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armored group template - 8/20/2011 4:10:57 AM   
billd

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 7/27/2011
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

I'm trying to design an armored group template. Here's what I have so far.

1 x HQ (not sure how many staff/trucks I need yet)

2 x tank div (each div: 1 arm car, 3 tanks, 1 h/track, 2 flak, 11 rifle, 5 mg's = 55 stack)

2 x arm inf div (each div: 21 rifle, 5 mtr, 4 mg, 2 h'tracks, 2 assualt gun, 2 flak = 54 stack)

2 x anti-tank div (each div: 3 AT gun, 5 bazooka, 5 mg, 23 rifle, 3 h/track, 1 flak = 50 stack)

1 x eng div (33 engineer, 10 rifle, 5 mg, 1 flak, 3 truck = 50 stack)

1 x training div (to feed recruits into to gain exp before being transfered into units)

1 x smg div (50 or 60 odd smg so I can replace inf in arm inf divisions depending on terrain)

Lots of vehicles equals high oil usage but this force would only be used in non winter and non mud months anyway. What do you think? What would you change?
Post #: 1
RE: armored group template - 8/20/2011 12:51:46 PM   
82ndtrooper


Posts: 1083
Joined: 12/19/2008
From: tennessee
Status: offline 		looks pretty solid to me
I dont waste units mixing with a engineer div though because I keep them away from the fighting.
and I use more motors because they seldom die so I think they are a good investment.

but all in all those look like a good balanced unit mix.


_____________________________

HHC 302nd Engineer Battalion
82nd Airborne Division
Honorably Discharged Jul/80

(in reply to billd)
Post #: 2
RE: armored group template - 8/20/2011 2:14:31 PM   
Strategiusz


Posts: 236
Joined: 9/13/2008
From: Upper Silesia, Poland
Status: offline 		Are you doing a scenario? Because in a real random game such things do not make sense. It is not just about your template, but all predefined.

I have only a few rules:

  • artillery as a separate units (+transport)
  • engineers as a separate units (+ optional transport)
  • defensive weapon (MG, AT etc.) as a separate units (+ optional transport)
  • armored vehicles + some of infantry (just enough to not slowed down) as a separate units


< Message edited by Madlok -- 6/15/2012 3:01:58 PM >

(in reply to 82ndtrooper)
Post #: 3
RE: armored group template - 8/20/2011 3:31:51 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Yup, looking fine to me too. Except that I do have some things to say

The HQ (of an Armygroup) covers 7 hexes with 100 HQ bonus, each hex more distance to that HQ will diminish that HQ bonus with 20%, so add another three hexes on both sides of that HQ makes 7+6= about 13 hexes. So a HQ can cover about 13 hexes with it's HQ bonus. If you want to create a frontline with units that can sustain an offense (say all the armour and artillery and so on) you need about 200-250 staff in that HQ to make it 100%. Ofcourse you can make the HQ smaller, which I often do on quiter parts of the gamemap.

Like 82ndtrooper I keep my Engineers in separate units, Flak guns too. I tend to make Flak units of 10, give them some horses, or whatever, and keep them in the middle of my units, just behind the frontline. I did notice however in my last random game, where I had a very long and tough battle in jungle/forest, that Flak can be quite deadly Tank-killers in dense terrain. I tried to nail the AI lighttanks with lots of Submachineguns/bazookas/AT guns, but it still cost me a lot of Inf. Then I added some Flak guns and whaddyaknow? They die much faster than without Flak guns.

I do give my armoured units like 10 Inf extra to give them some extra protection against Inf units, and some extra recon. I usually make recon units, 4-6-8 recon armoured cars, great for encirclement, and for uhm, recon.  ( damn, wish there were more recon variants, they were used widely after all)

That armoured group HQ you described can only cover three hexes or so. It's made of 7 units (not counting the engineers and training unit) and you can place two units in one hex to maximize the punch you can have from attacking from one hex (hmm, that was a bad sentence.. LOL), I mean to say, you can attack with 100 points from one hex (or two hexes) without stacking penalty. So that HQ can only cover a very small portion of the front, in case of tough resistance that is. If it's only recon in force then you can spread your forces more easily. The AI, and certainly a human opponent will make use of holes in your front though. But that's my experience, and way of playing. Yours may vary ofcourse.

