28/2011 10:46:53 PM   
LLv34_Snefens


Posts: 254
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline 		You can have them reconstitute in their "OBJ 1" hex.

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Post #: 43
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 7/28/2011 11:08:10 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Ah, okay - thanks - I'll follow that to see where I can get with it, that would solve things nicely!

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Post #: 44
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/1/2011 10:37:02 PM   
leridano

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 12/9/2008
Status: offline 		Looking forward for this scenario. Would love Axis PO!

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Post #: 45
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/1/2011 10:56:19 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks - unfortunately the Axis PO is going to be done last as it is the most complex. Not entirely sure it will make it to a PO version, but proceeding as if it will. PBEM version will be available "in the near future".

It's basically done now, but I'm looking to use the BioEd to personalize equipment by country - primarily for the Axis minor allies. Significant, but not lengthy rework involved. Won't try to do it for the whole Axis or whole Allied side as that would just be masochistic. Looking at a few other things, and preparing some "player supplements" to help with turn to turn management and such.

(in reply to leridano)
Post #: 46
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/7/2011 8:05:44 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		The latest file versions have been sent to those who initially expressed an interest. I've set up www.wargamecollege.net for scenario (and other game) support. It will be available for download there shortly.

Currently it has one minor aesthetic issue to resolve and completion of player supplements. BioEd was used to set up all the Axis minor allies with their own proprietary equipment (Bulgaria, Croatia, Finland, Hungary, Italy, Romania, Vichy France). That consumed this last week, also ran into a problem with AA units using the AT value with BioEd that I wasn't able to fix, so AA equipment will draw from the same replacement pool.

More testing of events to follow, room to add more events for the PBEM version, as well. Otherwise, will continue to refine the PBEM version. I hear there's another beta version of TOAW to be coming out, so all work on the PO will wait until it comes out.

(in reply to USXpat)
Post #: 47
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/7/2011 8:57:18 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline
quote:


www.wargamecollege.net


Excellent, i've linked you on my blog (as you did on yours).

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Post #: 48
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/7/2011 9:18:32 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks Telumar!

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Post #: 49
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/7/2011 9:40:14 PM   
1_Lzard


Posts: 528
Joined: 8/18/2010
From: McMinnville, OR
Status: offline 		The part of this that I've just recognised is that our boy USXpat is Hienz57 from the old days! Surprise!

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Post #: 50
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/7/2011 9:42:52 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline 		Yeah, he's done his best to hide this from us.. lol   But the blog reveals it..

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Post #: 51
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/7/2011 10:32:00 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Intermittent periods of amnesia coupled with senility and multiple personality disorder - but I still remember how to play the Operational Art of War. If only I could find the dancing bananas...

http://www.wargamecollege.net/Third Reich 42-45.zip (501kb) - downloadable now. Fixes the e-mail version just mailed, had dinner and forgot some units weren't deployed before sending it out. Will use the download page on the blog to keep track of errata and stuff.




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Post #: 52
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/7/2011 11:08:28 PM   
1_Lzard


Posts: 528
Joined: 8/18/2010
From: McMinnville, OR
Status: offline 		The 'Dancing Bananas" occur on this site: http://forums.gamesquad.com/forumdisplay.php?10-The-Operational-Art-of-War which is probably why your not finding them here, LOL!

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Post #: 53
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/9/2011 2:13:21 AM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks Lizard - seems there was another site, not sure if it was the Blitz or the Wargamer, don't remember now - but quite  a few of us were active there in 2004.

Anyways - think I released the file prematurely.  An errata page is up on the blog.  Some events were broken when I did the axis customization.  Files can still be downloaded - each night will add the latest.

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Post #: 54
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/9/2011 8:07:32 AM   
1_Lzard


Posts: 528
Joined: 8/18/2010
From: McMinnville, OR
Status: offline 		Finestkind, Mark.....I've looked things over, looks good (sans the events, evidently)........

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Post #: 55
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/9/2011 7:45:56 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		What worries me is the the fact that in the end phase of the scenario the air forces of the allies/soviets will work together.
I just see it in the Götterdämmerungs scenario, I usually don't get much done even if I attack weak enemy ground units because of the overwhelming airpower that is combined in such situations.
Can anything done to prevent this here?

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Post #: 56
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/9/2011 8:11:48 PM   
samba_liten


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		Should it be prevented? From my reading that's pretty much what happened. Not much fun in game terms though.

Edit: Admittedly, they did not cooperate over the same battlefield, but with the time scale in toaw, in most cases i think that can be overlooked.

< Message edited by polarenper -- 8/9/2011 8:47:12 PM >

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Post #: 57
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/9/2011 8:48:28 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		Good point.

Formation Cooperation Level is about the only thing that can be done design-wise that will prevent "full cooperation" between West/East Front air units when it comes to planned attacks. That doesn't have an impact on air units randomly assigned to an attack or for interdiction.

What can be said though is that the United States did bomb Ploesti in Romania, Sofia in Bulgaria. The USAAF Fifteenth Corps conducted about 20,000 sorties in the Balkans region in 1944. Ultimately the air units will be striking "somewhere" - which is not much of defense of how it works or should work. However, bomber range and fighter range do play into it starting from 1942. An Allied player putting bombers too close to the front and so having a range covering most of Europe" could be made to paid a very heavy price by an Axis player that knows how to use CAP - at least when it comes to Interdiction. Combat support is more problematic, but there the question is whether the Axis player is concentrating air power or distributing it. Is more case by case, but concentrated fighter coverage in support of an offensive can also put a hurt on enemy air units flying outside of areas where they have air superiority.

And one point is that a lot of the west's heavy bombers were not allocated to combat support, or even interdiction, but to the bombing and suppression of industry. With that goes a number of fighter escorts and interceptors for the Axis. The solutions are either to try modeling factories to give incentive for these missions to be flown; removing the associated units from play and implementing it all in an abstract fashion; or as I've chosen "for now" to not model it.

Both sides get what they'd normally have, some factor disruption is implemented via TO disbands, and whatever is destroyed by aircraft through combat can be regarded "more or less" as what they would have taken out if they hit the factories. Not the best solution, but that's the solution for now.

Ultimately though, it comes down to how both sides play it out. As the scenario starts in 1942, the Axis have a chance to try to prevent the historical 1944 from happening.

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Post #: 58
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/9/2011 11:07:56 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Should it be prevented? From my reading that's pretty much what happened. Not much fun in game terms though.

Edit: Admittedly, they did not cooperate over the same battlefield, but with the time scale in toaw, in most cases i think that can be overlooked.


Ah, looks like we were responding at the same time. You're in Kiev - think I know you from expatUA? Right on!

Formation cooperation is the main issue. I'm trying to find the furthest point east that US/English bombers hit. I'm inclined to think that the Soviet Air Force is probably not going to need any help from the English/US in 1944; and vice versa. On that score it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Not sure how balanced the scenario is at this point,

VP Breakout:

France/England, Lowlands & Norway: 220 VP
North Africa, Middle East, Italy, Greece and Med. Islands: 220 VP
Balkans: 130 VP
Russia: 215 VP
Germany: 505 VP

Axis start with a Significant Victory at 670 VP of 1260; holding objectives worth 965 VP and 295 VP held by Allies.

VP modifiers include:
* 25 VP for Allies if they manage to take Kharkov by Turn 4 - 6 (variable)
* 25 VP ea if Axis takes Leningrad, Moscow or Stalingrad (additional effects apply)
* 15 VP if Axis take Suez.
* Typically 10 VP for Allies for each country that surrenders 3 - 6 turns earlier than historical.
* 5 VP for Axis with destruction of the Tito Partisan unit.
* 35% chance each turn for Axis to score 1 VP each turn that the V-1 Rocket unit manages to survive.
* 35% chance each turn for Axis to score 2 VP each turn that the V-2 Rocket unit manages to survive.

-- Both V-1/2 units are in fixed positions. They arrive as per historical timelines in the primary areas that they were historically operated. Kept this as simple as possible and mainly to add a bit of flavor.

Consideration is being given to awarding 3 - 5 VP for each "Mobile Supply Unit" (Army Group/Front HQ) eliminated.

Casualty VP's are roughly at 25% usual for Axis and 35% usual for Allies.

Anyways, hope to have all events tested and confirmed as working by the end of this week. Still a bit of work to do for the supplemental materials.

(in reply to samba_liten)
Post #: 59
RE: East & West Front 1942-1945 scenario - 8/14/2011 11:37:56 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		http://www.wargamecollege.net/Third Reich 42-45-Aug15.zip

Five tests later, all events are firing and working as intended. There may still be some errors here and there, but they should be minor. Much thanks to Stefan for his help with the Event Engine, two of the event sequences are 19 events each and apply to a much more realistic situation with Axis recovery of oil from the Caucasus.

No more changes are going to be applied to ANY of the scenario files for at least a month - to give time for additional errata and ideas for additional events to come in. PO versions will be waiting until 3.5 comes out.

In the meantime, work will continue on a comprehensive scenario guidebook and some supplemental materials to make turn to turn management a bit easier.

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Post #: 60
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