(in reply to Strategiusz)
Post #: 4
RE: armored group template - 8/20/2011 4:52:51 PM   
Strategiusz


Posts: 236
Joined: 9/13/2008
From: Upper Silesia, Poland
Status: offline 		Front line without penalty (you know "not full bonus":P) is:
7 hexes - if HQ is directly on the front line (not recommended)
6 hexes - if HQ is 1 hex behind
5 hexes - if HQ is 2 hexes behind

I mean this for example


< Message edited by Madlok -- 8/20/2011 5:05:06 PM >

(in reply to Josh)
Post #: 5
RE: armored group template - 8/21/2011 1:34:24 AM   
billd

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 7/27/2011
Status: offline 		Positioning of the HQ is very interesting (in terms of front size), I hadn't thought much about that. Also because my idea for this force was to 1. punch through front-line and 2. go HQ hunting with these mobile units. Taking out a HQ would lead to my opponents whole front collapsing due to the readiness drop. This is a small force frontsize-wize but if it were any bigger I think fuel consumption would be an issue. I want these units' movement to be limited by AP not fuel.

I've built this force in a game against the AI. I constructed the units separately under their respective HQ's, then, when they're battle hardened and the HQ was trained up I brought these units together to be an elite force. That's why I like having a good unit unit mix (e.g. defensive SFT's in offensive units) because I want to protect my elites :) I think 4 flak guns have the same antitank firepower as 1 AT gun so I like to have flak guns in frontline units. Why not take advantage of their slight duel role and they're only 2 battlestack points each.

Simplifying that engineer division sounds good. I have been guilty of defending with engineers before :)

Just a fun force to use in my games against AI.

Cheers

(in reply to Strategiusz)
Post #: 6
RE: armored group template - 8/22/2011 7:06:08 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Just posted a ATG college lesson on motorization on www.vrdesigns.nl

best regards,
Vic


_____________________________

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics

(in reply to billd)
Post #: 7
RE: armored group template - 8/22/2011 9:02:53 PM   
Keunert


Posts: 886
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		so any news when we will get any news about the second dc title?
thanks for the new at g college!

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 8
RE: armored group template - 8/22/2011 9:24:21 PM   
Warspite3

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		When I had an oil shortage in a random map game I was playing, I found deploying a lot of gun pieces helped me stand my ground. I had several battalions and each one was made up of these gun units... 10 x Inf Guns and 10 x AT Guns. It kept infantry groups away with ranged fire from the Inf Guns and I was able to hold my ground against armored units with the AT guns in the mix. Some battalions, in addition to the gun pieces I would throw in anywhere between 20 to 40 riflemen for cannon fodder. Seemed to put up a strong defensive force and I was even able to advance as well. Although these were slow moving battalions, they helped create a solid front. One strategy woul dbe when the enemy is weakened down to start reinforcing these battalions with horses and then take to the offensive!

(in reply to Keunert)
Post #: 9
RE: armored group template - 9/26/2011 11:11:05 PM   
phatkarp


Posts: 131
Joined: 4/14/2011
Status: offline 		In some 1v1 PBEM games my first 2 factories are gun factories, precisely because they don't use oil.

I never used to mix flak into my combat units, but recent experience is making me rethink that.  In another PBEM game I'm in, my spearhead was held in check by 3 stubborn flak guns that held in their for 6 combat rounds after the rest of the defenders had been routed. 

I really like the Armored Group the OP posted. 

(in reply to Warspite3)
Post #: 10
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